A number of years ago dee-luded I was doing a lot of swimming and developed problems with my left shoulder.

After much treatment and changing technique I ended up at a specialist who said to me " your body is trying to tell you something, find another sport to keep fit"

So I took up cycling.

Funny but my shoulder is ok now.

I suspect that Clark is now the victim of soft tissue problems that will plague him the rest of his Football career if he still has one.

I also suspect Dawes is in a similar boat.

I don't expect much from either of them in 2014 or beyond.

I'm more concerned about Dawes, than Clark... Dawes to my eyes looks top have a chronic knee. I think the Pies were laughing at us, when they took out 2nd pick from us.

I still think Clark will be right once he overcomes the muscles wastage balance, & get it all normal again. as long as the fort bones are OK. the muscles in the feet could be an issue.

your shoulder may have been iffy anyway OD, why not both shoulders OD. you must have had some issue in that one shoulder. imo, its no good to continue stressing an injured joint, without fixing it first.

I understand where you are coming from and agree with much of this however one item concerns me.

We are in deep trouble on our forward line if we think that Pedersen can help with anything.

I know there are probably no alternatives but Pedersen!

all he has to do is be mobile & provide a strong contest & help open up the forwardline.

we'll have Roos's paddock IMO, with the half forwards pushing High, with Howe & Fitzy & a small roaming the 50.

I think that Dawes will be right for Rnd 1,,, or 2 at the worst.

I've been saying, I would hold Hogan back until the forward line is functioning well.

Our perennial biggest problem isn't our talls, its our work ethic & hardness at the contest, for a Long Long time, & it showed up Long ago in the 2000 Grand Final. we were pretenders. we wasted Schwart'as career. not enough hard support & too many airy fairies.

we have to get tougher, more rugged, & ruthless as well. we have been a nice club since the early 70's. bringing in Ditterich, or brad miller won't fix the niceness.. its the nice onfield culture that has to be surgically removed.

I think that Pederson was moved back into the forward group, as they new we would go in to the early season with Clark not ready & hogan needs to be sheltered from the whole load of the forwardline on his shoulders.

My forwardline for Rnd 2, >

Viney Dawes Mitchie

Fitzpatrick Howe ????

this early season, with some key players getting tuned up by the surgeons & the fitness staff, will have longer term benefits.

I'd much prefer to have a slow start, (winning Rnd 1) & easing into the season; & by Rnd 6 - 8,,, be hitting our straps for a strong run home; & the players being hopefully right for the 2015 preseason & beyond.

What the Fark is Pedersen even doing on an AFL list. We keep talking about him like its worth something to name him. It shits me that the club still has to pay him and Byrnes

What the Fark is Pedersen even doing on an AFL list. We keep talking about him like its worth something to name him. It shits me that the club still has to pay him and Byrnes

I don't know what you see munga.

I see an athletic player who is worth a try out, & a bit of time on a list.

time will tell all.

I'm more concerned about Dawes, than Clark... Dawes to my eyes looks top have a chronic knee. I think the Pies were laughing at us, when they took out 2nd pick from us.

I still think Clark will be right once he overcomes the muscles wastage balance, & get it all normal again. as long as the fort bones are OK. the muscles in the feet could be an issue.

your shoulder may have been iffy anyway OD, why not both shoulders OD. you must have had some issue in that one shoulder. imo, its no good to continue stressing an injured joint, without fixing it first.

I was given a large number alternative reasons and treatments but in the end the Orthopedic surgeon said I can improve it but if you keep up this type of exercise it will return in a few months. Save your money and do something else.

In the end dee-luded the fix was to stop doing the thing that created the problem.

That sounds like Dawes and Clark to me.

I don't know what you see munga.

I see an athletic player who is worth a try out, & a bit of time on a list.

time will tell all.

Umm he has had that at North, Werribee and now at the MFC and Casey.

Looks good at VFL level.

but seriously under the standard for AFL.

I don't know what you see munga.

I see an athletic player who is worth a try out, & a bit of time on a list.

time will tell all.

I'll tell you what I see, I see PRIDE, I see POWER ...

A number of years ago dee-luded I was doing a lot of swimming and developed problems with my left shoulder.

After much treatment and changing technique I ended up at a specialist who said to me " your body is trying to tell you something, find another sport to keep fit"

So I took up cycling.

Funny but my shoulder is ok now.

I suspect that Clark is now the victim of soft tissue problems that will plague him the rest of his Football career if he still has one.

I also suspect Dawes is in a similar boat.

I don't expect much from either of them in 2014 or beyond.

Half your luck old Dee I had to take a year off from swimming after a passenger of a vehicle decided to exit the car by flinging open the passenger door into the bicycle lane without looking.

I should be trying to get back into the pool now but thanks to another bicycle incident I am sitting at home with a fractured arm

Half your luck old Dee I had to take a year off from swimming after a passenger of a vehicle decided to exit the car by flinging open the passenger door into the bicycle lane without looking.

I should be trying to get back into the pool now but thanks to another bicycle incident I am sitting at home with a fractured arm

Sounds like two wheels are not for you PSD.

I have had the door opening one and a few others but fortunately nothing more than a bit of lost skin and an episode with shock.

Never had shock before or since thank God.

Now Shock is a strange thing I actually thought I was dying it hit me 30 minutes after a mishap of leaving the bike.

Now Shock is a strange thing I actually thought I was dying it hit me 30 minutes after a mishap of leaving the bike.

I had the same experience quite a few times myself last year - usually happened about three minutes after the siren sounded at the end of a Melbourne match.

who would believe any of the rot that comes from the MFC in regards to injuries?
They have completely lost my faith and belief in them in that regards.

I had the same experience quite a few times myself last year - usually happened about three minutes after the siren sounded at the end of a Melbourne match.

Now that I have had at Quarter time for most of the last two years WJ

who would believe any of the rot that comes from the MFC in regards to injuries?

They have completely lost my faith and belief in them in that regards.

Your problem Song is that you need to get over expecting any football department to tell you the truth.

For a number of reasons it is not in their interest to hit you with the brutal facts.

They also are quite often in the position that they don't know.

Your problem Song is that you need to get over expecting any football department to tell you the truth.

For a number of reasons it is not in their interest to hit you with the brutal facts.

They also are quite often in the position that they don't know.

I just feel as fans, members and paying contributors to the MFC (which i am all three) that we deserve an open line of communication about the club that we invest time, money, blood, sweat, and tears into. Not intentional deceit to keep supporters "hopeful and happy".

If they don't know then fair enough, but i am sure there has been plenty of times where they know exactly the severity of an injury, or how long a certain player will be out for, but they intentionally play coy with releasing the honest truth to keep us dumbies "hopeful and happy".

My students are honest with me, why can't my football club be?

I'd prefer the brutal truth about injuries, not "spin". Hope is something that shouldn't be toyed with.

This week's update sounds promising: David Misson bye week update

If it all (Hogan, Dawes, Garland, Clark) comes together in the first month and they stay fit for 20 odd games we'll be blessed.

Fingers crossed.

This week's update sounds promising: David Misson bye week update

- Tapscott and Gawn back for Casey this week

- Frawley (heavy knock to the chest) and Terlich (concussion) will be fine for round 1

- Dawes, calf tightness, doing well

- Garland improving

- Hogan, hopefully running this week, training next, possibility of round 1 (but sounds unlikely)

- Jamar, tight calf, training well, pushing claims for round 2 (lol)

- Mitch Clark, still building training

- Riley, 1 month to go on LTI, tracking well

13 or 14 due to play at Casey

I was given a large number alternative reasons and treatments but in the end the Orthopedic surgeon said I can improve it but if you keep up this type of exercise it will return in a few months. Save your money and do something else.

In the end dee-luded the fix was to stop doing the thing that created the problem.

That sounds like Dawes and Clark to me.

Except it doesn't. You had an isolated injury obviously related to repetitive exercise. Cut the exercise out and it settled no surprise.

I think Dawes suffers because of Clark's injury. You get in Dawes and you expect him to be the stable one so Clark can come back in time and it goes wrong. But Dawes had a reasonable injury history at Collingwood. Ok his knee had a clean out but that happens. From then on he was fine until his first hit out he only had calf tightness, Collingwood are flirting with playing Jesse White and Ben Reid who have the same thing. If it wasn't for his history of soft tissues last year he'd probably be on track for round 1. I still think Dawes deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Clark's had one heck of an injury. If it doesn't ever work out so be it but I still see him as recovering from the initial injury. We just need more patience.

I look at Ryan Harris and the great performance he's given Australia over the last few years despite injury interruptions and a horrible injury history. We can get Dawes and Clark we just need time and patience.

I don't even bother reading Daves updates it's all pie in the sky, the main 3 are Colin, chris and Jessie if they can be back by round 2 that would be a good boost for the supporters.

- Tapscott and Gawn back for Casey this week

- Frawley (heavy knock to the chest) and Terlich (concussion) will be fine for round 1

- Dawes, calf tightness, doing well

- Garland improving

- Hogan, hopefully running this week, training next, possibility of round 1 (but sounds unlikely)

- Jamar, tight calf, training well, pushing claims for round 2 (lol)

- Mitch Clark, still building training

- Riley, 1 month to go on LTI, tracking well

13 or 14 due to play at Casey

So a Round 7 return if Misson's past reports are anything to go by.

I just feel as fans, members and paying contributors to the MFC (which i am all three) that we deserve an open line of communication about the club that we invest time, money, blood, sweat, and tears into. Not intentional deceit to keep supporters "hopeful and happy".

I too would prefer brutal honesty. But you are assuming the spin is solely to keep supporters 'hopeful and happy'. There is probably more to it.

But even if not, there is no reason to assume that the feelings of people on this board are typical of the average supporter, paid up or potentially paid up. What if in their corporate wisdom the Dees (along with all the other clubs apparently), have decided spin to keep that more numerous class of supporters hopeful and happy is the correct policy. Then the rest of us will just have to lump it.

Except it doesn't. You had an isolated injury obviously related to repetitive exercise. Cut the exercise out and it settled no surprise.

I think Dawes suffers because of Clark's injury. You get in Dawes and you expect him to be the stable one so Clark can come back in time and it goes wrong. But Dawes had a reasonable injury history at Collingwood. Ok his knee had a clean out but that happens. From then on he was fine until his first hit out he only had calf tightness, Collingwood are flirting with playing Jesse White and Ben Reid who have the same thing. If it wasn't for his history of soft tissues last year he'd probably be on track for round 1. I still think Dawes deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Clark's had one heck of an injury. If it doesn't ever work out so be it but I still see him as recovering from the initial injury. We just need more patience.

I look at Ryan Harris and the great performance he's given Australia over the last few years despite injury interruptions and a horrible injury history. We can get Dawes and Clark we just need time and patience.

tm I know I was being overly simplistic with using my shoulder as an example.

My view is that Dawes was out a lot last year with calf problems and has them this year before the season has started.

In very simplistic terms that is a trend to me

Clark is different but after nine months of resuming training ( i think he started back in June 2013, at one stage the club was saying he could have played the last couple of games ) he is still not joining the main training group.

Looks more than the explanations to me.

Now you can say I am pessimistic and you are probably right but experience has taught to take with a grain of salt anything the Football dept. says about injuries.

I look forward to you being correct

I too would prefer brutal honesty. But you are assuming the spin is solely to keep supporters 'hopeful and happy'. There is probably more to it.

But even if not, there is no reason to assume that the feelings of people on this board are typical of the average supporter, paid up or potentially paid up. What if in their corporate wisdom the Dees (along with all the other clubs apparently), have decided spin to keep that more numerous class of supporters hopeful and happy is the correct policy. Then the rest of us will just have to lump it.

You have it correct IMO

I have been working on this basis for some years.

And is basically why I take everything they say with a grain of salt.

The only way you can be almost certain of a players fitness is when he is named in the team.

...

The only way you can be almost certain of a players fitness is when he is named in the team.

Almost is the word. There are clearly cases of teams playing mind games with opponents. Say X is in team, oppos plan for that, and then he is replaced. I expect teams have the NSA/CIA trying to second guess this sort of thing.

This week's update sounds promising: David Misson bye week update

Gullible.