'The Problem'

[beelzebub 23,390]

you dont always need class...sometimes very effective workmanlike performers are all you require....a la Doull etc

[Earl Hood 6,152]

you dont always need class...sometimes very effective workmanlike performers are all you require....a la Doull etc

Big call BB Doull not having class? I will take whatever he had, however you define it. I say he was an extraordinary footballer and he was my local newsagent for a while as well. Never said much though.

[Maldonboy38 6,420]

I had a conversation with someone today who has strong relationships with many of the players parents and hosting families. The talk around this group is that 6 players are already earmarked for delisting, and 3 of them are definitely Strauss, Byrnes and Tapscott. Blease is in the spotlight but will probably survive, as is Clisby.

The reason I am including this in this thread is that Strauss, Byrnes and Tapscott are actually good users of the ball and considering we are the turnover kings I thought it might be more like Nicholson to be a definite delisted player because his kicking is so bad. Our kicking when under no pressure is particularly poor and costs us games. Terlich, McDonald, Viney and Grimes are the worst, with Bail and Garland not far behind, but many others have bad moments. It is not fitness, and many of the perpetrators are not "dumb" footballers.

[pantaloons 2,019]

There are some posts of epic length here which I've read most of but not in entirety. Sorry if this has been covered, but on the radio after the game on Saturday it was noted that in 2005 when they won the flag, Sydney were 14th in the AFL for inside 50s. While I'd like to have the ball inside 50 more, it's more important to have quality inside 50s. We've got a 13-game sample size now and it can't be coincidence that in the majority of those our opponents have had a worse goal to behind ratio than us.

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

I had a conversation with someone today who has strong relationships with many of the players parents and hosting families. The talk around this group is that 6 players are already earmarked for delisting, and 3 of them are definitely Strauss, Byrnes and Tapscott. Blease is in the spotlight but will probably survive, as is Clisby.

The reason I am including this in this thread is that Strauss, Byrnes and Tapscott are actually good users of the ball and considering we are the turnover kings I thought it might be more like Nicholson to be a definite delisted player because his kicking is so bad. Our kicking when under no pressure is particularly poor and costs us games. Terlich, McDonald, Viney and Grimes are the worst, with Bail and Garland not far behind, but many others have bad moments. It is not fitness, and many of the perpetrators are not "dumb" footballers.

I think the one thing Nicho has that a lot don't is an elite work ethic, so they are hoping they can work on his disposal and decision making. It's weird that Strauss is one of the first cab off the ranks from reading the match reviews and few conversations I've had with people around the club it looks like he is held in pretty high esteem, that said if you don't turn it on at vfl level you don't play afl.

[beelzebub 23,390]

Big call BB Doull not having class? I will take whatever he had, however you define it. I say he was an extraordinary footballer and he was my local newsagent for a while as well. Never said much though.

He wasnt a classy player. Grieg, Flower, etc were classy players. Doull was no nonsense get the job done and done and done. Thats my meaning

[Chook 15,023]

I had a conversation with someone today who has strong relationships with many of the players parents and hosting families. The talk around this group is that 6 players are already earmarked for delisting, and 3 of them are definitely Strauss, Byrnes and Tapscott. Blease is in the spotlight but will probably survive, as is Clisby.

The reason I am including this in this thread is that Strauss, Byrnes and Tapscott are actually good users of the ball and considering we are the turnover kings I thought it might be more like Nicholson to be a definite delisted player because his kicking is so bad. Our kicking when under no pressure is particularly poor and costs us games. Terlich, McDonald, Viney and Grimes are the worst, with Bail and Garland not far behind, but many others have bad moments. It is not fitness, and many of the perpetrators are not "dumb" footballers.

Strauss plays far too loose for a defender, Byrnes is the king of handballing to players' feet, and Tapscott has the footy brain of a concussed gnat. Whatever their footskills may be like, it's clear they're not capable of taking advantage.

[rpfc 28,966]

It's clear to me where our problems are. It's clear as [censored] day. We, the MFC, have far too many players who do not possess critical attributes such as decision making and kicking ability. We have a host of them from deep in the backline right through our midfield and still on our list at Casey trying to get a game. Roos has been able to get the most out of individuals when it comes to 'effort' but effort has got nothing to do with something you're naturally gifted at which is why I don't have an issue with Frawley leaving. Because our problem lies within the midfield and through a compo pick for him, we'll be able to bring in some class. Which is also why I refuse to congratulate players like McKenzie, Matt Jones, Nicholson etc. Players who give their all but absolutely cannot be on the list if we want to be there in SEPTEMBER one day.

Skill and decision making are traits that need to be shown from day one. Within the AFL, a club can't afford the time nor resources to be teaching nearly a whole list of players how to kick or giving them better advice about how to make the right decision. Posters and supporters who keep bringing up the fact the 'X player is only 21, he's got plenty of time to develop' need to understand that it's not the way the cookie crumbles at this level. Sure we'll have some players who are afforded the team to develop areas of their game that are weak if they are valued highly. But not every player. Some will go. And need to go. We should expect more. We should look at the bigger picture.

You should have just left it as the above, stmj. Which has been what you have been saying for a while now - that we don't have an over abundance of talented ball users.

I am not sure many on here disagree with you, we do, however, find it distasteful the way you constantly talk them down.

We don't live in this rosy future where all our players have desire and can execute consistently. We live in the here and now where we appreciate having some blokes who give a sh!t and are showing the promising kids what it takes the get the most out of yourself.

And it isn't a simple as you make out - would you like me to search for references to Jetta and Pedersen and their lack of ability that you have made?

The difference with them? Confidence and a role they can execute. IIRC you had a go at me earlier this season about my belief in 'roles' but Pedersen has found one, Jetta too, maybe a couple others will also be able to fulfil something in Roos' plan?

[beelzebub 23,390]

Strauss plays far too loose for a defender, Byrnes is the king of handballing to players' feet, and Tapscott has the footy brain of a concussed gnat. Whatever their footskills may be like, it's clear they're not capable of taking advantage.

someone has to go...may as well start here

[nutbean 8,838]

"As our list stands today, I feel as if Paul Roos has been able to squeeze everything he can out of each individual which is clearly why he's regarded as one of the best coaches in the league. "

This is the major difference I have with many of Steve's posts. Whilst I agree that there will be culling at years end (probably 8 players), that after years of non development, and by Roos own admission , he is only concentrating on coaching basics - after 13 games you are already suggesting that the ceiling has been hit with these players on our list ?

I don't believe he has even scratched the surface with many players (watts, Viney, Salem, Gawn, Tyson, JKH ) and there are many players that have shown talent in the past that whilst it is no guarantee, have shown they can do better than they are now (grimes, Frawley, garland). Then we have a few who have thrived over the past year or so and have shown plenty under Roos ( jones, Dunn, Pederson and jetta).

I understand we need an injection of class but why after 13 games would you suggest that this is as good as it is going to get with this list ?

The one thing I have figured out is the days of the past where we couldn't develop any players and we saw one step forward and 2 back in terms of improvement with so many players is over. Whilst unproven I am hoping that the ceiling we have seen with so many players for so many years is a thing of the past? I am hoping that Roos has NOT squeezed everything he can out these individuals.

[Earl Hood 6,152]

He wasnt a classy player. Grieg, Flower, etc were classy players. Doull was no nonsense get the job done and done and done. Thats my meaning

Fair call BB but Doull was a class act as my local Newsagent. I also had triple premiership Carlton centre man Ian Robertson as my local newsagent in Box Hill South when I was a kid but he could not hold a candle to Doully when it came to flogging the daily Hun or the Rage.

They were both pretty handy footballers though.