On 22/10/2014 at 03:03, Blistering said:

I'm hearing a lot of he saids and she saids about people without a shred of substantiation or quotes from the time.

I am aware that it was Bailey who had a screaming match with Chris Johnson after training one year when Johnson told him he was leaving. I always thought it was Bailey's decision about Junior and I've never heard of the CEO addressing a team before a game.

I suppose all these things have become gospel five years down the track.

Did you know that Viney wanted Wines but was overuled by Neeld.

(I also heard that Pilate wanted to give Jesus a suspended sentence but was also overruled by Neeld)

CBF you show off.

  On 22/10/2014 at 03:39, thedeeman said:

CBF you show off.

hehehehe

  On 22/10/2014 at 03:03, Blistering said:

I'm hearing a lot of he saids and she saids about people without a shred of substantiation or quotes from the time.

I am aware that it was Bailey who had a screaming match with Chris Johnson after training one year when Johnson told him he was leaving. I always thought it was Bailey's decision about Junior and I've never heard of the CEO addressing a team before a game.

I suppose all these things have become gospel five years down the track.

You know what? it actually does't matter who said what or not.

The only substantiation that matters to me is the position the club is in and who was in charge to get it there. Responsibility is with those people and most of them are now gone, they've paid the price. There are still one or two board members who need to move on.

  On 22/10/2014 at 01:52, Hogan2014 said:

I don't know which club some of you guys were following pre 2014... It was an absolute train wreck of poor decisions made by the wrong people, crap culture & development... Players wanting to jump ship... Coaches made scapegoats.... All roads point to Schwab & Connolly!

This is a fairly simple post. Simple is rarely the case.

Perhaps you are just changing the destination of the scape goating?

The failures of the Daniher era is blamed on Gutnick, Szondy, and Gardner.

The failures of the Bailey era is blamed on Schwab and Connolly.

The failures of the Neeld era is blamed on Lyon and McLardy.

We just go from personality driven blame game to personality driven blame game.

Does anyone really think that it is so simple as to blame these Demons for everything that went wrong?

You can twist this to suggest that I am saying no-one is to blame, and you would be wrong - there is so much to go around it's irrelevant.

If we are going to burn everyone that works for the club, and puts time and money into the club - we won't be left with a club.

Who's ready to move on?

  On 22/10/2014 at 04:21, rpfc said:

This is a fairly simple post. Simple is rarely the case.

Perhaps you are just changing the destination of the scape goating?

The failures of the Daniher era is blamed on Gutnick, Szondy, and Gardner.

The failures of the Bailey era is blamed on Schwab and Connolly.

The failures of the Neeld era is blamed on Lyon and McLardy.

We just go from personality driven blame game to personality driven blame game.

Does anyone really think that it is so simple as to blame these Demons for everything that went wrong?

You can twist this to suggest that I am saying no-one is to blame, and you would be wrong - there is so much to go around it's irrelevant.

If we are going to burn everyone that works for the club, and puts time and money into the club - we won't be left with a club.

Who's ready to move on?

You're right.

We all know it was Watts fault.

The end

  On 22/10/2014 at 03:03, Blistering said:

I'm hearing a lot of he saids and she saids about people without a shred of substantiation or quotes from the time.

I am aware that it was Bailey who had a screaming match with Chris Johnson after training one year when Johnson told him he was leaving. I always thought it was Bailey's decision about Junior and I've never heard of the CEO addressing a team before a game.

I suppose all these things have become gospel five years down the track.

Aint that the truth mate.

We have a quite a few posters who know things on good authority, no doubt some do.

  On 22/10/2014 at 01:41, Colin B. Flaubert said:

I won't come out and say that everything that you wrote is all incorrect Whispering Jack.

I will do likewise and agree that there's a lot of ground that's been covered in the past and we have different takes on what transpired.

I will however, take you up on your ultra-wide definition of tanking which conflates valid list management decisions with unacceptable attempts to throw matches.

As to the individuals you mention, the decisions regarding Jeff White, Adem Yze (2008), Robbo, Matty Whelan and Paul Wheatley (2009) were all justified by the club's youth policy with which I was for the most part in agreement (see below). They were all at the end of their tethers and the latter two could barely walk their way through the final round of 2009. In fact, and it's no disrespect to either, they were so far gone physically that you could mount a very good case in favour of the argument that by playing them we were tanking!

I don't know who was behind the James McDonald decision at the end of 2010, one that I agreed with on the basis of that lengthy recovery from the hammy but I believe its communication wasn't handled well. As for Brad Miller who went at the same time, I believe the news was slipped out inadvertently by the Casey coach on radio. I can't comment on the unreleased Andrews Report and await its publication (somebody must surely make it public one day) but the "ashen faced" reference from Caro was rubbish transmitted to her by someone who had it in for Schwab and the Connolly joke could only be critiqued by people who know nothing about his humour. If those things worried anybody they should get a life.

Your comments about Dean Bailey being tethered in 2008 and 2009 or any time thereafter don't fit in with two lengthy conversations I had with him one on one at club functions I attended. The first was at a Volvo centre on the eve of the Jack Watts draft in 2008 and the next time was at a function which closed down the old Junction Oval training facility in 2010. On the latter occasion, I questioned him about the club's youth policy, about our failure to retain some of those experienced players and about our poor trading record. My view was that we should have tried to recruit a couple of seasoned players from other clubs by trading rather than to rely upon youth entirely. Bailey's view was that the club was going the right way about things and he did nothing to disclaim ownership of this position. Perhaps, he might have simply been diplomatically toeing the party line but I didn't get that impression. Our entire conversation wouldn't have made sense of what you are now claiming was true. I suspect that like most events from the time, a lot of grey areas are now coming back in black or white depending on what people want to believe.

I suppose we'll have to agree to differ on tanking as well as everything else but you haven't satisfied me as to why we advanced so much in 2010 and regressed badly in 2011 against stronger teams that ran both ways and physically monstered us with their superior strength and fitness. Until otherwise convinced, I will continue to believe that the tanking issue did not play any more than a minor role in the issues that led to 186.

Just on the $10k donation by McLean, I remember reading somewhere that the donation was due to a fine set by the leadership group, however I have a feeling that I read it on a footy forum, either here or BF, not sure where. I've just spent a bit of time searching the internet for a reference without success so I have no proof either way. Without evidence I have to presume that it's made up and I would give him the benefit of the doubt.

On thing that I have no doubt about at all though is that for a long time this club was very poorly run, I mean as bad as it could get. I really don't blame anyone for wanting to leave during that time. During my search I've come across some of my own posts back then defending the club for what I realise now was incredibly stupid decisions, how wrong I was. It's a valuable lesson to learn.

Basically a group of mates got together and saved the club from it's spiralling debt. Pretty much every decision regarding improving the club after that was a colossal mistake.

They might all be nice guys but if that isn't gross incompetence I don't know what is. Connolly and Scwhab were the epicentre of our problems. That is as clear as day to most.

The fact we employed Connolly who wanted to coach us to oversee our new coach was a something the Eltham seconds wouldn't even do. It's called a conflict of interest. Then we drag Schwab

into the fold, whilst all the time liaising with Garry Lyon. None of them had experienced a Premiership. At a time when we needed stability and experience at the top we chose poorly and it's been costing us ever since.

As for Mclean. Who cares.

  On 21/10/2014 at 11:45, dazzledavey36 said:

Get your head out of your ass he stood up for himself and also for Dean Bailey. He could see the toxic culture that was developed and eventually explode into a complete mess.

Also the fact the club told him to take a pay cut after he donated 10 grand is a disgrace! He was a leader and a guy that bled red and blue.

Chris Connelly and Cameron Schwab thought they could get away with their little snide games.

Best thing thats happened to this club is Brock opening up the truth On the Couch.

Are you serious?

This club and it's reputation got rigorously dragged through the mud by the media and the AFL then eventually slapped with a ridiculous fine for something many clubs had done before. All because Brock wanted to elaborate on something that could've (and should have) been easily brushed over in an interview.

There's no positive aspect of the heat-seaker he directed to this club.

  On 21/10/2014 at 07:15, brey9186 said:

Would be our 4rd best midfielder still..

  On 21/10/2014 at 21:09, thedeeman said:

Are you having a laugh? Jones, Tyson, Vince, Cross

I am trying to work out where the hell our "4rd" best midfielder fits. Somewhere between 3st and 5nd I reckon.

Any Hoo

Interesting debate

My gripe with Brock is that its pretty poor form to come out in public and slag off your former team especially when your playing for an opposition team. Most players save it for a tell all biography when they retire.

I wouldn't have him back on the team as I dont think there is a role for him that viney, cross, or pig dog are not already performing in. How much depth would you need for his type and role?

The proof of the pudding is in the eating in the end.
CS and CC had their chance to show everyone how big a geniuses they were when they got rid of the coach who they were critical of and to put their own man in. What we got was a farce of the highest order and one in which we had to get the AFL in to save us from our own ineptitude. No wonder Brock had his misgivings.
I will leave it there. I know there is not much to talk about in the silly season but this is just rehashing old ground.

  On 22/10/2014 at 06:49, Roost It said:

Basically a group of mates got together and saved the club from it's spiralling debt. Pretty much every decision regarding improving the club after that was a colossal mistake.

They might all be nice guys but if that isn't gross incompetence I don't know what is. Connolly and Scwhab were the epicentre of our problems. That is as clear as day to most.

The fact we employed Connolly who wanted to coach us to oversee our new coach was a something the Eltham seconds wouldn't even do. It's called a conflict of interest. Then we drag Schwab

into the fold, whilst all the time liaising with Garry Lyon. None of them had experienced a Premiership. At a time when we needed stability and experience at the top we chose poorly and it's been costing us ever since.

As for Mclean. Who cares.

Yep roost it thats exactly how I see it!

The boys club took over and the board went along with it.It was amatuer hour Always felt sorry for Bailey trying to perform in that enviorement Almost impossible

Cannot believe seasoned board members allowed it to happen.Stynes should have gone as soon as he got sick and the good old boys followed soon after

Cant blame the players have to blame in order The board Schwab and Connonly

McLean burnt his bridge on the way out with the public tanking fiasco. Had he just avoided the media and kept a good relationship with his old club then there might have been a spot for him on a rookie list. I can't see anyone grabbing him.

All he is to me is another wasted draft pick along with Sylvia.

  On 22/10/2014 at 21:04, DeeZee said:

All he is to me is another wasted draft pick along with Sylvia.

Brock was a member of that "figjam" club that seemed to want to be the tail that wags the dog.

He obviously felt he could get away with much at Melb ( not alone ) and had some cold reality bestowed upon him even at his beloved Carlton. Now hes been spat out....Appropriate for mine

  On 22/10/2014 at 19:19, jackaub said:

Yep roost it thats exactly how I see it!

The boys club took over and the board went along with it.It was amatuer hour Always felt sorry for Bailey trying to perform in that enviorement Almost impossible

Cannot believe seasoned board members allowed it to happen.Stynes should have gone as soon as he got sick and the good old boys followed soon after

Cant blame the players have to blame in order The board Schwab and Connonly

thats the quality of the pool of talent within our membership base from which we have to draw board members from. I mentioned it in another post . its our greatest weakness. the poor quality and quantity of "power brokers" that follow MFC.

Every election time the big clubs have so many top notch, quality people who step forward to volunteer their time on the board. We have a bunch of muppets, as your post points out.

  On 22/10/2014 at 20:29, Adzman said:

McLean burnt his bridge on the way out with the public tanking fiasco. Had he just avoided the media and kept a good relationship with his old club then there might have been a spot for him on a rookie list. I can't see anyone grabbing him.

Regardless of how he left the first time, he would not have been a rookie spot for him at all.

FCS, MFC is not a charity...although at times in the past six years it may have resemble one!

  On 22/10/2014 at 21:04, DeeZee said:

All he is to me is another wasted draft pick along with Sylvia.

Who would you have chosen otherwise in a such a poor draft?

Neither player was great but there were bigger duds that we could have chosen that disappeared from the AFL very quickly.

  On 23/10/2014 at 08:36, Qwerty30 said:

Who would you have chosen otherwise in a such a poor draft?

Neither player was great but there were bigger duds that we could have chosen that disappeared from the AFL very quickly.

Not saying that I would have neccasarily chosen someone else, just that they ended up being a waste.

Just another chapter in the story of bad luck we had at the draft for players that never reached anything like their high draft order suggested.

Brock McLean should be persona non grata at the Melbourne Football Club. End of story.

Geeze they don't muck around on footywire. Went to look up his stats and he's already been moved to Melbourne's "Past Players".

  On 23/10/2014 at 09:33, DeeZee said:

Not saying that I would have neccasarily chosen someone else, just that they ended up being a waste.

Just another chapter in the story of bad luck we had at the draft for players that never reached anything like their high draft order suggested.

The issue is a relative one because if you did not pick Brock and Col who would you choose?

The bad luck for MFC we had high picks in such a poor draft.

FWIW, given the poor outcome of the year of 2003, our choices were credible .......but not great in the grander scheme of things.

And we got out of the Brock situation with a first round pick in 2009 as a win. Hardly a waste. But we blew the pick on Gysberts. Aaarrgghh!

  On 21/10/2014 at 21:38, thevil1 said:

You always just shoot your mouth off with no idea idiot?

Frequently. Usually I'm right, sometimes I'm wrong. Obviously confused my stories.

Meh.