Very good a of b

ignore the gist and thrust .

so be it.

improving the best 22 IS done by getting ready mades and NOT perpetually gettinv kids who might be good one day possibly ( and yes I mean the likes of Toumpas )

We seemed hell bent on using high picks to bolstet the kiddy stocks going forward.. its a Munana edict.

Roos believes otherwise and im with him. I agree a balance is desirable but I believe thats better achieved by actually having a team that CAN play and slowly introducing developed youngsters as opposed to this foolish notion that if you keep going for "elite" talented (?) Teens you MUST somehow raise the median of your list.

The past has been every bit about collecting kids for rainy days and has been an abject failure and is why we're currently in the mess we're in.

I'm sorry that you didn't understand what I was saying. My tactic of quoting you and then responding to that specific quote may have been more subtle than I expected.

I'm also not entirely sure who you are still arguing with, since we've already established that we both agree that there needs to be a balance in recruiting.

We only agree A of b that there needs to be a balance redress.

You seem to happily gloss over the cause.

'Jack', I think there is no doubt that McCartin will go number one. He didn't have a great championships but has been struggling with injury this year.

As for our midfield; Petracca looks ready made, I'm not convinced about Brayshaw. Think Laverde maybe Fyfe like but could be just Murdoch and really like the look of Gore, not rated yet but if he has some good games at Sturt will come up the list.

Agree with all of that. Good summation.

Petracca or Brayshaw.

Ahern looked impressive as well.

Any of those players would add a lot to our list.

Just as an aside - Is anyone else outraged that Sydney have the rights to Isaac Heeney because he falls under their academy?
They are arguably the best side in the league, and can claim arguably the best midfielder in the draft, because of a structure that is not given to all the other clubs.

Why are they allowed to claim 'academy' players and other clubs aren't? I call shenanigans!

No dramas with Sydney having access to Heeney.

It's like a father-son selection, ultimately, and they've invested big time in their academy (save for reducing Roos' pay packet by three-quarters - which worked out well for us!).

He's probably the best mid in the draft and they'll get him for a late first rounder. We got Viney for a second rounder, Daniher cost a mid 1st round, Moore will likely go to Pies for a late first round.

Swings and roundabouts.

No dramas with Sydney having access to Heeney.

It's like a father-son selection, ultimately, and they've invested big time in their academy (save for reducing Roos' pay packet by three-quarters - which worked out well for us!).

He's probably the best mid in the draft and they'll get him for a late first rounder. We got Viney for a second rounder, Daniher cost a mid 1st round, Moore will likely go to Pies for a late first round.

Swings and roundabouts.

have Sydney invested heavily or have the AFL invested heavily into these Academies.

who invests in TAC cup if it is the AFL the argument of giving each club a zone academy could be argued

WAFC who are the licence for both WA clubs put money back into development in WA but no first access to these players

Just as a hypothetical

We finish exactly where we are 16th...lamentable but now seemingly probable

ergo Pick 3

Chip takes the coin....we get pick 4 as compensation.

oooh ...tasty lollies !!

The way of the Roos is that a bird in the hard is two in the bush or actually a high pick is worth a known disenchanted or misunderstood player (possibly with go home syndrome ) plus a latter 1st round pick.

Just humour me please fellow demonlanders

Pick 3 and 4, yes both are traded for DECENT run in players with some pedigree and KNOWN ability . Also ,and its a bit of a game so I;ll proffer we might also still retain picks 12 and 18 ( somewhat arbitrary but had to pick something ) i.e maybe a late middle order Ist rounder and a late Ist rounder

So again its all hypothetical ..Weve now got 2 non noobie Mids of good ability and picks 12 and 18

who do we pick, who is possibly still there or hidden ?

I seriously think this is how we might go about it. Gives us something now and something later. Immediate boost to the mid field and something to develop and depth

Who ?

No dramas with Sydney having access to Heeney.

It's like a father-son selection, ultimately, and they've invested big time in their academy (save for reducing Roos' pay packet by three-quarters - which worked out well for us!).

He's probably the best mid in the draft and they'll get him for a late first rounder. We got Viney for a second rounder, Daniher cost a mid 1st round, Moore will likely go to Pies for a late first round.

Swings and roundabouts.

Yes the net effect over the last few years may be thereabout even, but that doesn't disprove the fact that Sydney have access to players that others clubs don't.

Both Melbourne and Sydney can use the father-son rule, only one club can list players under their academy.

Even if Sydney invest time and resources into these kids, why should't Melbourne be allowed the opportunity to do the same?

BB big contracts Dangerfied, Carlisle and shiel

Pick 3 for shiel and late first round gws compo

Pick 4 & toumpas for danger, better than any compo they might get

And gws compo plus second rounder for carlisle and colyer

BB big contracts Dangerfied, Carlisle and shiel

Pick 3 for shiel and late first round gws compo

Pick 4 & toumpas for danger, better than any compo they might get

And gws compo plus second rounder for carlisle and colyer

I like your thinking

Certainly not against the notion of sending Toumpas home is all agreeable

I reckon he might need a change of scenery anyways, it's been a tough start for jimmy

Jake covers the loss of chip

Dangerfield gives us that superstar for our kids to follow and means Jones and Tyson won't cop tags

Sheil looks a ready made gun to me

And I really rate colyer as a player, good hardness and real pace

I reckon he might need a change of scenery anyways, it's been a tough start for jimmy

Jake covers the loss of chip

Dangerfield gives us that superstar for our kids to follow and means Jones and Tyson won't cop tags

Sheil looks a ready made gun to me

And I really rate colyer as a player, good hardness and real pace

Agree with you re Jimmy. Im not having a go at him as such its just there might lay better value for him to return and they win , he wins ,WE win..All happy . Goes with my thinking also that Chips real value sits with his compo.

Shiel and Dangerfiled would be amazing pickups...even just to get one keeps the midfield advancing and thats what needs to happen..We need to keep stepping up.

My thinking simply revolves around thenotion that many are salivating at the possibility of EARLY picks and I dont hink we'll have them Why ?

Roos doesnt work this way and I reckon hes is absolutely right. Reminds me of driving a brand new car out of the lot..Instant mega loss of value... its the same in reverse I reckon with early draft picks...they just arent really worth their hyped up status. Let others go that way and take the beefed up trade and run .

Dangerfield and shiel would improve our side massively, we have had a lot of close losses those two plus Hogan probably turns them to wind and has us in the top 8 mix

Its an incredibly interesting draft from a strategic standpoint. I think a lot of clubs with the first pick would take Peter Wright, but St Kilda has invested pretty heavily in Hickey and Longer, so he doesn't really make a lot of sense for them. I think they'd be at least investigating shopping the pick.

As for us taking Petracca. Admittedly he is a quality player, but you would need to be very confident he has the engine to be a two-way running midfielder, because I don't think he fits in our forward setup equation and it would be overkill adding him to Dawes, Hogan, Pedersen, Gawn, Watts.

I see us trading down and or trading away early picks this year. Not a lot of players make sense and or won't justify being taken that high.

I hear what you say Goodoil but I disagree that a player of Petracca's ilk wouldn't fit into our side as a half forward among the names you mentioned in our forward set up. Firstly, that line up hasn't been travelling all that well (albeit without Hogan), secondly, the players you named are all talls and you need variety and the 186cm strongly built man child weighing in at over 90kg who tested at 2.9 for the 20m looks to be the explosive type we need (apologies to A o B who seems to disagree).

Petracca was interviewed today on TAC Cup Future stars (immediately after a session where Angus Brayshaw demonstrated his kicking style) and he interviews impressively. He has a combined football/basketball background (he was in a state junior team with Dante Exum). He rattled off some impressive figures from AIS testing (agility, speed but noticeably didn't mention endurance). The endurance part doesn't worry me although we've had some failures at the club in this area (Gysberts, Jurrah) because if you're prepared to work hard at it you can definitely improve that area markedly in a relatively short time. So I would have him in the forward mix in year 1 with a view to turning him into an elite and damaging midfielder by the end of year 3.

I don't think we're going to win many more games this year and our likely finishing position is somewhere between 15th and 17th.

That means there's a fair chance we're going to have picks 3 & 4 (Frawley compo) and our finishing position would probably entitle us to apply for draft assistance under the rule that replaced the priority pick (but we'll probably not apply because, although we qualify, the AFL is still intent on continuing to punish us over the tanking fiasco).

I get the point about trying to do another deal similar to the one that secured Dom Tyson and Pick 9 for Pick 2 and whatever and, it's not for me to judge ATM because I don't know enough about the players in that 10 - 20 range. I can't see anyone in there that suggests to me that he would be the star we're looking for (if he were that good, he'd be much higher up the rankings anyway).

However, I think all this lends itself to a good 4½ months of speculation and we're shortly going to open up our trading & draft board.

Anyone have any ideas for a name (last year it was something like find a friend for Jesse Hogan, so there may be some reluctance about personalising the board name).

Anyhow, in the absence of a you beaut trade, I'm with Petracca/Brayshaw & Stretch as f/s. There are 18 clubs and about 18 All Australians available in this draft. If we can snare three in one draft, we're travelling at about the same as when Hawthorn did the same in the middle of the last decade. Hopefully, it will get us the same result.

Also on Future Stars, Terry Wallace went with his Rolling Draft but based it purely on players available and not on what teams in particular positions might have as needs.

He has Petracca (the Larke Medallist who polled in every game he played) as his number 1.

1. Christian Petracca

2. Darcy Moore

3. Isaac Heeney

4. Paul Ahern

5. Angus Brayshaw

6. Patrick McCartin

7. Sam Durdin

8. Caleb Marchbank

9. Peter Wright

10. Jake Lever

With the likelihood of us actually ending up with 3 and 4, not very far fetched at and with history's page alerting all to what we're more than happy to do I'm betting there will be more than a couple of suitors

BB big contracts Dangerfied, Carlisle and shiel

Pick 3 for shiel and late first round gws compo

Pick 4 & toumpas for danger, better than any compo they might get

And gws compo plus second rounder for carlisle and colyer

Some interesting thinking there. However, our second rounder may well go to Stretch as F/S, which is bid upon before trade week starts.

Ahern is getting a fair bit of love.

I haven't seen it.

What does he bring to the table that makes him a top 5 selection?

I see Wright potentially dropping out of the top 5, and Laverde being taken earlier than expected.

As for the Drafting and Trading Board, can't imagine many feeling comfortable with it being the "Chip Frawley" Board, but he will have a lot of influence shaping our recruiting period one way or another.

a name for the board ?

Roos, News and Views

No dramas with Sydney having access to Heeney.

It's like a father-son selection, ultimately, and they've invested big time in their academy (save for reducing Roos' pay packet by three-quarters - which worked out well for us!).

He's probably the best mid in the draft and they'll get him for a late first rounder. We got Viney for a second rounder, Daniher cost a mid 1st round, Moore will likely go to Pies for a late first round.

Swings and roundabouts.

not really the same andrew

swans also have access to father/sons as much as we do

How about the "Goodbye Mr. Chip" Board?

How about the "Goodbye Mr. Chip" Board?

Winner

I hear what you say Goodoil but I disagree that a player of Petracca's ilk wouldn't fit into our side as a half forward among the names you mentioned in our forward set up. Firstly, that line up hasn't been travelling all that well (albeit without Hogan), secondly, the players you named are all talls and you need variety and the 186cm strongly built man child weighing in at over 90kg who tested at 2.9 for the 20m looks to be the explosive type we need (apologies to A o B who seems to disagree).

Petracca was interviewed today on TAC Cup Future stars (immediately after a session where Angus Brayshaw demonstrated his kicking style) and he interviews impressively. He has a combined football/basketball background (he was in a state junior team with Dante Exum). He rattled off some impressive figures from AIS testing (agility, speed but noticeably didn't mention endurance). The endurance part doesn't worry me although we've had some failures at the club in this area (Gysberts, Jurrah) because if you're prepared to work hard at it you can definitely improve that area markedly in a relatively short time. So I would have him in the forward mix in year 1 with a view to turning him into an elite and damaging midfielder by the end of year 3.

I don't think we're going to win many more games this year and our likely finishing position is somewhere between 15th and 17th.

That means there's a fair chance we're going to have picks 3 & 4 (Frawley compo) and our finishing position would probably entitle us to apply for draft assistance under the rule that replaced the priority pick (but we'll probably not apply because, although we qualify, the AFL is still intent on continuing to punish us over the tanking fiasco).

I get the point about trying to do another deal similar to the one that secured Dom Tyson and Pick 9 for Pick 2 and whatever and, it's not for me to judge ATM because I don't know enough about the players in that 10 - 20 range. I can't see anyone in there that suggests to me that he would be the star we're looking for (if he were that good, he'd be much higher up the rankings anyway).

However, I think all this lends itself to a good 4½ months of speculation and we're shortly going to open up our trading & draft board.

Anyone have any ideas for a name (last year it was something like find a friend for Jesse Hogan, so there may be some reluctance about personalising the board name).

Anyhow, in the absence of a you beaut trade, I'm with Petracca/Brayshaw & Stretch as f/s. There are 18 clubs and about 18 All Australians available in this draft. If we can snare three in one draft, we're travelling at about the same as when Hawthorn did the same in the middle of the last decade. Hopefully, it will get us the same result.

I guess the question is, if you assume that Hogan and Dawes play and a ruck/forward plays and Watts plays, what role would Petracca fill in and or would he make much of a difference. Remember Dawes and Hogan are big big bodys and maybe Gawn plays with Watts as a classy tall and then two crumbers/resting mids/defensive forwards. Also if Frawley stays, then you have Dunn, Garland, McDonald, Frawley and Howe as well, so a Howe or Frawley will probably compete for a forward berth as well or someone tall who should be playing AFL sits out each week at Casey. Cam Pedersen for example.

In terms of the forward line it would to me seem far too marking based with not enough crumbing ability and not enough ground level harrassment of the opposition. It seems we have an oversupply by one or two players of capable 190cm plus players, so bringing in a big bodied medium marking forward/on baller doesn't make much sense to me, especially if he is drafted to make an instant impact. Obviously if his testing and work rate lead to him being primarily a midfielder then that's great. But we also have Salem who is a forward/midfielder (hopefully) as well. Hes a good player and he's probably a big chance at St Kilda at one but I just don't think he makes as much sense to Melbourne given our team balance. Obviously things are very fluid and maybe other trades could be done and he would make sense and maybe Frawley going makes it more sensible.

But as things sit, I'd prefer us get say a Liam Duggan for his two-sided quality kicking off half-back/through the midfield or invest in a tall (Goddard/Durdin) for a few years down the track when Frawley, Dawes, Garland are in their late 20s. I guess I view Petracca as a luxury pick when really significant structural abnormalities can be addressed in the immediate and for down the track and I would need to be convinced he is a star to pick him. He may be, but Im not convinced. St Kilda have no entrenched forwards bar a retiring Riewoldt and a resting ruckman, so he could come in play 15 mins forward 10 mid a quarter and be a great pickup, For us we would need to jig things around to get him playing his optimum role in the short term at least.