If we can go back to the 8 players who weren't duped, I'd say there must be solid evidence that proves they didn't take a banned substance. Why can't the other players prove this? By extension; they took something and if they cannot prove what, then they are guilty.

The only issue is that if the players drug programs had any tailoring to them it's about proving which players had the bad injections because they know banned substances where at the club

If we can go back to the 8 players who weren't duped, I'd say there must be solid evidence that proves they didn't take a banned substance. Why can't the other players prove this? By extension; they took something and if they cannot prove what, then they are guilty.

It's also possible that the eight players were in the program but they couldn't provide the substances they took included tb4

It's also possible that the eight players were in the program but they couldn't provide the substances they took included tb4

No, it's more likely they didn't sign the waiver.

No, it's more likely they didn't sign the waiver.

which says to me they certainly know more than they let on to and it cant be all happy families at Windy Hill despite their propaganda.

The crack cant hold forever.

Wonder if ASADA will immediately send him an infraction notice if he decides not to appeal

Wonder if ASADA will immediately send him an infraction notice if he decides not to appeal

ASADA/WADA may get him, but if they don't, Workcover certainly will, and the criminal penalties from them will be so much more severe. And appropriately so too.

"It's been very disappointing what's happened the last two years and the way our football club has been treated.

Is he kidding? Your club brought this on itself you moron. No one else did this program. My god take the blinkers off and accept some responsibility.

James Hird has been very disappointing for at least the past two years ...

No, it's more likely they didn't sign the waiver.

Good point. This prob also means that the waivers are acritical part of the prosecution case. That is they are highly incriminating as we suspect and that players knew what they were being given. Little chance they can claim they were duped.

The only issue is that if the players drug programs had any tailoring to them it's about proving which players had the bad injections because they know banned substances where at the club

A tailored program with no records, yeah right.

I have a confession to make: I'm fascinated by the 'Sorry Saga' thread on Bomberblitz. You have to join the site to read it (or even see it listed), which doesn't feel right, but for some reason it's captured my attention. It's entertaining to read that thread and then to return to D'land to read this thread.

A few points of contrast with D'land:

1. Bomberblitz is convinced that the media is against EFC. Chip LG seems to be the one exception.

2. 'Stand by Hird' is still a very strong sentiment. I don't think that MFC has ever had anyone that supporters would unconditionally back like HIrd.

3. Most are convinced that the players will be cleared, though there is a growing number who think that a conspiracy will result in bans (ASADA, AFL, other clubs, Federal Gov't, media, courts, etc)

4. Little and Hird are often presented as a united front.

These are my reading of the consensus, so not comprehensive. However, it's striking how consistent Bomberblitz can be.

I have a confession to make: I'm fascinated by the 'Sorry Saga' thread on Bomberblitz. You have to join the site to read it (or even see it listed), which doesn't feel right, but for some reason it's captured my attention. It's entertaining to read that thread and then to return to D'land to read this thread.

A few points of contrast with D'land:

1. Bomberblitz is convinced that the media is against EFC. Chip LG seems to be the one exception.

2. 'Stand by Hird' is still a very strong sentiment. I don't think that MFC has ever had anyone that supporters would unconditionally back like HIrd.

3. Most are convinced that the players will be cleared, though there is a growing number who think that a conspiracy will result in bans (ASADA, AFL, other clubs, Federal Gov't, media, courts, etc)

4. Little and Hird are often presented as a united front.

These are my reading of the consensus, so not comprehensive. However, it's striking how consistent Bomberblitz can be.

There are a lot of nut cases on there who make even the most extreme Demonlander look rational. I don't think I'd have the stomach to go there if there are bans.

I have a confession to make: I'm fascinated by the 'Sorry Saga' thread on Bomberblitz. You have to join the site to read it (or even see it listed), which doesn't feel right, but for some reason it's captured my attention. It's entertaining to read that thread and then to return to D'land to read this thread.

A few points of contrast with D'land:

1. Bomberblitz is convinced that the media is against EFC. Chip LG seems to be the one exception.

2. 'Stand by Hird' is still a very strong sentiment. I don't think that MFC has ever had anyone that supporters would unconditionally back like HIrd.

3. Most are convinced that the players will be cleared, though there is a growing number who think that a conspiracy will result in bans (ASADA, AFL, other clubs, Federal Gov't, media, courts, etc)

4. Little and Hird are often presented as a united front.

These are my reading of the consensus, so not comprehensive. However, it's striking how consistent Bomberblitz can be.

I think it would be Robbie, but he never had the ego or stupidity of Hird so it wouldn't have happened.

The media AGAINST the Bombers !!!! Pfft.

Pretty funny

There are a lot of nut cases on there who make even the most extreme Demonlander look rational. I don't think I'd have the stomach to go there if there are bans.

Blitz has its share of nuts but it also has a few eloquent writers and the other threads have quite a variety of discussion. I think one of the really interesting features of Blitz is that posters who would otherwise appear to be intelligent are adamant that the players haven't done anything wrong and that Hird has conducted himself in an admirable manner.

I'll be interested in the response on Blitz to the tribunal's decision, regardless of the result.

Blitz has its share of nuts but it also has a few eloquent writers and the other threads have quite a variety of discussion. I think one of the really interesting features of Blitz is that posters who would otherwise appear to be intelligent are adamant that the players haven't done anything wrong and that Hird has conducted himself in an admirable manner.

I'll be interested in the response on Blitz to the tribunal's decision, regardless of the result.

Not so much from the readings of Blitz..as im not registered to do so... but just in general lide I also run up against this strange contradiction, that being otherwise intelligent folk lacking clear understanding of the situation. My own step son...very clever..very successful and normally a sound thinker just doesnt grapple with the reality and facts of the situation at all. We dont talk about this but do otherwise about footy.

We're supposed to be going to the NAB game...we'll see..lol

Have followed this thread with interest. Thanks for everyone who has contributed.

I am coming to a conclusion without being able to reference all who have provided detail to lead me to it that there is definitely guilt.

The program was conducted records have mysteriously disappeared.

ASADA and WADA are bigger than the AFL which has tried to remove the problem telling Essendon to stop and fining them.

Hird and Little actions bought time to satisfy AFL but has inflamed ASADA

The difficulty of this first revealed offence in AFL has huge ramifications for the total competition which AFL knew

scapegoats will be needed to satisfy WADA

DAnks gets banned for life.

Hird gets banned for life

DR gets banned from sport for life

Little and EFC board banned and removed.

Players who have left get 2 years

Watson forfeits brownlow

Watson and Fletcher 12 months from International game

players still listed get 12 months from when notices issued free to play after 4 rounds

EFC disbanded Workcover claims against Little and other legal entities

New Tassie bombers emerges from the wreckage to take their place in the AFL competition.

Will be interested to see if any of those are even close to the mark

New Tassie bombers emerges from the wreckage to take their place in the AFL competition.

Hang on, what have we (Tassie) done wrong?

Not so much from the readings of Blitz..as im not registered to do so... but just in general lide I also run up against this strange contradiction, that being otherwise intelligent folk lacking clear understanding of the situation. My own step son...very clever..very successful and normally a sound thinker just doesnt grapple with the reality and facts of the situation at all. We dont talk about this but do otherwise about footy.

We're supposed to be going to the NAB game...we'll see..lol

Sounds like one of my best friends. Very intelligent, very successful. Calm and level-headed. I regularly call on his advice and support. We have gone to many EFC-MFC games and he is a good sport: he can cope with me if MFC win and he's fine to be around if EFC win.

But this situation...

Sounds like one of my best friends. Very intelligent, very successful. Calm and level-headed. I regularly call on his advice and support. We have gone to many EFC-MFC games and he is a good sport: he can cope with me if MFC win and he's fine to be around if EFC win.

But this situation...

Am I the only one who knows an EFC supporter who is walking away from supporting them (at least over the drugs, I expect he'll be back eventually)? Sounds like it.

Am I the only one who knows an EFC supporter who is walking away from supporting them (at least over the drugs, I expect he'll be back eventually)? Sounds like it.

I know one that has given them away and is supporting Port now, he really hates what the EFC have done.

...a couple of others won't give the club money. They think the club have wasted money on appeals and Hird and they are disappointed with how things have been handled.

I think it would be Robbie, but he never had the ego or stupidity of Hird so it wouldn't have happened.

Incidentally, I've read on Bomberblitz a few times that this is EFC's 'Norm Smith moment'.

The suggestion is that sacking HIrd would be as much a travesty as Smith's sacking and that it would have the same effect on EFC's future that Smith's sacking had on MFC. I've even seen the phrase 'Hird curse' used as a potential mirror of our own Norm Smith curse.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-02-27/hird-ends-legal-fight

Things about to get real interesting

Still running the line "we believe it was an illegal investigation" even though the a Magistrate and the Court of Appeal not only disagreed but smashed him.for a six for wasting the courts time. Take your medicine Hirdy and front up to the disgrace you've helped bring on the club.

Can you imagine what the reaction to this whole saga would've been not just from theedia but the EFC supporters of this had not happened under Hird but had happened under his predecessor Matty Knights? I think the reaction from all angles would've been VASTLY different and he would've been sacked if not immediately then at least when the penalties were handed down in August 2013.

It's implausible. The club monitors the number of farts players do.

They paid $500-700k for this supplements regime and you think they weren't going to keep records and monitor it? Bulltish. If there are no records then on the balance of probabilities the club is in deep trouble. So are the players.

That is what seals their fate in my eyes. What's the point of the program if they can't even monitor it to test their results? How were they keeping track of who had been given what? Clubs record every single thing about players these days, skinfolds, diet, time trials, weights etc are we to believe they implemented a "cutting edge" "supplements" program and didn't bother to keep a single record of what they were using and which player had received what, at what dosages and frequencies? It is so implausible that if I were the AFL and particularly ASADA I would be absolutely furious at the temerity of the club and players and wouldn't think it would qualify for a reduction on the basis they "assisted" with the investigation nevermind anything else.

Whatever verdict is handed down, one party or other will appeal all the way to the CAS.

Asada wont settle for less than 18 months and essendon wont settle for anything more than not guilty.

There wont be any sackings until after the CAS has done its work.

Incidentally, I've read on Bomberblitz a few times that this is EFC's 'Norm Smith moment'.

The suggestion is that sacking HIrd would be as much a travesty as Smith's sacking and that it would have the same effect on EFC's future that Smith's sacking had on MFC. I've even seen the phrase 'Hird curse' used as a potential mirror of our own Norm Smith curse.

I would say they should change their phrasing and say Hird is a curse on the club...

Am I the only one who knows an EFC supporter who is walking away from supporting them (at least over the drugs, I expect he'll be back eventually)? Sounds like it.

Nah, I know two...