I too saw the game and I can remember a fumble from Toumpas but it didn't have anything to do with him "shirking the contest" on "a number of occasions".

He could've bodied the ball on a number of occasions but chose to avoid the contact which resulted in him fumbling or going one handed at the ball.

Really? That's your contribution?

It's better than most. He's got 14,000 odd recorded.

The mind boggles.

He could've bodied the ball on a number of occasions but chose to avoid the contact which resulted in him fumbling or going one handed at the ball.

No, that's not actually what happened.

He fumbled the ball, but it wasn't 'shirking'. You were just so keen to pin it on him that you assumed that it was, or possibly thought you could get away with it assuming nobody else would have been able to pull you up on it.

Based on what I saw, Harmes will be a player. He has good pace, is hard and very clean. Skills seem reasonable, but it was really hard to tell in those conditions. Huge wind blowing across the ground.

.....

Where did Harmes play, Axis? Does he offer versatility re position he plays? I note he listed at 185cm 76kg medium sized midfielder.

Sandy was also situated in a wind tunnel. Its ground was also a postage stamp.

And also a very strange shape with straight wings: not ideal for preparing for AFL grounds (maybe with the exception of Kardinia Park).

It's better than most. He's got 14,000 odd recorded.

The mind boggles.

Quantity does not make quality, credibility or veracity though.

Where did Harmes play, Axis? Does he offer versatility re position he plays? I note he listed at 185cm 76kg medium sized midfielder.

He played mainly midfield, but also up forward at times. Actually presented pretty well as a medium forward at times and showed good hands overhead.

I think he has a lot of good 'footballer' traits (good hands, hardness, etc) but alsoI was very impressed by his pace for an inside player. I think that we have a good AFL level footballer here in the making.

Oh god you can see every bit of play & every second of the game can you? You must have the best seat in the house.I know what I saw & will stand by it. He avoided contact on a number of occasions. You should watch a bit closer next time.

One positive is I ran into Jesse Hogan and he was smiling and in good spirits. He spent most of the game time out with us plebs having a few jokes with the casey crew and JKH also.

OMG

Jesse was smiling?? Are you sure it was him?

This could be just the news we wanted to hear....

Oh god you can see every bit of play & every second of the game can you? You must have the best seat in the house.I know what I saw & will stand by it. He avoided contact on a number of occasions. You should watch a bit closer next time.

It's an opinion Matt, live with it.

Oh god you can see every bit of play & every second of the game can you? You must have the best seat in the house.I know what I saw & will stand by it. He avoided contact on a number of occasions. You should watch a bit closer next time.

Your contribution to this thread:

- stated Toumpas was "craping [sic] himself most of the first half", which was posted at about 3pm (ie, about half time of the game or just before).

- stated that Toumpas went one handed at the balls because he was 'shirking it' causing him to fumble, which is in direct contradiction to what I saw when watching the game today.

- failed to offer any other comment about any other aspect of the game by any player.

- get angry and emotional as soon as another poster challenged your views with opposing views.

Forgive me if I don't consider your opinion to be the most credible on Toumpas, especially considering you made no attempt to comment on anything else about the game at all.

Edited April 27, 201411 yr by Axis of Bob

Do we really care Chaser J?

Not sure about we, but me, yes. Hence the question.

Really? That's your contribution? You thought that what you said was important enough for people to know that you wanted to post it onto the internet forever?

In answer to your question, Chaser, yes he did play. Seemed to get through uninjured.

Cheers Bob, appreciate the info.

Edited April 27, 201411 yr by ChaserJ

AOB based on the game you saw today what changes would you make for next week?

It's hard to know, because we were so awful today.

A lot would depend on injuries. Garland looked good for the half he played, but went off before half time. McKenzie was good. Riley was solid enough. Gawn rucked well. Other than that, ummmm ...... we weren't great today.

We tended to lack outside class that impacted the game. Evans worked hard, but lacks class. Ditto Nicho. It's a deficiency on our list and if people want to drop Watts and Howe then we aren't going to get a like-for-like replacement.

Your contribution to this thread:

- stated Toumpas was "craping [sic] himself most of the first half", which was posted at about 3pm (ie, about half time of the game or just before).

- stated that Toumpas went one handed at the balls because he was 'shirking it' causing him to fumble, which is in direct contradiction to what I saw when watching the game today.

- failed to offer any other comment about any other aspect of the game by any player.

- get angry and emotional as soon as another poster challenged your views with opposing views.

Forgive me if I don't consider your opinion to be the most credible on Toumpas, especially considering you made no attempt to comment on anything else about the game at all.

I'm not angry or emotional Bob. Given Demonland was down for most of the first half I was commenting about the game via Twitter. I have my opinion on what I saw and you have yours.

I too saw the game and I can remember a fumble from Toumpas but it didn't have anything to do with him "shirking the contest" on "a number of occasions".

Might also be something to do with him being concussed the week before, most players aren't as sharp the following week.

Seems to have been ok at Casey but a bit quiet today.

I'm not angry or emotional Bob. Given Demonland was down for most of the first half I was commenting about the game via Twitter. I have my opinion on what I saw and you have yours.

We can both have our opinions. But when two posters see the same thing and come to two different conclusions, they usually judge the truth based on past evidence about the posters, what apparent biases those posters have and also what other information is provided with their opinions.

For instance, if your posts were written by picket fence, wyl etc, then I would instantly dismiss the post as not being credible, based on the past and their biases etc. I would then look for the opinions of posters whose opinions I trust to get a better idea.

Since I don't really know anything about you, I was had to look at evidence within this thread. That evidence led me to believe that I was right to have faith in my own judgement of the situation.

We can all have opinions on anything. But our opinions are there to be judged, questioned, contradicted and our opinions therefore reflect on us.

Opinions are as cheap, or valuable, as you want to make them.

It's hard to know, because we were so awful today.

A lot would depend on injuries. Garland looked good for the half he played, but went off before half time. McKenzie was good. Riley was solid enough. Gawn rucked well. Other than that, ummmm ...... we weren't great today.

We tended to lack outside class that impacted the game. Evans worked hard, but lacks class. Ditto Nicho. It's a deficiency on our list and if people want to drop Watts and Howe then we aren't going to get a like-for-like replacement.

That's the real disappointment with Watts, we really need his kicking.

How did Strauss go today? he does have a good boot on him.

Might also be something to do with him being concussed the week before, most players aren't as sharp the following week.

Seems to have been ok at Casey but a bit quiet today.

Perhaps. They were fumbles on routine plays (ie, two handed handball receives) that were costly at the time, but not in character for him. He also missed some kicks that were very uncharacteristic. Was brave in the air at half back once or twice, which was good to see after being KO'd doing the same thing last week.

Edited April 27, 201411 yr by Axis of Bob

That's the real disappointment with Watts, we really need his kicking.

How did Strauss go today? he does have a good boot on him.

Played wing, rather than his usual half back. Didn't really impact the game today.

Played wing, rather than his usual half back. Didn't really impact the game today.

Thanks.

Harmes has a punctured lung from todays game

He should learn to get out of Harmes way...

That might have worked better if it was Harmes who punctured someone else's lung.

We tended to lack outside class that impacted the game. Evans worked hard, but lacks class. Ditto Nicho. It's a deficiency on our list and if people want to drop Watts and Howe then we aren't going to get a like-for-like replacement.

And therein lies the problem. People want Watts out, but the bottom line is that Watts and Howe going at 50% are probably still better and contribute more to the side than Bail or Byrnes going at full tilt and not getting near it, and you can't swap them all. Goes back to there just not being enough good players on our list; Evans and Nicholson are currently our 23rd and 24th players.

Thanks for the commentary on Harmes in particular, by the way. It's great to have some insight in to how a player is going when I'd never have any exposure to them otherwise.

OMG

Jesse was smiling?? Are you sure it was him?

This could be just the news we wanted to hear....

Hence I thought I'd share it !! Thought the same thing.

How did Toumpas play, anyone??

Don't bother, we all know you don't care.

And therein lies the problem. People want Watts out, but the bottom line is that Watts and Howe going at 50% are probably still better and contribute more to the side than Bail or Byrnes going at full tilt and not getting near it, and you can't swap them all. Goes back to there just not being enough good players on our list; Evans and Nicholson are currently our 23rd and 24th players.

Thanks for the commentary on Harmes in particular, by the way. It's great to have some insight in to how a player is going when I'd never have any exposure to them otherwise.

Whilst you're probably right in that a 50% Watts or Howe is better than even a 100% Byrnes or Bail, how long can we tolerate players not putting in 100%? What is going to have the bigger impact on the team and our morale, as well as our chance of winning - someone giving 100% but not being talented, or someone giving 50%?

Riley looked great in the highlights. Looks like an absolute bull and had a classy kick inside 50 there. Would be a great inclusion this week against his old mob