Howe - back or forward?

[nutbean 8,838]

Some really excellent points made for either side and he certainly saw a lot more action this year playing down back.

Although for me I hope to see him spend a bit more time in the forward line come 2015.

With the inclusion of Hogan alongside Dawes he will make a very nice 3rd or 4th option next as would Watts (and maybe Petracca if up to it) who are both capable of pushing up into the midfield. Garlett is also available to crumb at their feet.

With the new inclusions into the back line it should be close to locked down with Dunn, Garland, McDonald, Frost, Jetta, Grimes and Lumumba (creating run) and all rotating though.

I think our midfield can only improve as such youngsters like Tyson and Viney are likely to step it up another notch, so hopefully we see an improvement in the numbers and delivery inside our forward 50.

However on the basis Roos opts to place a spare man back, Howe should be the first named to play that floating role to pick off and intercept marks.

If Howe becomes a quality swing man, forward, back, doesn't matter, I'll be very happy.

What did surprise me is when we had games in the middle part of the year that were really close - a kick in it - I would have swung Howe forward. I thought he was more involved as a backman but we you only need 1 goal to win a game then throw Howe forward to try and take one hanger and kick one goal.

( interestingly - midway through season 2013 when he was playing forward I did notice numerous times that when a pack formed and Howe stood at the back of the pack ready to leap his opponent would scrag, block and basically impede his ability to jump at the ball. He can be easily shut down if he becomes a one trick pony)

[tilly18 289]

Next season will be about finding scorers.

I would play him forward and see if he can get at least 2 goals a game.

However I think with his versatility it will be about match ups.

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

I think Howe will stay down back, Dunn and Howe can both swing forward if needed

[Go the Biff 3,442]

I'd rather a defender punching rather than attempting to mark, than a defender that attempts to mark when he should punch.

That role is the only part of Rivers that I miss. He knew when to do either.

Your missing the point but Rivers is a good example of what I was trying to illustrate.

I can see Howe growing into the "Rivers" role. Perhaps being better. Maybe Garland at his best. But not Dunn for the reasons outlined

[Wormburner 674]

What did surprise me is when we had games in the middle part of the year that were really close - a kick in it - I would have swung Howe forward. I thought he was more involved as a backman but we you only need 1 goal to win a game then throw Howe forward to try and take one hanger and kick one goal.

( interestingly - midway through season 2013 when he was playing forward I did notice numerous times that when a pack formed and Howe stood at the back of the pack ready to leap his opponent would scrag, block and basically impede his ability to jump at the ball. He can be easily shut down if he becomes a one trick pony)

My thoughts exactly, his trademark grab is easily blocked and therefore shut down. Imo he obviously doesn't have this issue down back as the opponents forwards are obviously trying to mark/gain possession.

[titan_uranus 25,043]

that is a bit unfair, considering he has only had one year in his career in the backline i would say he did quite well for such a big change

there is ever reason to suggest he would only get better as a backman with more exposure there

however, i would prefer him mainly as a winger where it would be much harder for the opposition to double or triple man him in marking contests plus last year's experience in defensive play gives him an extra trick in his arsenal.

additionally, he could be thrown forward or back when/as required

Sorry, I should have written 'he wasn't that good at it' - i.e. I was trying to say he wasn't really setting the world on fire down there, which to me means I'm not fussed about taking him out of the backline to try to make him into a match-winning forward.

I think the wing could also work well, for the reasons you've suggested.

[Deeoldfart 8,061]

As a Melbourne supporter, the thing that really appeals to me is that we are even having this discussion. At this time last year, anyone who suggested Howe playing in defence would copped the full force of Demonland ridicule. Credit to Howie and the coaching staff.

[ILLDieADemon 804]

What did surprise me is when we had games in the middle part of the year that were really close - a kick in it - I would have swung Howe forward. I thought he was more involved as a backman but we you only need 1 goal to win a game then throw Howe forward to try and take one hanger and kick one goal.

( interestingly - midway through season 2013 when he was playing forward I did notice numerous times that when a pack formed and Howe stood at the back of the pack ready to leap his opponent would scrag, block and basically impede his ability to jump at the ball. He can be easily shut down if he becomes a one trick pony)

And that's why he is better down back because forwards aren't thinking of stopping him from taking hangers, plus he is always above the back to punch the ball if need be.

He is a one trick pony.

[Coup Cooper 610]

Not at all. He's been a terrific one on one defender. But he's not a sure mark - to the point he'll sometime go the double fist spoil rather than mark & drifting across the front of packs is not his go

Thats true. But its a safer bet, and more talk and time down back should see him learn to judge when and when not too punch better..

I've always thought, that the double fist happens because of the fact we are behind more often than infront.. And he would rather take the safe bet, if we start winning more, you watch him go for more marks..

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,939]

According to Tom McDonald, in an interview with Ralph, reckons Howe will be a defender again and a damn good one at that.

[The Chazz 4,077]

According to Tom McDonald, in an interview with Ralph...

You lost me at this point.

To be fair, I did read the article (thankfully I didn't know who wrote it otherwise I wouldn't have put my eyes through the pain).

Tom has shun the spotlight on JH for 2015. Could be a career defining season, so I will watch with anticipation.

[nutbean 8,838]

And that's why he is better down back because forwards aren't thinking of stopping him from taking hangers, plus he is always above the back to punch the ball if need be.

He is a one trick pony.

I think he is was in danger of becoming a one trick pony on the forward line and showed more versatility to his game when he went back into defense.

[Jarka 767]

According to Tom McDonald, in an interview with Ralph, reckons Howe will be a defender again and a damn good one at that.

Yep, saw that article, Tom McDonald stated that he'd be in the back line again, but this time he's going to train for it.

Something to look out for anyone heading down to training over the next couple of moths

[jnrmac 20,186]

Suits ROos down back. LAst year didn't know how to play the role - when to spoil, when to mark - but another year and he becomes a very valuable rebounding defender.

The problem down fwd is that it is too easy to impede his run at the ball and he then becomes almost a liability.

[Fat Tony 5,262]

I think Howe should be played in attack if they start paying more free kicks for blocking in the marking contest. But he is better in the backline if they maintain the same interpretation as 2014.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-football-boss-mark-evans-says-holding-the-ball-blocking-areas-of-focus-for-rule-changes/story-fni5f22o-1227136018059

[nutbean 8,838]

I think Howe should be played in attack if they start paying more free kicks for blocking in the marking contest. But he is better in the backline if they maintain the same interpretation as 2014.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-football-boss-mark-evans-says-holding-the-ball-blocking-areas-of-focus-for-rule-changes/story-fni5f22o-1227136018059

I watched the tactic used against him last year early on - especially during a slow kick to position - he wasn't just conventionally blocked - he was restrained from running at the pack from behind in almost a shepherding type of movement. It will always will be hard to stop him jumping if the ball gets in to him quickly but the slow build up into the forward line where a pack has formed makes it easy to counter him.

[Fat Tony 5,262]

I watched the tactic used against him last year early on - especially during a slow kick to position - he wasn't just conventionally blocked - he was restrained from running at the pack from behind in almost a shepherding type of movement. It will always will be hard to stop him jumping if the ball gets in to him quickly but the slow build up into the forward line where a pack has formed makes it easy to counter him.

We used similar tactics to get Howe as the lone flyer in marking contests in defence. It is a good tactic, but it is bad for the game.

[binman 43,762]

Back for mine. In 2013 he copped plenty on DL for being lazy and unaccountable up forward. Had a much better year in 2014.

As TMac notes will only improve his defensive skills with more time down back and if he does i think he can play a similar role to Gibson.

Also whlst his set shots are average his field kicking is generally pretty good - long and accurate, which is crucial for us coming out of the back half.

TMac sounded pretty unequivocal about him playing back.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Back for mine. In 2013 he copped plenty on DL for being lazy and unaccountable up forward. Had a much better year in 2014.

As TMac notes will only improve his defensive skills with more time down back and if he does i think he can play a similar role to Gibson.

Also whlst his set shots are average his field kicking is generally pretty good - long and accurate, which is crucial for us coming out of the back half.

TMac sounded pretty unequivocal about him playing back.

Too light for the "Gibson" role, and not enough smarts as a defender to play it either.

If he worked his bum off, he's best suited as a HFF. There are areas of his game that he needs to focus on to be a lock for that position, but I think it's a role that would suit him the best, and one that is most natural for him.

[binman 43,762]

Too light for the "Gibson" role, and not enough smarts as a defender to play it either.

If he worked his bum off, he's best suited as a HFF. There are areas of his game that he needs to focus on to be a lock for that position, but I think it's a role that would suit him the best, and one that is most natural for him.

I disagree, in so far as whilst he is good one on one Gibsons key skill is zoning off his man and coming over the top of packs and spoiling forwards, often with a big punch to the boundary. Howe can do the same but yes he he needs to develop his defensive smarts buts as TMac notes that is what the plan is as he has only had the year down back.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I disagree, in so far as whilst he is good one on one Gibsons key skill is zoning off his man and coming over the top of packs and spoiling forwards, often with a big punch to the boundary. Howe can do the same but yes he he needs to develop his defensive smarts buts as TMac notes that is what the plan is as he has only had the year down back.

It's the so called "easiest position on the oval". How long do you think is fair for him to learn the position/role? I'll give him until the end of the 2015 season. That'll be one full preseason and two entire seasons.

[nutbean 8,838]

It's the so called "easiest position on the oval". How long do you think is fair for him to learn the position/role? I'll give him until the end of the 2015 season. That'll be one full preseason and two entire seasons.

You make it sound like he was an abject failure as a backman this season. I don't think he was and I don't believe the coaching staff do either judging by his finish in the bluey. ( take into account that he was putrid before he was switched to the backline)

Edited December 8, 2014 by nutbean

[binman 43,762]

It's the so called "easiest position on the oval". How long do you think is fair for him to learn the position/role? I'll give him until the end of the 2015 season. That'll be one full preseason and two entire seasons.

Yep, that should be enough time. I'm not sure its an easy position in so far as it takes real skill and courage to zone off and great timing not to get caught out. Plus the decision to spoil or mark is fraught.

Gibson and Rivers are the two best at i reckon (with apologizes to the poster who says that sort of comment is superfluous ie i reckon, in my opinion etc, though in my opinion it is a useful qualifier and helps distinguish fact from opinion)

[picket fence 17,502]

Next season will be about finding scorers.

I would play him forward and see if he can get at least 2 goals a game.

However I think with his versatility it will be about match ups.

I agree next year lets start to put REAL pressure on opposition teams to match us up for once in a decade eh

Lets face it a forward 6 of say..

Petracca, Dawes, Kent

Howe, Hogan Garlett

is a much more daunting task for any team.

Howe has the X FACTOR no one beats him in the air and is unpredictable. With the other 5 plus perhaps combos of Watts, JKH, Salem et al hovering it gives our strike force some serious firepower

Add to this our now formidable new found goal kicking mids means we should be very optimistic about our team in 2015.

HOWE MUST PLAY FORWARD!

Edited December 8, 2014 by picket fence

[nutbean 8,838]

I agree next year lets start to put REAL pressure on opposition teams to match us up for once in a decade eh

Lets face it a forward 6 of say..

Petracca, Dawes, Kent

Howe, Hogan Garlett

is a much more daunting task for any team.

Howe has the X FACTOR no one beats him in the air and is unpredictable. With the other 5 plus perhaps combos of Watts, JKH, Salem et al hovering it gives our strike force some serious firepower

Add to this our now formidable new found goal kicking mids means we should be very optimistic about our team in 2015.

HOWE MUST PLAY FORWARD!

He continually got beaten in the air as a forward early in the season as he was blocked and shepherded from going for his marks. He also didn't work hard enough to lead up to take marks in front of his eyes so he become too predictable and an ineffective forward. The move back was good for him as it forced him to work harder. Whilst not a complete success, given more experience, I think his time back will make him more effective when he does get swung forward.