It seems that there will be some changes to the leadership group for next season.

I expect players like Lumumba, Vince and, possibly, Watts and T McDonald will be in the mix.

I expect Garland might be at risk and, as we all know, Chip Frawley has left the building.

Nathan Jones seems to be a lock for Captain.

Dawes for Vice? I expect Grimes would still be in the mix. He's just so professional, articulate and dedicated to the club.

I'd be interested in people's views on this.

I think Grimes will be relieved of all leadership group duties, to lessen what he has on his plate.

Like many supporters, I think he's concerned with being able to salvage his career.

I agree, Garland also to take a step back and refind form.

Dawes wants the leadership responsibility and can manage it, so I'd like him as vice.

Would be happy to see Cross in there.

Potentially too early for Lumumba, but I wouldn't mind.

I think Jack trengove should step back from the leadership group this year and just focus on playing

you can hardly say he'd add much leadership if he isn't even able to play a game

I can't even recall who was in the leadership group up to this point.

Anyone know the exact members?

Jones captain, Dawes vice. Leadership group comprising of Viney, Lamumba, Cross, Garland and Dunn.

  On 06/12/2014 at 01:16, Machsy said:

I can't even recall who was in the leadership group up to this point.

Anyone know the exact members?

Was a six man LG: Jones, Grimes, Clark (lol), Garlo, Trengove, Frawley.

Of that lot I would only retain Jones.

2015: Jones ©, Dunn (VC), Cross, Dawes, Vince, Viney

I'd have players who lead by example and these are the ones who meet that description.

Obviously Viney's name is the one that sticks out and many will disagree.

I personally don't think we should be too gun shy about placing him in the LG just because of past traumas in placing leadership honours on the shoulders of younger players. He screams leadership material moreso than anyone else on the list. He's someone to admire and follow into battle, and the fact he will be 21 doesn't alter that. Ziebell is vice captain at North and he's 23. I think he was elected to the LG at 20. If you've got it, you've got it.

I'm certainly not advocating him being anything more than part of the leadership group, but this fella is a future captain of the MFC. We all know it. I'd have no problem with starting to mould him, but similarly I would understand if I'm in the minority based on past experiences.

One of the prerequisites a player MUST have to be in the LG is the ability to lead out on the field. You can be the best public speaker in the world but if the example you set on game day isn't up to scratch, a leader you are not. Viney has leadership in spades.

  On 06/12/2014 at 01:35, P-man said:

Was a six man LG: Jones, Grimes, Clark (lol), Garlo, Trengove, Frawley.

Of that lot I would only retain Jones.

2015: Jones ©, Dunn (VC), Cross, Dawes, Vince, Viney

I'd have players who lead by example and these are the ones who meet that description.

Obviously Viney's name is the one that sticks out and many will disagree.

I personally don't think we should be too gun shy about placing him in the LG just because of past traumas in placing leadership honours on the shoulders of younger players. He screams leadership material moreso than anyone else on the list. He's someone to admire and follow into battle, and the fact he will be 21 doesn't alter that. Ziebell is vice captain at North and he's 23. I think he was elected to the LG at 20. If you've got it, you've got it.

I'm certainly not advocating him being anything more than part of the leadership group, but this fella is a future captain of the MFC. We all know it. I'd have no problem with starting to mould him, but similarly I would understand if I'm in the minority based on past experiences.

Yep, I disagree. He's way to young at the moment 'P-man' and we finally have some players in the mid to late 20's more than capable of taking the role.

  On 06/12/2014 at 01:44, rjay said:

Yep, I disagree. He's way to young at the moment 'P-man' and we finally have some players in the mid to late 20's more than capable of taking the role.

I had a feeling you would

  On 06/12/2014 at 01:15, Neitz the Great said:

I think Jack trengove should step back from the leadership group this year and just focus on playing

you can hardly say he'd add much leadership if he isn't even able to play a game

I can't see Trenners being even considered for the leadership group. Maybe the leader of the rehab group!

It's unlikely he'll factor in 2015 in a playing capacity and even if he does it will just be to get some playing fitness into him right at the end of the year.

Lumumba will probably put his hand up, I can see Dawes and Dunn being co-VC.

I'd be keeping leadership away from Watts, he's a good bloke and on the training track he hits it hard but he's not an on-field leader. Not yet at least. Viney oozes it but he's young, give him another year or two to focus on his game.

C: Jones

Co-VC: Dawes & Dunn

Group: Lumumba, Cross, Garland and/or Grimes

(Smokey) Tommy Mac, he's younger and looks to be a long term player. Just needs to work on his kicking and a bit of decision making,

Captain: N.Jones

Vice: Dunn

Leaders: lamumba, dawes, grimes, garland, McDonald

Dunny's come a long way........IF he becomes VC as some suggest.

I say, good on him - he's stood up and works hard.

  On 06/12/2014 at 01:50, P-man said:

I had a feeling you would

We have to learn our lessons 'P-man', surely Trengove and Grimes have shown the dangers of placing too much responsibility on a kid when he is yet to establish himself.

  On 06/12/2014 at 02:17, rjay said:

We have to learn our lessons 'P-man', surely Trengove and Grimes have shown the dangers of placing too much responsibility on a kid when he is yet to establish himself.

Already addressed this but to elaborate further:

1. Being promoted to LG is not the same as being made captain

2. Trengove (and Grimes) was not simply a poor decison because of age, but also timing. The club was a cultural black hole and it placed responsibility for steering out of it on a kid. Viney has some genuine seniority around him in the LG at a time when the culture is starting to solidify

3. if being in the top five players for disposals and tackles isn't "established", I don't know what is.

We have various players who are good at one or more: professionalism, good speaker, train the house down, play hard and tough.

But we desperately need on-field leaders that can help: manage the game plan/positions during a game, control game tempo, motivate when the chips are down, etc. IMO, we don't have players with such skills. Next best bases for selection is experience and maturity, IMO. So for mine: Co-Capts: Jones, Lumumba. Leadership: Grimes, Dawes, Cross, maybe Dunne.

Omissions:

Garland - needs to focus on his game/fitness; yet to show leadership abilities.

Vince - have doubts about maturity.

Various younger players - let them enjoy the game, play as best they can, consolidate positions and learn leadership skills from the leaders. No need to burden them with such responsibility when barely out of their teens.

Anyone know if the Club has 'Leadership' training. If so send Viney, Big Mac, Brayshaw, Tyson, Toumpas, Salem etc. They are our premiership leadershp team. If the Club doesn't have such training - maybe its time to get it.

I must admit Lucifer, there is something I really don't like about the idea of Lumumba being made a co-captain. His speech at the B&F didn't sit well for me, and he's shown himself to be a distraction at times at the pies. I think there's merit to him being in the LG but beyond that no more for this year at the very least.

Just to what P-man was saying on Viney. Your points are well made and you're right that age shouldn't disqualify him totally. But there's still much he's learning about the his game and has suspect disposal at times. It's inevitable that he'll get there eventually, for me there's no need to rush it, especially give Roos' stance that the young brigade shouldn't be seen as messiahs.

For me...

C: Jones

VC: Dawes

LG: Cross, Dunn, Tyson, McDonald

Maybe Lumumba, but maybe too early.

I'd be against Dunn being in the leadership group as I don't believe leaders go around taking cheap shots at team mates during training.

But what this discussion does show is that we have few natural mature leaders and that is a worry for such a young group. I'm firmly in the camp of not promoting young players and think someone like McKenzie may be considered. He's borderline 22 but if he spent most of the year at Casey that might not be such a bad thing. He's also highly respected, a very hard worker, pedantic in his preparation and recovery and if the leadership did impact him it's not as bad as impacting Tyson or Tommy Mac.

I doubt Garland will be omitted and think Cross and Dawes will join it. But really there aren't too many good choices, from the outside anyway.

  On 06/12/2014 at 02:28, P-man said:

Already addressed this but to elaborate further:

1. Being promoted to LG is not the same as being made captain

2. Trengove (and Grimes) was not simply a poor decison because of age, but also timing. The club was a cultural black hole and it placed responsibility for steering out of it on a kid. Viney has some genuine seniority around him in the LG at a time when the culture is starting to solidify

3. if being in the top five players for disposals and tackles isn't "established", I don't know what is.

He's not 21 yet 'P-man' give it a break. Would be a shocking decision and isn't going to happen.

Let the genuine seniority around him be in the leadership group and let him establish himself as an AFL player. He has a lot of work to do on his game despite your stats...

Jones as captain and Dunn as vise.

The only reason Dunn gets in as vise ahead of Vince or Dawes is because he has played his entire career at the Dees, it shouldn't be granted to a player who has only been on the list for a couple of seasons.

To fill out the rest of the LG would be

Jones C

Dunn VC

Vince

Dawes

Cross

I wouldnt but Viney in until Coss retires and becomes a development coach just because I can't see Roos letting him in until his fully developed his game.

  On 06/12/2014 at 03:04, rjay said:

He's not 21 yet 'P-man' give it a break. Would be a shocking decision and isn't going to happen.

Let the genuine seniority around him be in the leadership group and let him establish himself as an AFL player. He has a lot of work to do on his game despite your stats...

Of course he has a lot of work to do on his game, but it's silly to suggest he hasn't established himself when you look at his numbers. He's comfortably inside the first 10 players picked.

Having young leaders at a club isn't always a bad thing. Ziebell is just one example of which there are several. We made it a bad thing, like we did with just about every other facet of football.

You're probably right about the likelihood of it happening because of the sensitivity around it. I'd be surprised if his name wasn't part of the discussion though.

I definitely think we should leave anyone under 23 out of the leadership group. That's not saying they aren't capable, it's just better for their development.

For me it should be:

C- Jones

VC- Dawes and Dunn

Leadership group- Lumumba, Vince, Cross

That should be enough, maybe add Grimes and Garland if not.

  On 06/12/2014 at 01:11, Machsy said:

I think Grimes will be relieved of all leadership group duties, to lessen what he has on his plate.

Like many supporters, I think he's concerned with being able to salvage his career.

I agree, Garland also to take a step back and refind form.

Dawes wants the leadership responsibility and can manage it, so I'd like him as vice.

Would be happy to see Cross in there.

Potentially too early for Lumumba, but I wouldn't mind.

I had to read that twice to make sure I got it right, that's hilarious, I spoke to him, he feels that his form has been inconsistent (not alone) and he needs to put himself first to enable him to fulfil his potential, sounds like Roos had some input

  On 06/12/2014 at 02:56, Baghdad Bob said:

I'd be against Dunn being in the leadership group as I don't believe leaders go around taking cheap shots at team mates during training.

But what this discussion does show is that we have few natural mature leaders and that is a worry for such a young group. I'm firmly in the camp of not promoting young players and think someone like McKenzie may be considered. He's borderline 22 but if he spent most of the year at Casey that might not be such a bad thing. He's also highly respected, a very hard worker, pedantic in his preparation and recovery and if the leadership did impact him it's not as bad as impacting Tyson or Tommy Mac.

I doubt Garland will be omitted and think Cross and Dawes will join it. But really there aren't too many good choices, from the outside anyway.

Agree that the choices still aren't amazing when you step back and look at the current candidates. Hopefully they will be when we fast forward a few years.

I think labelling Dunn as a cheapshot thug is an outdated perception of a player who has come a long way in the past two years in terms of performance and and attitude. The reported boilover with Viney is not exactly a world first on a training track.

Not sure where you're coming from in your argument for McKenzie. He's barely even fringe 22, let alone best 22. Why would we pick a leader who by your own admission could be spending most of the year at Casey? Picking him as a precautionary measure because if it impacts his game the damage will be less is also strange reasoning for mine.