Agree with Cudi. Outside of a couple wilfully blind rah-rah merchants Landers can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

To the bandwagoners that will make up the 36k-45k members we want over the next few years - all they see is more darkness that we are travelling through.

We need a big statement to get half of them onboard this season. Otherwise we will have to continue the small improvements and get them next year or the year after.

They want to rock up to a QB game and have their friends and the voices on the radio tell them we are a chance.

Until that mindset happens - our support and membership will stay where it is.

I totally agree with the "We are a chance scenario on big games"......or any games for that matter...its nice to feel that..And its very much true to want to be able to tell people that instead of being laughed at year after year.

I think we can be at a stage now where we are very realistic where we are at but we know as supporters that some little things are getting better but we are hoping like hell they get alot better alot quicker too.... just add some spark to the club & the loyal supporters/members & even opposition people who want to see us up and about. When we arrive again....the people will come...the AFL will have their $$$$ from bums on seats at Demons games again....

I wonder....is the sleeping giant stirring at melbourne??...maybe a little..just not enough....yet..

By the time the Hawks & Cats ect crumble from free agency hopefully we can be ready to arrive...

If we continue on the current trajectory, the wins will come. It was never going to be turned around in one season.

I do agree that without a win in the next four (Syd, Crows, Dogs and Tiges), there is a real risk of players retreating into their shells again.

Grabbing at least one win out of those four games is important, if only to maintain the belief.

Swans will be difficult but not out of the realms of possibility, I'm writing off any SA games for now, Dogs & Tigers both very winnable.

I'm not disappointed with where we are at.

plenty of seasons have gone by and we were 0 and 4.

I can see some real structure in the play, confidence is rising.

Had we not given away so many free kicks and been more aggressive in that second quarter, we would have won the gold coast game.

I reckon roos should have left jones on ablett, he did a fantastic job in that first quarter.

Jones has developed an intense defensive side to his game without necessarily being labelled a tagger because he peels off when we are in attack and is very dangerous, i think he has put himself amongst the games best.

I would take jones over the likes of cotchin, martin, swan, murphy, etc.

there are so many positives compared to last year.

Dunne has developed himself in to a confident utility, he can play just about anywhere, he displays poise under pressure, and he rarely turns the ball over - solid decision maker.

Frawley up forward looks like a serious forward, if he keeps this effort up, fingers crossed, he will be one of the best swingmen playing.

spencer is starting to look like a ruckmen

dawes is a monster, so dangerous when the ball is anywhere near him. he puts in great effort at ground level.

jkh is a little beauty

pedersen has actually been playing good footy. Im not gonna lie, i slagged this bloke something shocking, said he was fat, lazy, a waste of money, you name it haha.

but he has surprised many of us and the last few weeks he's looked particularly composed down back and then this week he played stints up forward and he looked quite good.

inclusions of cross, tyson and vince has been great even though vince has been a bit quieter than i expected, he's a good player and I'm sure he will find form.

none of those things existed last season, apart from jones being a star and dunne playing good footy.

so id say it is looking a lot better already.

Swans will be difficult but not out of the realms of possibility, I'm writing off any SA games for now, Dogs & Tigers both very winnable.

I would actually add Essendon to the (possible) winnable column. They've begun to drop off a bit and if they continue this form we may be able to give them a serious run in round 13.

However the psychological scars of last seasons loss might be too much.

We have definitely improved to a point that we can be competitive at the AFL level. Which says more about how bad we were last season than anything else.

The really hard work starts from here.

St Kilda beat Essendon.

Gold Coast are expected to challenge for finals.

GWS have a ridiculous amount of talent.

Carlton played finals last year.

Come back out of the wardrobe Caspian...

stuie, you embarrass yourself with such feeble attempts at argument, who do you think you are kidding? Surely not even yourself when you wrote that

Here are the flag odds rankings for those 4 opponents

GC - 11th

Carl - 13th

StK - 14th

GWS - 16th

So how does that resonate inside your thick skull when you consider the quality of the sides we have played so far? for ONE win?

It means that on exposed form we are going to finish in the bottom 2 is what it means

If that's good enough for you and some other muppets around here then bless you

PS what grade are you in at primary school - 'this side once beat this other side that is kindof OK, therefore logic dictates, us losing to that side by 6 goals , means that we are kindof ok minus 6 goals' pathetic really

stuie, you embarrass yourself with such feeble attempts at argument, who do you think you are kidding? Surely not even yourself when you wrote that

Here are the flag odds rankings for those 4 opponents

GC - 11th

Carl - 13th

StK - 14th

GWS - 16th

So how does that resonate inside your thick skull when you consider the quality of the sides we have played so far? for ONE win?

It means that on exposed form we are going to finish in the bottom 2 is what it means

If that's good enough for you and some other muppets around here then bless you

PS what grade are you in at primary school - 'this side once beat this other side that is kindof OK, therefore logic dictates, us losing to that side by 6 goals , means that we are kindof ok minus 6 goals' pathetic really

Righto, and what are OUR odds for the flag and what does that tell you?

Maybe concentrate on logic more next time instead of insults.

Righto, and what are OUR odds for the flag and what does that tell you?

Beat me to the punch.

I am surprised that there is not more berating of Roos from those with unrealistic expectations on his oft repeated line about the scoreboard. He has said on numerous occasions that he almost wishes the scoreboard wasn't there. The scoreboard is not his main KPI. So if we rate Roos so highly, why isn't there criticism by those judging our progress purely by wins and losses and by those who won't be happy unless we get "X" number wins of Roos when he clearly sees the scoreboard as a secondary indicator ?

This year we needed to build a solid foundation to work from, get our culture right, get the players heads right and get a workable game plan/structures in place. I have faith that this is occurring and believe we will show on-field improvement in the second half of the season which will give uis a solid foundation to build from heading into next season. It's not ideal, we should be aiming for finals and premierships every single season, but the reality is this is where we are at. We need to get the foundations right so that in the future that is where we can be, where the likes of Hawhtorn, Geelong, Sydney, Collingwood, West Coast etc are now

I think we are about par for the improvement I had hoped for. I was realistic and thought we would finish bottom three this year, but I think some posters forget just how far back we are coming from. Melbourne of 2013 were one of worst sides in AFL/VFL history.

Righto, and what are OUR odds for the flag and what does that tell you?

Maybe concentrate on logic more next time instead of insults.

WHAT!? It tells you were in the bottom 2 which is exactly what I have said all along and is apparently the thing you are arguing against FMD

or are you so blindly argumentative you don't even know what youre arguing about

maybe you are trying (unsuccessfully) to say that we will still finish near the bottom but have lower losing margins and that will be a good enough improvement for you

well, bugger that

WHAT!? It tells you were in the bottom 2 which is exactly what I have said all along and is apparently the thing you are arguing against FMD

or are you so blindly argumentative you don't even know what youre arguing about

maybe you are trying (unsuccessfully) to say that we will still finish near the bottom but have lower losing margins and that will be a good enough improvement for you

well, bugger that

Funny, that's pretty much what Roos has said. Guess you know better...

WHAT!? It tells you were in the bottom 2 which is exactly what I have said all along and is apparently the thing you are arguing against FMD

or are you so blindly argumentative you don't even know what youre arguing about

If you've been saying we're bottom two along, why are your so surprised we've lost to teams picked to finish above us? Seriously, just calm down, have a cuppa, think logically.

Things are much better, and I can go to the footy again knowing that we will be in most games with a chance to win. I am enjoying hope again. I am fairly disappointed with the injuries to our big men but it has allowed the thrill of seeing Frawley forward.

I stated some time in January that I reckon we would only win 1 - 2 games in the first half of the season, and then win 4 - 6 in the second half. I am more convinced than ever that this is how 2014 will look.

Roos steadfastly refused to be drawn into how many wins and losses and even now speaks about "not looking at the scoreboard".

His promise to the faithful was to have a percentage of better than 50%.

I took from that we will see less slaughters than last year and that is exactly what has transpired.

I do not like where we are but I didn't expect much more.

I dont want to hear from Roos that we are coming from a long way back and we have a long way to go - unfortunately - that is the reality.

Im more disappointed about losing Clarke than I am about our start to the year - so I think that's a good sign.

It's a weird feeling going to games and actually thinking: "we could actually win if things go well".. Even with the lack of class, when the team clicks, they can be more than competitive

Really looking forward to the rest of the season!

Judge us after round 5....

4 losses

1 win

Less than 34,000 members

17th on the ladder

Percentage 69.3%

And are yet to play the better sides.

Always thought we'd get better as the season went on. I thought we'd get better structured & organised as time went on.

We're nowhere near getting our midfield right, especially at stoppages. We still don't block or shepherd, and we need to move the ball on quickly after taking a mark when the opportunity presents itself, instead of stopping, trotting back, thoroughly checking out every option before rejecting every one of about half a dozen leads, waiting until the opposition has set up, then being called to play on and having to bomb it to a contest down the line.

But there have been times when we've actually got these things right and we've managed to dominate periods in the game, and even win quarters.

There haven't been a lot of injuries, but the ones we've had have been critical. Dawes in the past 2 weeks has shown what a difference a decent tall forward can make, even though he hasn't set the world on fire, and has allowed us to go more direct instead of chipping it sideways & backwards. Clark or Hogan would have been even better. And Spencer, despite all his energy & effort, is our 3rd string ruck & doesn't help the mids much.

Oh, and I think we'll get smashed by all the top few teams this year. Hawks, Cats, Freo, WCE, maybe Dons & Pies depending on how they're going.

So considering all that, and my low expectations for early in the season, it's not too bad. But really, unless we do improve a lot over the rest of the season, it will not be enough. We need this to be the foundation, not the pinnacle, of our season.

Righto, and what are OUR odds for the flag and what does that tell you?

Maybe concentrate on logic more next time instead of insults.

Surely our flag odds show that we haven't improved all that much... Just sayin.

If you've been saying we're bottom two along, why are your so surprised we've lost to teams picked to finish above us? Seriously, just calm down, have a cuppa, think logically.

I thought we were arguing about improvement or lack thereof, rather than being surprised about it.

cudi, your post was so well written I thought I must have written it, posted it under another name and then forgotten I had done all that.

We are 1 and 4 after 5 rounds, we've played the weaker sides, apart from West Coast - and they gave us a hiding.

If we were judged upon results, it is pathetic.

But given the state of our list, I don't think it is realistic to expect results much better than 1 and 4.

We are in terrible shape and it is going to take Roos quite some time to see game winning results.

The signs are much better under Roos, it is just he is coming from a long way back - a long, long way back.

Funny, that's pretty much what Roos has said. Guess you know better...

really? you're happy with that as a result?

besides, I was merely pointing out that your dressing-up of our opponents so far was farcical, GC and Carlton absolute rubbish on the day, GWS still cellar-dwellars and StK for the bottom 5 or so, despite beating Essendon. To get one win from that lot plus a demolition is NOT what I and many others deem satisfactory