Dear WYL and Rhino read chapter 24 of the "Red Fox". I believe Cardwell was the prince of recruiters but his role in Norm Smith's demise has had long lasting repercussions. In particular page 609 and the recollections of John Lord who was confronted by Cardwell about an address to the players. Cardwell was checking up on Norm and a statement he was supposed to make to the players about hi support of the committee. When he believed this didn't happen, based on mis information from Lord he called a players meeting and was clearly talking to the committee who sacked Norm and gave them the feedback resulting in his sacking. It shouldn't have happened and when I re read the chapter I could not believe how much Cardwell had been involved. Smith was sacked then re instated but the club has as many said been cursed ever since.

Will re read Older....

Dear WYL and Rhino read chapter 24 of the "Red Fox". I believe Cardwell was the prince of recruiters but his role in Norm Smith's demise has had long lasting repercussions. In particular page 609 and the recollections of John Lord who was confronted by Cardwell about an address to the players. Cardwell was checking up on Norm and a statement he was supposed to make to the players about hi support of the committee. When he believed this didn't happen, based on mis information from Lord he called a players meeting and was clearly talking to the committee who sacked Norm and gave them the feedback resulting in his sacking. It shouldn't have happened and when I re read the chapter I could not believe how much Cardwell had been involved. Smith was sacked then re instated but the club has as many said been cursed ever since.

Thanks Older Demon. Nothing like the facts.

Foundation Heroes.....Should have been done 20 years earlier.

Hardly empowerment at all,

Its means for the Club to tap regularly into the excellent generousity and dedication of a small group of supporters who can (and maybe cannot) afford it to give each year.

Unfortunately the belief that Stynes engendered upon taking the Chairmanship was poorly squandered by the Club up to 2013.

Bob's right on Stynes' true MFC legacy.... and its a great story and achievement as a player.

That was not the fault of Carl though. He worked his butt off and ovviously enjoyed his time as he returned for a second stint.

The problem was that we recruited just him and expected it all to change.

Norf did it right. Got outside money to help finance 5-6 players and RGB. Instant team

They were shocking in 1972, in 1974 runners up.

spot on

a perennial battler club, to change the culture requires a big list change, with many top leaders to challenge the old ways.

Foundation Heroes.....Should have been done 20 years earlier.

Wow. So you're saying Stynes "empowered" the members by letting them give money to the club.

Jim was a great figurehead and people wanted to follow him and believe in him and that was great. But he didn't "empower" the members.

i know what wyl means

maybe "empower" was the wrong word

jim made a point (until his health restricted him) of involving and being involved with members

he would often be seen in the outer with the fans and engaging the "ordinary" people

i'm sure if he hadn't had his problems we would have seen a lot more of jim mixing with the memberst

he wasn't a president who locked himself away in boardrooms

just saying

i know what wyl means

maybe "empower" was the wrong word

jim made a point (until his health restricted him) of involving and being involved with members

he would often be seen in the outer with the fans and engaging the "ordinary" people

i'm sure if he hadn't had his problems we would have seen a lot more of jim mixing with the memberst

he wasn't a president who locked himself away in boardrooms

just saying

Well said DC, he hardly got to finish his work, blokes like Rhino always have a bone to pick.

i know what wyl means

maybe "empower" was the wrong word

jim made a point (until his health restricted him) of involving and being involved with members

he would often be seen in the outer with the fans and engaging the "ordinary" people

i'm sure if he hadn't had his problems we would have seen a lot more of jim mixing with the memberst

he wasn't a president who locked himself away in boardrooms

just saying

I agree. "Empower" was the wrong word and I agree Jim was a peoples President.

Hardly empowerment at all,

Its means for the Club to tap regularly into the excellent generousity and dedication of a small group of supporters who can (and maybe cannot) afford it to give each year.

Unfortunately the belief that Stynes engendered upon taking the Chairmanship was poorly squandered by the Club up to 2013.

Bob's right on Stynes' true MFC legacy.... and its a great story and achievement as a player.

But not squandered altogether and we shouldn't belittle his efforts with Debt Demolition which was never intended to be the only way in which to take the club out of the parlous financial state it occupied in 2008. What we do know is that if the team's crap then you lose money. One hopes that PJ gets this right because we've not been good at that part for nigh on half a century.

i know what wyl means

maybe "empower" was the wrong word

jim made a point (until his health restricted him) of involving and being involved with members

he would often be seen in the outer with the fans and engaging the "ordinary" people

i'm sure if he hadn't had his problems we would have seen a lot more of jim mixing with the memberst

he wasn't a president who locked himself away in boardrooms

just saying

Correct Jim opened the doors to the members for the first time. Made the supporter feel part of the "club" rather than just a match day supporter.

Correct Jim opened the doors to the members for the first time. Made the supporter feel part of the "club" rather than just a match day supporter.

Actually, Joe Gutnick did that when he was President and Gabriel Szondy tried it for a while as well. Opening the doors for the members and supporters is a positive initiative but it's not enough when the team keeps getting flogged. Our core business is to produce a winning football team and good administration and governance will help us get there but making nice to members is overrated if you don't get the other things right.

Wow. So you're saying Stynes "empowered" the members by letting them give money to the club.

Jim was a great figurehead and people wanted to follow him and believe in him and that was great. But he didn't "empower" the members.

Can we just say he tried to improve the club and did his best.

Actually, Joe Gutnick did that when he was President and Gabriel Szondy tried it for a while as well. Opening the doors for the members and supporters is a positive initiative but it's not enough when the team keeps getting flogged. Our core business is to produce a winning football team and good administration and governance will help us get there but making nice to members is overrated if you don't get the other things right.

Sure. But Jim took it further. He had the "it" factor. If he had not become ill i am still certain Jim would have presided over success.

Can we just say he tried to improve the club and did his best.

Of course. My question related to the concept of "empowering" the members. As I've said in this thread Jim was a fantastic footballer, one of the great stories really and he bought the club together.

Sure. But Jim took it further. He had the "it" factor. If he had not become ill i am still certain Jim would have presided over success.

You bet WYL ,if Jim didn't fall sick he would've turned us into a great footy club.

You bet WYL ,if Jim didn't fall sick he would've turned us into a great footy club.

Not to wish to tarnish his many great deeds, but that was not a given. He may have or he may not have, that is the reality.

He was a Dees great and should be remembered that way.

Ian (Tiger) Ridley once told me how he came to join MFC.

He was playing for Hamilton Imperials (I think) and was joint winner of the league's best and fairest (with Clyde Laidlaw who also went to MFC).

Jim Cardwell called into the bank in the bush where Ian was a teller. Wanting to create an impression, Ian stood on a box behind the counter to increase his modest 5 feet 4 inches of height.

In those days there were no zones or drafts and clubs had to compete vigorously to recruit players. Ian had lost his teeth through a gum infection, so Jim, on behalf of MFC, told Ian they would buy him a set of dentures if he signed with MFC.

Of course Ian signed, but he doesn't remember ever getting the dentures.

He was a handy pick-up, playing 130 games - including 5 winning grand finals - before a knee injury cut short his career.

Actually, Joe Gutnick did that when he was President and Gabriel Szondy tried it for a while as well. Opening the doors for the members and supporters is a positive initiative but it's not enough when the team keeps getting flogged. Our core business is to produce a winning football team and good administration and governance will help us get there but making nice to members is overrated if you don't get the other things right.

Correct Jack. But being nice to members is overrated if everything else is out of order.

Not to wish to tarnish his many great deeds, but that was not a given. He may have or he may not have, that is the reality.

He was a Dees great and should be remembered that way.

Fair summary.

Ian (Tiger) Ridley once told me how he came to join MFC.

...................................

He was a handy pick-up, playing 130 games - including 5 winning grand finals - before a knee injury cut short his career.

Nice Australian understatement on Jan 26 Corowa.

Tiger's record included

6 Grand finals, 5 winning ones plus another finals series in a career stretching only 7 senior seasons.

MFC Team of the Century (emergency) and inaugural inductee to the MFC Hall of Fame. B & F runner up in a Premiership year and also leading goal kicker.

A handy pick-up indeed

Correct Jack. But being nice to members is overrated if everything else is out of order.

Fair summary.

That is so funny but true.

Correct Jack. But being nice to members is overrated if everything else is out of order.

Isn't that exactly what I said?

Szondy was a peoples man.

Now Ive heard everything.

Of course. My question related to the concept of "empowering" the members. As I've said in this thread Jim was a fantastic footballer, one of the great stories really and he bought the club together.

the concept of 'empowering' our supporters/members, that would be making the club more open to the supporters, of the Melbournefc Demons, is a great idea; to make the 'organisation' return back into a footy club. this can only make the club stronger, even if sum whom enjoy hob-nobbing, may get their proboscises out of the joint.

I hope Roos will also open the stuffy place up.

the Power, that comes from wanting to give something back to those who are far less privileged than the players themselves, is a huge honesty trip, whether these be sick kids, or older supporters who've followed thru the pain of decades of sadness & despair. its a real head leveling & motivating factor thats been missing from the high walls of this Organisation.

open the doors & lets all get on with being Dees, & winning for one another.

back to the recruitment; I've been pushing for us to use our first 2 picks on gun kids, & to try to lure some older experienced talent, who could be the role models to our young kids, & to our under 25's.

I'm pleased to see we have now gone down this road this year (2013), & possibly to some extent last years (2012) recruitment period. cross, vince, dawes last year, even if he cost us too much in picks.

.... this should help us Re culture, as we have shed a number of old (over 28's) skins, in the last few years, some good players, but with the Old baggage culture, which had to go, to allow a New healthy strong & vibrant culture to grow.

I feel we are on the way, in the right direction at the very least.

Edited January 27, 201411 yr by dee-luded

I'd like to know who recruited our Coaches.

Skilton, Jones, Barassi

Those appointments all come down to the "Board of the day" They were BOZOS.

Success starts at the top. CEO, Board, Coach, FD & Players.

We presume we have all this in place. Time will tell.

The appointment of Skilton was hardly a mistake. Would have had us in finals except for Walls screwing up a kick for goal v Footscray