On 27/05/2014 at 23:21, Django said:

Or perhaps it was a very cleverly cloaked attempt at getting in his ear... Oh fark, he's going to Geelong!

Hahaha, everyone at the office is looking at me now after I laughed hard.

  On 27/05/2014 at 22:51, nutbean said:

it probably is rough - but the "bleed red and blue" cliche is highly overused. ( used in relation to Viney)

We laud Jones and his commitment - the same commitment that saw his last contract negotiations stall somewhat as Essendon put in a huge play for him.

I am always bemused by the "he aint going anywhere" statements because the reality is now that the greatest majority of AFL footballers will consider offers from other clubs for varying reasons.

I have now taken the stance that a player will either re-sign or he won't. I don't lose a minutes sleep over it anymore and after Scully i don't hold an opinion on any player at our club staying or going.

The only fact I cling onto is that if a Hogan wants to go to the Eagles or Freo, it will cost them plenty as they have to trade with us. Unless you are a free agent you cannot get to the club of your choice without our co-operation. The only way a non free agent player can walk for nothing is if he prepared to be drafted by a cellar dweller.

This too, makes me feel better, because if hogan walks, you can sure Roosy and co. will make Freo/Eagles pay the most they can for him.

  On 27/05/2014 at 22:51, nutbean said:

it probably is rough - but the "bleed red and blue" cliche is highly overused. ( used in relation to Viney)

We laud Jones and his commitment - the same commitment that saw his last contract negotiations stall somewhat as Essendon put in a huge play for him.

I am always bemused by the "he aint going anywhere" statements because the reality is now that the greatest majority of AFL footballers will consider offers from other clubs for varying reasons.

I have now taken the stance that a player will either re-sign or he won't. I don't lose a minutes sleep over it anymore and after Scully i don't hold an opinion on any player at our club staying or going.

The only fact I cling onto is that if a Hogan wants to go to the Eagles or Freo, it will cost them plenty as they have to trade with us. Unless you are a free agent you cannot get to the club of your choice without our co-operation. The only way a non free agent player can walk for nothing is if he prepared to be drafted by a cellar dweller.

Judd - leaves the club that made him captain and gave him a flag, for the money. Has the opportunity to captain the side he grew up loving. Takes dodgy salary cap loophole with the biggest scum in the comp instead.

Ablett - leaves the club that is practically synonymous with his family name, that is the second oldest club, that gave him premierships, to go to a frigging expansion side

two of the best of recent decades, both totally, 100% sold out

oh and Franklin, Goddard take your pick

  On 28/05/2014 at 00:32, Curry & Beer said:

Judd - leaves the club that made him captain and gave him a flag, for the money. Has the opportunity to captain the side he grew up loving. Takes dodgy salary cap loophole with the biggest scum in the comp instead.

Ablett - leaves the club that is practically synonymous with his family name, that is the second oldest club, that gave him premierships, to go to a frigging expansion side

two of the best of recent decades, both totally, 100% sold out

oh and Franklin, Goddard take your pick

All four you mentioned moved for lots more money pure and simple ( there is some talk that Judd also wanted out due to return home and away from a club with some disturbing cultural problems at the time).

I dont see it as selling out anymore. Professional players maximising financially a limited career lifespan.

As for us, the fans who willing dip into our pockets to watch and support our clubs - we love the few remaining players that put club loyalty over extra dollars.

  On 28/05/2014 at 00:32, Curry & Beer said:

Judd - leaves the club that made him captain and gave him a flag, for the money. Has the opportunity to captain the side he grew up loving. Takes dodgy salary cap loophole with the biggest scum in the comp instead.

Ablett - leaves the club that is practically synonymous with his family name, that is the second oldest club, that gave him premierships, to go to a frigging expansion side

two of the best of recent decades, both totally, 100% sold out

oh and Franklin, Goddard take your pick

Quite simply footy is a job, of course people will look at a significant pay rise to fill exactly the same role somewhere else.

  On 28/05/2014 at 00:32, Curry & Beer said:

Judd - leaves the club that made him captain and gave him a flag, for the money. Has the opportunity to captain the side he grew up loving. Takes dodgy salary cap loophole with the biggest scum in the comp instead.

Ablett - leaves the club that is practically synonymous with his family name, that is the second oldest club, that gave him premierships, to go to a frigging expansion side

two of the best of recent decades, both totally, 100% sold out

oh and Franklin, Goddard take your pick

That's your perception.

Money was a factor, but hardly the sole reason for these moves.

Goddard - left the sinking ship that was the Saints for an up and coming Essendon side.

No one foresaw the drug debacle, and he's still better off.

Frankin - left for money and the desire to get out of the spotlight.

Good luck with that.

Judd - wanted to come home and get out of the drug-addled self-destructive culture at WestCoast.

He went to what looked like the next up and coming side at the time.

3 x number 1 draft picks on the list, presumably a huge backlog of talent due to previous years being a bottom-feeder.

Money was a factor, but only after the decision to leave WA was made.

Ablett - had achieved everything there was to achieve at Geelong.

His name was synonymous with the cats, but it brought with it a spotlight that few before him had experienced.

His coach was a cantankerous burn-out who he clashed with. The side was ageing, and he had limited prospects for the leadership he craved.

The opportunity at GoldCoast was a new challenge - build a club from scratch, and help turn it into a competitor.

Improved pay, and a more anonymous lifestyle and the captaincy.

And so far, I'd say he's done a pretty good job.

  On 28/05/2014 at 01:24, Machsy said:

That's your perception.

Money was a factor, but hardly the sole reason for these moves.

Goddard - left the sinking ship that was the Saints for an up and coming Essendon side.

No one foresaw the drug debacle, and he's still better off.

Frankin - left for money and the desire to get out of the spotlight.

Good luck with that.

Judd - wanted to come home and get out of the drug-addled self-destructive culture at WestCoast.

He went to what looked like the next up and coming side at the time.

3 x number 1 draft picks on the list, presumably a huge backlog of talent due to previous years being a bottom-feeder.

Money was a factor, but only after the decision to leave WA was made.

Ablett - had achieved everything there was to achieve at Geelong.

His name was synonymous with the cats, but it brought with it a spotlight that few before him had experienced.

His coach was a cantankerous burn-out who he clashed with. The side was ageing, and he had limited prospects for the leadership he craved.

The opportunity at GoldCoast was a new challenge - build a club from scratch, and help turn it into a competitor.

Improved pay, and a more anonymous lifestyle and the captaincy.

And so far, I'd say he's done a pretty good job.

All good analysis - but nah - its always primarily about the money and I don't have problem with that. The payback is that I have more love for players that turn their back on bigger pay packets to stay at their club.

  On 28/05/2014 at 01:38, nutbean said:

All good analysis - but nah - its always primarily about the money and I don't have problem with that. The payback is that I have more love for players that turn their back on bigger pay packets to stay at their club.

Your love circle is growing smaller by the year.

  On 28/05/2014 at 01:24, Machsy said:

That's your perception.

Money was a factor, but hardly the sole reason for these moves.

Goddard - left the sinking ship that was the Saints for an up and coming Essendon side.

No one foresaw the drug debacle, and he's still better off.

Frankin - left for money and the desire to get out of the spotlight.

Good luck with that.

Judd - wanted to come home and get out of the drug-addled self-destructive culture at WestCoast.

He went to what looked like the next up and coming side at the time.

3 x number 1 draft picks on the list, presumably a huge backlog of talent due to previous years being a bottom-feeder.

Money was a factor, but only after the decision to leave WA was made.

Ablett - had achieved everything there was to achieve at Geelong.

His name was synonymous with the cats, but it brought with it a spotlight that few before him had experienced.

His coach was a cantankerous burn-out who he clashed with. The side was ageing, and he had limited prospects for the leadership he craved.

The opportunity at GoldCoast was a new challenge - build a club from scratch, and help turn it into a competitor.

Improved pay, and a more anonymous lifestyle and the captaincy.

And so far, I'd say he's done a pretty good job.

you believe in Santa don't you

  On 28/05/2014 at 00:32, Curry & Beer said:

Judd - leaves the club that made him captain and gave him a flag, for the money. Has the opportunity to captain the side he grew up loving. Takes dodgy salary cap loophole with the biggest scum in the comp instead.

Ablett - leaves the club that is practically synonymous with his family name, that is the second oldest club, that gave him premierships, to go to a frigging expansion side

two of the best of recent decades, both totally, 100% sold out

oh and Franklin, Goddard take your pick

It would only be selling out if they were sitting on their arses doing nothing but count their money (a la Scully). Instead Judd on numerous occasions lifted Carlton off the mat to drag them across the line for a win. Ablett has gone on to win the Brownlow (and likely his third this year) after continually puting in the kinds of performance the big bucks were outlayed for. They have not sold out at all... they have taken the opportunity to be paid their market value and to take on new a tougher challenges after tasting success at their former clubs.

Franklin and Goddard are also now proving their worth at their respective new clubs... yes Franklin didn't spark immediately, but he is now starting to display the kind of footy that will justify his pay packet.

To talk of loyalty these days is laughable... as soon as the draft was introduced and the players chances of getting to the club they supported as a kid were gone, loyalty went out of the window.

I think there is probably four variables.

1/ Most players that are happy at their club and see a future would probably stay for a little less money but if offered significantly more bucks move on. - Travis Cloke is an example of player who was offered bigger dollars from Essendon but the difference between the Dons offer and Collingwood was not significant enough for him to move. Franklin, Judd, Ablett and Goddard - significantly more.

2/ A player like Frawley may leave if he doesn't see a future for the same money.

3/ Certain players will leave for more opportunities to play senior football - I think Cross chose the MFC because he knew he would be a starting fixture

4/ Certain players will leave at the end of the career for the chance to play finals for less money - Bruce and Rivers.

My general view is that the struggling clubs ( us over the past years ) have overpaid our players - as RPFC points out - we have to pay someone. It is hard for our better players to get bigger money elsewhere. ( except Voldemort).

The better clubs because of cap restraints can struggle to hold onto players - Dawes came to the MFC because he was offered much more money than Collingwood were prepared to offer. But their marquee players have to decide for the sake of a little money if they want to move on to a club that may not be as successful.

  On 28/05/2014 at 02:56, Curry & Beer said:

you believe in Santa don't you

No.

I just understand that people factor more than just money into these decisions.

It's not rocket science, but it does go against your argument...

  On 28/05/2014 at 04:37, Machsy said:

No.

I just understand that people factor more than just money into these decisions.

No argument at all. Franklin got offered huge bucks from both Sydney and GWS. He absolutely factored in going to that cesspool

  On 28/05/2014 at 03:02, hardtack said:

It would only be selling out if they were sitting on their arses doing nothing but count their money (a la Scully). Instead Judd on numerous occasions lifted Carlton off the mat to drag them across the line for a win. Ablett has gone on to win the Brownlow (and likely his third this year) after continually puting in the kinds of performance the big bucks were outlayed for. They have not sold out at all... they have taken the opportunity to be paid their market value and to take on new a tougher challenges after tasting success at their former clubs.

Franklin and Goddard are also now proving their worth at their respective new clubs... yes Franklin didn't spark immediately, but he is now starting to display the kind of footy that will justify his pay packet.

To talk of loyalty these days is laughable... as soon as the draft was introduced and the players chances of getting to the club they supported as a kid were gone, loyalty went out of the window.

Loyalty requires a two-way relationship. Why should players show loyalty to their clubs when clubs have shown time and again that they see players as expendable commodities? Free agency has just swung the pendulum back a bit towards the players but clubs still hold the whip hand.

  On 28/05/2014 at 00:32, Curry & Beer said:

Judd - leaves the club that made him captain and gave him a flag, for the money. Has the opportunity to captain the side he grew up loving. Takes dodgy salary cap loophole with the biggest scum in the comp instead.

Ablett - leaves the club that is practically synonymous with his family name, that is the second oldest club, that gave him premierships, to go to a frigging expansion side

two of the best of recent decades, both totally, 100% sold out

oh and Franklin, Goddard take your pick

Wasn't one of the reasons Ablett gave for moving to Gold Coast family related? That is, so he could be closer to his brother and father who lived there?

Edit: corrected punctuation

  On 28/05/2014 at 05:41, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Wasn't one of the reasons Ablett gave for moving to Gold Coast family related? That is, so he could be closer to his brother and father who lived there?

Yes that was one of the stated reasons. Like our facilities being a stated reason for Judd. Nobody has ever come out and said 'yeah I am doing this for the money'. They would be crucified if they did. So, in lieu of the truth, they feed us rubbish and apparently many (some in this thread) eat it up with a spoon and a silly grin on their face. Oddly, we live in a society (and I'm not just talking about footy but everything) where everybody thinks it is totally acceptable to prioritise money over everything else, yet to be honest about it being your true motivation is frowned upon and simply not done. If anyone thinks Ablett would be at GC if the opportunity offered the same amount to stay at Geelong you are just a simpleton. Wake up.

  On 28/05/2014 at 05:41, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Loyalty requires a two-way relationship. Why should players show loyalty to their clubs when clubs have shown time and again that they see players as expendable commodities? Free agency has just swung the pendulum back a bit towards the players but clubs still hold the whip hand.

I agree to an extent. Absolutely clubs show no loyalty therefore i have no problems with players looking at their options. But it is demand and value. Players of value and demand hold the whip hand - more money - better terms - alternative clubs. Players who have little value - it is all in favour of the club.

  On 28/05/2014 at 06:04, Curry & Beer said:

Yes that was one of the stated reasons. Like our facilities being a stated reason for Judd. Nobody has ever come out and said 'yeah I am doing this for the money'. They would be crucified if they did. So, in lieu of the truth, they feed us rubbish and apparently many (some in this thread) eat it up with a spoon and a silly grin on their face. Oddly, we live in a society (and I'm not just talking about footy but everything) where everybody thinks it is totally acceptable to prioritise money over everything else, yet to be honest about it being your true motivation is frowned upon and simply not done. If anyone thinks Ablett would be at GC if the opportunity offered the same amount to stay at Geelong you are just a simpleton. Wake up.

I don't think many of us are fooled by the various other reasons.

Once the money box is ticked then other factors are considered.

I do wonder on Franklin if GWS had offered say $50K more a year over 10 years whether he would have gone with GWS. Its still about money - but once you are up to $1M per year on salary alone I guess you can weigh up $50K more against playing in finals.

Edit - on Judd - if the Melbourne offer and the Carlton offer were roughly the same - even if Carlton was little less - at that stage - I would have gone with Carlton for many of the reasons he expressed. Its easy to consider other options once financial demands have been met)

Employees want to be respected, treated well, and fairly compensated.

It's no different in the AFL.

So either we are ALL mercenaries and the word has no meaning, or there are some who value being respected and treated well over their compensation package.

You don't have to get emotionally involved if you don't want to (good luck) but that does not mean you have to be nonchalant about a player leaving, agree with a players' decision to leave, or not feel bitter about someone leaving. They are called 'human emotions.'

Had a dream that we traded Hogan to Fremantle for David Mundy and their first round pick...

  On 31/05/2014 at 00:46, deanox said:

Had a dream that we traded Hogan to Fremantle for David Mundy and their first round pick...

Are you sure it wasn't a nightmare?......i'd prefer to keep Hogan.

  On 31/05/2014 at 00:46, deanox said:

Had a dream that we traded Hogan to Fremantle for David Mundy and their first round pick...

Sounds like a carp dream!

Mundy only has a couple of years left in him, and their 1st round pick is late.

No thanks.

  On 28/05/2014 at 00:32, Curry & Beer said:

Judd - leaves the club that made him captain and gave him a flag, for the money. Has the opportunity to captain the side he grew up loving. Takes dodgy salary cap loophole with the biggest scum in the comp instead.

Ablett - leaves the club that is practically synonymous with his family name, that is the second oldest club, that gave him premierships, to go to a frigging expansion side

two of the best of recent decades, both totally, 100% sold out

oh and Franklin, Goddard take your pick

Been going on forever eg Ron Todd (C'wood - Williamstown), Fred Fanning (Dees - some country club), Barassi etc etc.

The dollar has forever been almighty.

  On 28/05/2014 at 03:02, hardtack said:

.......

To talk of loyalty these days is laughable... as soon as the draft was introduced and the players chances of getting to the club they supported as a kid were gone, loyalty went out of the window.

  On 28/05/2014 at 06:07, nutbean said:

I agree to an extent. Absolutely clubs show no loyalty therefore i have no problems with players looking at their options. But it is demand and value. Players of value and demand hold the whip hand - more money - better terms - alternative clubs. Players who have little value - it is all in favour of the club.

  On 31/05/2014 at 01:34, CHAMP said:

Been going on forever eg Ron Todd (C'wood - Williamstown), Fred Fanning (Dees - some country club), Barassi etc etc.

The dollar has forever been almighty.

It goes back forever....IIRC TGNWS followed the Lions as a kid, or even maybe, heaven forbid, C..wood. (May be wrong). But the was long before money meant anything at all. Paid something like 2 bob a week back then. They just played for whichever team scouted and picked them.

  On 31/05/2014 at 00:51, Demon Disciple said:

Are you sure it wasn't a nightmare?......i'd prefer to keep Hogan.

  On 31/05/2014 at 01:14, Machsy said:

Sounds like a carp dream!

Mundy only has a couple of years left in him, and their 1st round pick is late.

No thanks.

It certainly wasn't a great dream!