On 22/07/2014 at 12:49, spirit of norm smith said:

Watched Liam Duggan play ... definitely a top 10 pick. Highly skilled and damaging left footer who can kick 60 meters easily.

like the read on duggan. haven't seen him. but sounds good for what we need. after the mids & swingman trades - in.

Would we consider taking Peter Wright as a developing forward/ruck?

  On 23/07/2014 at 01:31, Scoop Junior said:

Sylvia is not a natural footballer. He has great skills and is a terrific athlete with his high leaping and his strength and power, but he has never really displayed the pure football instincts that the top players have. Things like awareness, peripheral vision in tight contests, the ability to deliver a handball in traffic to release a teammate.

I didn't see him play in the under 18s but I wouldn't be surprised if it was his brute power and strength that regularly resulted in his high possession totals, rather than genuine footy nous.

There's no doubt that recruiters would look at how a player gets his possessions at under 18s level and consider the reasons why that player is getting a lot of the ball or isn't getting a lot of the ball. This would be far more important than simple stats like how many contested possessions or clearances a particular player averaged over the year.

It was well known that at U18s level the team were told just to kick it to where he was. He never actually learned to hunt the ball or read the play.

Edited July 23, 201410 yr by big_red_fire_engine

  On 22/07/2014 at 14:20, rjay said:

I was talking about his X-Factor and I never saw it, to me that is the ability to break a game apart. Cyril has it, Motlop has it, Gary senior had it...mercurial footballers who could turn a game with something out of the box. Col has never had this.

It depends on what you define as 'X-factor'. X-factor, to me, is the ability to do something different that few other can do. For instance, Gary Rohan has x-factor but that's entirely based on raw speed. Colin Sylvia, in that sense, has x-factor based on his power. He could win contests that other people couldn't win because of this.

BRFE is right about his junior footy. He'd take a hanger or two every week as a midfielder. His team mates would just kick the ball to him and he would either win it or kill the person who did. He had natural endurance, but didn't work hard enough. He never developed the work rate or nous to become a high level footballer.

He was, and is, a very flawed footballer. But that is independent of his 'x-factor', or whatever people with to call it.

  On 23/07/2014 at 11:35, Axis of Bob said:

It depends on what you define as 'X-factor'. X-factor, to me, is the ability to do something different that few other can do. For instance, Gary Rohan has x-factor but that's entirely based on raw speed. Colin Sylvia, in that sense, has x-factor based on his power. He could win contests that other people couldn't win because of this.

BRFE is right about his junior footy. He'd take a hanger or two every week as a midfielder. His team mates would just kick the ball to him and he would either win it or kill the person who did. He had natural endurance, but didn't work hard enough. He never developed the work rate or nous to become a high level footballer.

He was, and is, a very flawed footballer. But that is independent of his 'x-factor', or whatever people with to call it.

A younger Col would have benefited greatly from a coach like Roosy.

  On 23/07/2014 at 12:41, Deemotivated said:

A younger Col would have benefited greatly from a coach like Roosy.

I don't think it would have mattered that much, he was lacking in too many areas to be a top line player.

  On 23/07/2014 at 11:35, Axis of Bob said:

It depends on what you define as 'X-factor'. X-factor, to me, is the ability to do something different that few other can do. For instance, Gary Rohan has x-factor but that's entirely based on raw speed. Colin Sylvia, in that sense, has x-factor based on his power. He could win contests that other people couldn't win because of this.

BRFE is right about his junior footy. He'd take a hanger or two every week as a midfielder. His team mates would just kick the ball to him and he would either win it or kill the person who did. He had natural endurance, but didn't work hard enough. He never developed the work rate or nous to become a high level footballer.

He was, and is, a very flawed footballer. But that is independent of his 'x-factor', or whatever people with to call it.

I think that's true. I see it as a player able to do the extraordinary and not just once or twice in a career that's why I named the players I did. I don't see this in Col, I do get what you are saying though based on your definition.

Edited July 23, 201410 yr by rjay

  On 23/07/2014 at 09:03, Mike Nolan said:

Would we consider taking Peter Wright as a developing forward/ruck?

Interesting point, Mike. We know Dawes certainly won't be playing ruck. If we got Wright, that'd free up Hogan. Still, that midfield. We must strengthen the midfield. Early picks are the key to solve that problem.

  On 23/07/2014 at 09:03, Mike Nolan said:

Would we consider taking Peter Wright as a developing forward/ruck?

Maybe if we took two top five picks to the draft, but even then I'd say it's unlikely.

Roos historically prefers to trade in his rucks once they're good to go.

I would stay away from Wright unless you intend for him to be a forward.

Far too high a pick for a ruckman.

  On 23/07/2014 at 11:35, Axis of Bob said:

It depends on what you define as 'X-factor'. X-factor, to me, is the ability to do something different that few other can do. For instance, Gary Rohan has x-factor but that's entirely based on raw speed. Colin Sylvia, in that sense, has x-factor based on his power. He could win contests that other people couldn't win because of this.

BRFE is right about his junior footy. He'd take a hanger or two every week as a midfielder. His team mates would just kick the ball to him and he would either win it or kill the person who did. He had natural endurance, but didn't work hard enough. He never developed the work rate or nous to become a high level footballer.

He was, and is, a very flawed footballer. But that is independent of his 'x-factor', or whatever people with to call it.

Yep. I think this discussion can be assisted by breaking X factor down into football X factor and athletic X factor.

Sylvia has athletic X factor with his strength, power and leap but I don't think he has footy X factor.

The players r jay listed - Rioli, Motlop, Ablett Snr - have footy X factor, such as vision, awareness, goal nous, etc.

No doubt atheltic X factor is very important, as guys like Rioli and Motlop have that athletic X factor with their speed and lateral movement which makes them what they are. However unlike Sylvia they do seem to possess that footy X factor as well.

  On 24/07/2014 at 00:50, Machsy said:

I would stay away from Wright unless you intend for him to be a forward.

Far too high a pick for a ruckman.

Agree with this.

Wasn't early consensus that he'd go pick one? If he does, he'd be a good fit for the Saints (if they stay on the bottom).

Cal Twomey reckons Petracca is firming as #1 selection.

  On 24/07/2014 at 01:41, DemonAndrew said:

Cal Twomey reckons Petracca is firming as #1 selection.

If Petracca goes before our first pick, I can definitely see us trading our first pick.

  On 24/07/2014 at 04:25, Demon 16 said:

If Petracca goes before our first pick, I can definitely see us trading our first pick.

If we don't get Cameron then I would seriously look at McCartin if he was available.

If saints or lions finish last I am about certain they will take mccartin

based on the AFL ladder predictor, I have us finishing 4th last. Problm here is that Petracca wont be there, Heeney is through the Academy and Darcy Moore is FS. Meaning its brayshaw and possible the pick after him. Cards dont apear to be falling for us, but you never know.

  On 20/07/2014 at 08:56, Wiseblood said:

I'd be surprised if the Lions didn't go tall if someone like Wright is still on the board.

problem is we will finish above GWS and they will take Petracca

If Cameron wants out he will probably end up at Brisbane- depending on whether the saints tank or not. That leaves GWS with pick 1 and us with either 2/3 or maybe 4 as our first pick. If petranca is as good as ppl are saying he's GWS bound. We won't have the picks in the kitty do do another Tyson deal- unless spud leaves and we package both pics together, but is the talent in this draft strong enough for someone to deal for 2 picks inside the top 5? Who knows

  On 24/07/2014 at 04:25, Demon 16 said:

If Petracca goes before our first pick, I can definitely see us trading our first pick.

Unfortunately you have to trade your picks before the actual draft...

Who cares honestly the draft has not saved us, finish as high as we can and take the best player available. It's about building a winning culture

  On 24/07/2014 at 05:23, sweet dee said:

If Cameron wants out he will probably end up at Brisbane- depending on whether the saints tank or not. That leaves GWS with pick 1 and us with either 2/3 or maybe 4 as our first pick. If petranca is as good as ppl are saying he's GWS bound. We won't have the picks in the kitty do do another Tyson deal- unless spud leaves and we package both pics together, but is the talent in this draft strong enough for someone to deal for 2 picks inside the top 5? Who knows

The rumours are of homesickness, so I think that probably rules out Brisbane, the Saints would be the ones to beat in terms of a trade but we could offer financially a very good long term deal and a couple of top 5 picks, i'd personally say picks 3 and 4 would trump pick 1 or 2, although I have heard they are very keen on Petracca.

Personally I can't see the saints passing up a forward like McCartin for a midfielder, so i'd say Petracca will slide to at least pick 2

The draft hasn't saved us previously because we have squandered the picks and developed poorly. High draft position doesn't guarantee success but it gives u a better chance. I still feel we are a few quality players off being a competitive team and our best chance of draft success right now is getting picks that are good enough to gazump a few teams and do a deal for proven, more mature players.

In saying that Salem proves roosy knows what he's doing at the draft table and I have faith we are going to be better in the medium term because of this

  On 24/07/2014 at 05:27, Mike Nolan said:

The rumours are of homesickness, so I think that probably rules out Brisbane, the Saints would be the ones to beat in terms of a trade but we could offer financially a very good long term deal and a couple of top 5 picks, i'd personally say picks 3 and 4 would trump pick 1 or 2, although I have heard they are very keen on Petracca.

Personally I can't see the saints passing up a forward like McCartin for a midfielder, so i'd say Petracca will slide to at least pick 2

Going off their performance against freo I can't see saints finishing last anymore, although who knows if this was an aberration or the start of a mini revival? I can see GWS sending a little FU to the players wanting out and saying if u want to leave we will ship u off, but don't think u can walk out on us and be greedy enough to chose the state, we will get premium compensation if u chose to do that.

GWS probably are playing a dangerous game being over accommodating to players wanting out. They will soon see themselves being a feeder club

  On 24/07/2014 at 05:37, sweet dee said:

Going off their performance against freo I can't see saints finishing last anymore, although who knows if this was an aberration or the start of a mini revival? I can see GWS sending a little FU to the players wanting out and saying if u want to leave we will ship u off, but don't think u can walk out on us and be greedy enough to chose the state, we will get premium compensation if u chose to do that.

GWS probably are playing a dangerous game being over accommodating to players wanting out. They will soon see themselves being a feeder club

I agree, I think Dom Tyson is a less essential player so they're happy to swap him for Josh Kelly but a bloke like Cameron is going to be a far more significant loss, if they feel they are no chance to keep him and we offer a couple of top 5 picks I think they will take it and run,

I also agree that I don't think the saints will finish last, I think last will more than likely be decided by who wins out game against the Lions

Watch for Liam Duggan ... you heard it here. A seriously skilled, smart, creative mid/halfback. Best kick in draft ny a mile.