Dear OD, as you said in another post our thoughts are very much aligned on where the team is at...we are both realists! But I have some hope here and there. Could we have a positive word or two from you...about anyone...please...

Mckenzie is going to have a terrific season at Casey in 2015, big chance to win the B and F.

How is that?

Kent is absolutely starting 22 material! He has pace, aggression, knows where the sticks are and can lower his eyes for better options. A big pre-season and some improved fitness and he becomes one of our most dynamic players, who will become one of the first picked each week and a target for opposition clubs. I see him becoming a 40 goal a year mid, I ratehim very highly.

I interpreted this thread to be talking about the team in 2015 ie the best team in 2015, not the best team for round one ( there have been several treads for that).

I believe our star kids will be in the best team: Cross will be about to retire, Bail will be in the 2s (he is not in the same class as either Brayshaw or a fit Toumpas), and I believe Salem is a class above Kent.

Otherwise, why do we improve our list every year? By the second half of the year, all these kids will be flying. I have never said they should play round one, although I think Brayshaw might be a strong possibility to do so.

No, by the second half of the year the kids will be tired. Especially if they have played some AFL footy in the first half of the year.

Cross, Bail and Kent may have different roles to Salem, CP, and AB. In fact, they almost certainly would have.

They would have to be in great form to kick out those three players.

No, by the second half of the year the kids will be tired. Especially if they have played some AFL footy in the first half of the year.

Cross, Bail and Kent may have different roles to Salem, CP, and AB. In fact, they almost certainly would have.

They would have to be in great form to kick out those three players.

Well two of the three rpfc

I don't get why these teams exclude Brayshaw (all the pundits say he is ready to go and dominate) and Salem (who at last is fully fit. We forget what a wonderful player he was when he was fit). I would leave out cross and Kent for those two. They are both back ups IMHO. And I would play Toumpas (a class act when fit) for Bail (another backup).

I love your optimism - just struggling a little with your realism.

I can't remember reading once where the pundits had Brayshaw "dominating" so early.

Salem was not a "wonderful player" when he was fit - some nice cameo's yes from the first year player and hope to see more progress.

Toumpas a class act when fit - he has been underwhelming so far. I will not write him off and hope to see improvement but he ain't a class anything at this stage.

Talk is cheap

Lets see how he performs next season.

Ehhh, Old Dee, it is called Leadership. Something about getting the best out of your list. And very typically Paul,Roos. Thank God. Communication is vital in this this. It is most definitely NOT cheap talk!

No, by the second half of the year the kids will be tired. Especially if they have played some AFL footy in the first half of the year.

Cross, Bail and Kent may have different roles to Salem, CP, and AB. In fact, they almost certainly would have.

They would have to be in great form to kick out those three players.

I think it is more likely that, given our more sophisticated mentoring and management of our new recruits, that they are gradually moved up over the first half of the year, maybe playing no games at afl level over that period. When they are ready they will be launched into the ones, and once there will never leave. Hence my best team for next year includes our "young guns", and excludes those about to retire or be delisted .

JKH played Round 1 last year, and I would imagine that there would be one or two of the new boys who might get a run in the opening round.

But they're going to have to fight a bit harder for a place than JKH did.

Ehhh, Old Dee, it is called Leadership. Something about getting the best out of your list. And very typically Paul,Roos. Thank God. Communication is vital in this this. It is most definitely NOT cheap talk!

No Dees2014 at this point it is "talk" there are no games to play for another three months.

Until then it is talk

The action starts in three months time.

Then we will see if it is more.

No Dees2014 at this point it is "talk" there are no games to play for another three months.

Until then it is talk

The action starts in three months time.

Then we will see if it is more.

Had a think about this OD. The article and Roos' words were only about Jimmy T becoming a very good AFL player. On DL we (mostly) all acknowledge he can be this, if he can get fit (which according to Saty he is) and can gain personal confidence and self belief (and stops being hard on himself).

So, maybe 'talk is cheap' but what better way to build Jimmy's confidence than to publicly praise him to help build his self belief that he can excel in the AFL. I am sure Roos backs this up in the background by his support and encouragement. Remember Roos' is still undoing the damage of the harsh words he (and other) players (apparently) received from the previous coach. Yes, Jimmy's self belief will come from playing well...Roos is laying the foundations for that belief to grow.

IMO Roos doesn't seem the type to give praise gratuitously. Roos seems to know what buttons to push for each player to get the best from them. Publishing that article would have been a well thought out plan to develop Jimmy. The audience for this Roos 'talk' was probably Jimmy, more so than the rest of us, IMO

Well chosen words are a powerful thing.

Edited December 1, 201410 yr by Lucifer's Hero

JKH played Round 1 last year, and I would imagine that there would be one or two of the new boys who might get a run in the opening round.

But they're going to have to fight a bit harder for a place than JKH did.

Obviously it is very dependent on roles and injuries, but if we go into this year with a full squad JKH may not even play round one. Of the draft picks Petracca is the one i think most likely to get a start round one, not because he was a higher draft pick, but because of his explosive qualities meaning he could play effectively as a sub.

I would rather them spend some time in Casey and knock the door down though.

I thought the way the club handled Salem and JKH last year was terrific.......Sub and then a couple of full games then a few more games with Casey come back as the sub......I believe that this will happen again with the new boys next year as well.

Had a think about this OD. The article and Roos' words were only about Jimmy T becoming a very good AFL player. On DL we (mostly) all acknowledge he can be this, if he can get fit (which according to Saty he is) and can gain personal confidence and self belief (and stops being hard on himself).

So, maybe 'talk is cheap' but what better way to build Jimmy's confidence than to publicly praise him to help build his self belief that he can excel in the AFL. I am sure Roos backs this up in the background by his support and encouragement. Remember Roos' is still undoing the damage of the harsh words he (and other) players (apparently) received from the previous coach. Yes, Jimmy's self belief will come from playing well...Roos is laying the foundations for that belief to grow.

IMO Roos doesn't seem the type to give praise gratuitously. Roos seems to know what buttons to push for each player to get the best from them. Publishing that article would have been a well thought out plan to develop Jimmy. The audience for this Roos 'talk' was probably Jimmy, more so than the rest of us, IMO

Well chosen words are a powerful thing.

LH..what youre implying and what OD has said are not actually mutually exclusive.

Roos is definitely trying to work his magic on Toumpas, and he;ll need to. As OD rightly says its talk and talk is peanuts really but as you rightly suggest also , talk is possibly all we have to work with in that respect currently. So talk it is.

I have my doubts about the Toump and am happy to be wrong. Lets hope I am

LH..what youre implying and what OD has said are not actually mutually exclusive.

Roos is definitely trying to work his magic on Toumpas, and he;ll need to. As OD rightly says its talk and talk is peanuts really but as you rightly suggest also , talk is possibly all we have to work with in that respect currently. So talk it is.

I have my doubts about the Toump and am happy to be wrong. Lets hope I am

That is my position bb Thanks saved me three lines of typing that I am poor at.

In my opinion, one of the biggest questions that will need to be answered this year is where do we play Howe?

He did very well in the backline position, providing not only great defensive pressure through smothers and tackles but also his more natural skills marking and disposal were really useful back there. Yet if we have the luxury to move him forward we might have the possibility of looking a bit stronger in our forward half and giving multiple options with Dawes, Hogan, Pederson and even Watts meaning that there is less likely for the two defenders playing on Dawes which happened so often.

This will be important in the make up of the team, i think that initially he may start in the forward line with Grimes playing in the backline as they have some similar attributes (obviously Howe is a little more athletic and uses the ball a bit better) but i think Grimes is a more natural defender. If Grimes is not working in that role and spends more time playing as a tagger will we use Howe as a defender and then rely on the smaller/younger forwards to play (Salem, JKH).

Interesting prospect, i wouldnt mind two of the fella

Good to see we went for a defensive left footer today with Mitchell White, although given his age, there's very little chance he will play in 2015.

To me we urgently need a left-side defensive player and that means either Newton or Salem need to be given a crack at playing down back, which given the midfield depth we have, is probably the only way they will get a game anyway.

My side for Rd 1 includes Watts, but I really can't see him surviving past Round 7 this year because after four winnables we have three hard weeks against sides that make you accountable - Freo, Swans and Hawks.

And yes I agree with others that Howe has been placed in forward groups so far which suggests that the arrival of Lumumba means they are thinking of using him as the mobile fourth tall forward.

Rd 1 side

Defenders (7): Frost, Tom Mc, Garland, Dunn, Lumumba, Jetta, Salem

Midfielders (7): N.Jones, Tyson, Vince, Cross, Viney, Watts, Grimes

Forwards (6): Hogan, Dawes, Gawn (plus ruck rotation), Howe, Kent, Garlett

Ruck (1): Jamar

Sub (1): JKH or Petracca

Such is the improved depth of midfielders that if entire squad is all available except Trengove, then the magoos could have Brayshaw, Riley, Bail, Toumpas, Mitchie, McKenzie, Newton, Harmes, Stretch, Neal-Bullen and Vandenberg all vying to be part of the VFL midfield rotation in Rd 1.

Good to see we went for a defensive left footer today with Mitchell White, although given his age, there's very little chance he will play in 2015.

To me we urgently need a left-side defensive player and that means either Newton or Salem need to be given a crack at playing down back, which given the midfield depth we have, is probably the only way they will get a game anyway.

Or Brayshaw.

B: Grimes Mc Donald Jetta

HB: Lumumba Frost Dunn

C: Vince Tyson Watts

HF: Howe Dawes Gartlett

F: Petracca Hogan Kent

FOLL: Jamar Jones Viney

Int: Gawn Cross Garland Sub: Salem/Brayshaw/JKH

LH..what youre implying and what OD has said are not actually mutually exclusive.

Roos is definitely trying to work his magic on Toumpas, and he;ll need to. As OD rightly says its talk and talk is peanuts really but as you rightly suggest also , talk is possibly all we have to work with in that respect currently. So talk it is.

I have my doubts about the Toump and am happy to be wrong. Lets hope I am

Please remind me how many seasons Toumpas has been at the MFC and how many full pre seasons he has taken part in?

I'm in the camp that believes Toumpas will be a quality player given the right development and reasonable time frames to prove himself.

I imagine it will be through cheap sunglasses bought at the servo.

My definites if available:

FB: Jetta. Dunn. ****

HB. ****** McDonald. Lumumba

C: Vince. Jones. ****

HF: Howe. Dawes. ****

FF: Garlett. Hogan. ****

R: Jamar. Tyson. Cross

Everyone else still has a fair bit to prove in my opinion before deserving there name in the best 22. I don't care who fills up the spaces or sits on the pine but at present this is all I could say I would definitely take into round 1.

Hogan obviously gets in.

I love the fact Toump, Watts, Kent, JKH, Petracca, Viney, Brayshaw, Stretch will all be competing with the desperados in Bail, Michie, Garland, Grimes, Riley, Newman etc.

Edited December 3, 201410 yr by deeko

I think with the fitness requirements of a modern midfielder its unlikely a first year player (irrespective of talent) will play more than a handful of games.

That Brayshaw and Petracca struggled to do only 11km of an estimated 18-20km running session, highlights how far off ALF pace these kids are, and 1 pre-season ain't going to catch them up...

If, like Petracca, they can sub into a forward role then maybe two handfuls...

The same could apply to second year players as well, especially those who have had one of their pre-seasons cruelled by injury.

We shouldn't expect much from this draft until 2016, despite the hype.

Edited December 3, 201410 yr by PaulRB

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Please remind me how many seasons Toumpas has been at the MFC and how many full pre seasons he has taken part in?

I'm in the camp that believes Toumpas will be a quality player given the right development and reasonable time frames to prove himself.

I know exactly how long hes been with us and also how much hes been able to do preseason and otherwise.

In some manner it in some eyes excuses his current position as though it absolves him of any requirement to be further along his journey.

Im firmly in teh camp of what is...IS. Its truly irrelevant as to why if you are simply taking note of what is. This is to say hes not up to scratch. Hes behind where his trumpeting and drafting suggest he ought to be.

Given the the wholesale influx of mid talent to the club Id say Toumpas better pull his finger out or he will be fooder

In and of this I couldnt give a toss > I only want a team to compete. . If Dimitri can make a contribution to this all well and good. That btw is his SOLE purpose for being at teh club, as it is for any player. Its not a social commune

Toumpas is an exact case in point of unrealistic expectations put on kids stepping up to AFL level Midfield work with injury interrupted pre-seasons and/or seasons. That is, BAD DEVELOPMENT.

Jimmy was drafted late 2012

In season 2013 played 14 games, developing hip issues as required to play too much at AFL level intensity without adequate fitness base.

As a result the 2014 preseason was limited with hip issues...

In season 2014 Jimmy played 4 games, as Roo's lowered the expectations and physical demands required of him as he sorted his hip issues and built a solid AFL level fitness base. That work is continuing today and should start to bare fruit in 2015.