I was simply curious as to why you gave evidence for one conclusion then proffered another conclusion.

Because this was the statement or question.

If they're both 100% fit, that's ridiculous. What attributes does Fitzpatrick bring that Dawes doesn't have.

Did you know Mitch Morton was a Premiership player? Or what about Shannon Byrnes? I bet he is your pick for Forward pocket ahead of Kent and JHK.. Funny how you say Fitzy is awkward unco yet i watched him towel up Heath Grundy (premiership backman that is... you know the ones you love?) against the swans and kick 4 goals against the Lions. I must have saw different to you because i saw huge potenial with this guy. If i was a defender id rather side up against the lumbering Dawes with a wonky knee to be quite honest.

Id probably swap Fitzy for Dawes and have Hogan push up to a CHF and have fitzy next to Clark. Two 200cm tall forwards in the goal square to kick isn't a bad idea for me.

There's a reason Malthouse went after Dawes along with us last off-season. There's a reason he was CHF in one premiership side and again in one that lost. Dawes is excellent overhead, whereas Fitzpatrick is incredibly clumsy and watching 60% of Casey games this year is my evidence. If I gave him the ball one 10m out and one 40m out on the boundary his chance of kicking a goal would be equal on both. Inconsistency is terrible.

This is a classic case of us overrating a so-so player on a rubbish list. But to suggest Fitzy play before Dawes is laughable.

This is a classic case of us overrating a so-so player on a rubbish list. But to suggest Fitzy play before Dawes is laughable.

They both bring different strengths and provide flexibility. I was impressed with both of them this year. If Fitzpatrick improves again how much he improved between last year and this year his value will rocket, and it is possible considering he only turned 22 this season.

I'll name 2, a fit Dawes and Clark, it's a big ask imo but if we get those 2 back together then it all falls into place or it just falls

Dawes is a far better key forward than Fitzpatrick. Clark and Hogan will benefit from a bullocking workhorse, which is Dawes. Fitzpatrick may have a role, but it won't be in place of Dawes. They have two very different roles.

Dawes is a far better key forward than Fitzpatrick. Clark and Hogan will benefit from a bullocking workhorse, which is Dawes. Fitzpatrick may have a role, but it won't be in place of Dawes. They have two very different roles.

I see it the same way.

If Clark plays a season injury free - Fitz should be traded.

If Clark is the desired second ruck/tall forward then he is playing the position Fitzpatrick is suited for.

This is all a bit 'iffy' really:

Will Clark and Dawes be able to play AFL footy?

Will Fitzpatrick continue his development from 2013?

Will Clark play second ruck?

All things being equal (and going well) - Clark, Dawes, Hogan, and Howe complement each other well and, in my opinion, is the basis of a forward line that will still feature another Fitzpatrick-like player in Watts.

I hope 2014 is tougher for Fitzpatrick than 2013 because that will mean we are injury free and on the up.

I see it the same way.

If Clark plays a season injury free - Fitz should be traded.

If Clark is the desired second ruck/tall forward then he is playing the position Fitzpatrick is suited for.

This is all a bit 'iffy' really:

Will Clark and Dawes be able to play AFL footy?

Will Fitzpatrick continue his development from 2013?

Will Clark play second ruck?

All things being equal (and going well) - Clark, Dawes, Hogan, and Howe complement each other well and, in my opinion, is the basis of a forward line that will still feature another Fitzpatrick-like player in Watts.

I hope 2014 is tougher for Fitzpatrick than 2013 because that will mean we are injury free and on the up.

A large hope rpfc.

However I too hope we can get a reasonable injury free run from Clark, Hogan and Howe. Dawes is another matter, Injury jury is out for me on Dawes.

I see it the same way.

If Clark plays a season injury free - Fitz should be traded.

If Clark is the desired second ruck/tall forward then he is playing the position Fitzpatrick is suited for.

This is all a bit 'iffy' really:

Will Clark and Dawes be able to play AFL footy?

Will Fitzpatrick continue his development from 2013?

Will Clark play second ruck?

All things being equal (and going well) - Clark, Dawes, Hogan, and Howe complement each other well and, in my opinion, is the basis of a forward line that will still feature another Fitzpatrick-like player in Watts.

I hope 2014 is tougher for Fitzpatrick than 2013 because that will mean we are injury free and on the up.

The other possibility is that Fitzpatrick could be tried in a different position on the ground altogether. Key defence perhaps? Nothing wrong with having versatile players or experimenting with someone of his attributes - height and pace - to see if he can add something to the team effort in places other than the obvious.

It seems that the last page of this thread has degenerated into getting rid of Fitzy. As one of the big improvers this year, I would hope that posters could be discussing how to retain him, either as back-up (and eventual replacement of Jamar?) or in a different position as W_J suggests above. Why get rid of depth players with upside so that they can star at an opposition Club? Does not make sense unless somebody is deluded enough to think we won't get our normal run of (unpredictable) injuries.

Having not seen a game in 2013, due to a mixture of moving away from the city, newborn baby and a general disgust in the team I've got quite a few that I'm looking forward to seeing play in 2014.

Jimmy Toumpas

Jack Viney

Mitch Clark

Jesse Hogan

Dom Tyson

Viv Michie

Chris Dawes (fit)

Christian Salem

JKH

For the first time in a long time I'm looking forward to seeing the team play

Having not seen a game in 2013, due to a mixture of moving away from the city, newborn baby and a general disgust in the team I've got quite a few that I'm looking forward to seeing play in 2014.

Jimmy Toumpas

Jack Viney

Mitch Clark

Jesse Hogan

Dom Tyson

Viv Michie

Chris Dawes (fit)

Christian Salem

JKH

For the first time in a long time I'm looking forward to seeing the team play

Good selection and i would throw Watts in there as well!

There's a reason Malthouse went after Dawes along with us last off-season. There's a reason he was CHF in one premiership side and again in one that lost. Dawes is excellent overhead, whereas Fitzpatrick is incredibly clumsy and watching 60% of Casey games this year is my evidence. If I gave him the ball one 10m out and one 40m out on the boundary his chance of kicking a goal would be equal on both. Inconsistency is terrible.

This is a classic case of us overrating a so-so player on a rubbish list. But to suggest Fitzy play before Dawes is laughable.

Strange your view of Fitzy, the Season Rview of Casey says (paraphrase) "Fitzy started the season in excellent fashion"

It seems that the last page of this thread has degenerated into getting rid of Fitzy. As one of the big improvers this year, I would hope that posters could be discussing how to retain him, either as back-up (and eventual replacement of Jamar?) or in a different position as W_J suggests above. Why get rid of depth players with upside so that they can star at an opposition Club? Does not make sense unless somebody is deluded enough to think we won't get our normal run of (unpredictable) injuries.

I hope he is as good as you think he is and we can trade him (or some other tall forward) for a midfielder.

Depth players is a luxury we should not be concerning ourselves with.

It's no good having a 1st world forward line with a couple playing at Casey when your midfield is bereft of talent.

It's no good having a 1st world forward line with a couple playing at Casey when your midfield is bereft of talent.

It's a bit early to be declaring our midfield to be bereft of talent. At least give Jones, Cross, Toumpas, Tyson, Vince et al. the opportunity to prove they're a bunch of hacks. Then you can trade Fitz, assuming our other forwards are fit as Mallee bulls.

I hope he is as good as you think he is and we can trade him (or some other tall forward) for a midfielder.

Depth players is a luxury we should not be concerning ourselves with.

It's no good having a 1st world forward line with a couple playing at Casey when your midfield is bereft of talent.

We have just recruited a swag of midfileders, most of them experienced and ready to play. Surely it is a good idea to wait until we play a few games before we continually lament about our midfield being 'bereft of talent'. Let us review things after we play a few games with Vince, Cross, Mitchie and Tyson injected into the guts along with an improving Jones, Viney, Toumpas and Trengove (and maybe Salem) and then assess whether we are still weak in this area.

Depth players is not a luxury as we found out last year with a decimated forward structure through injuries (and also periods when our backline was under pressure).

Fitzpatrick v Dawes at the same age would make an interesting comparison. I would suggest fitz would come out ahead.

Fitz is one of the more promising kpfs in the league.

He is underrated on here.

Fitzpatrick v Dawes at the same age would make an interesting comparison. I would suggest fitz would come out ahead.

Fitz is one of the more promising kpfs in the league.

He is underrated on here.

4th Years in the system:

Fitz (2013) averages: 10 disp, 4.2 marks, 1.4 goals.

Dawes (2010) averages: 12 disp, 5.6 marks, 1.5 goals.

I will let the readers decide who had the more impressive year, how much it matters, and whether the fact Dawes played in a flag that year is a plus or a minus in this discussion.

It's a bit early to be declaring our midfield to be bereft of talent. At least give Jones, Cross, Toumpas, Tyson, Vince et al. the opportunity to prove they're a bunch of hacks. Then you can trade Fitz, assuming our other forwards are fit as Mallee bulls.

Our midfield is terrible, just terrible. In 2014 we will have Cross and Vince as known quantities to improve our fortunes, but that is somewhat offset by the loss of Sylvia. Tyson, Trengove, Watts, and Toumpas may improve and may make us better, but it is far from a guarantee that they will - or that their improvement will be significant enough to put us on a par with lower-middling sides.

We have just recruited a swag of midfileders, most of them experienced and ready to play. Surely it is a good idea to wait until we play a few games before we continually lament about our midfield being 'bereft of talent'. Let us review things after we play a few games with Vince, Cross, Mitchie and Tyson injected into the guts along with an improving Jones, Viney, Toumpas and Trengove (and maybe Salem) and then assess whether we are still weak in this area.

Depth players is not a luxury as we found out last year with a decimated forward structure through injuries (and also periods when our backline was under pressure).

What did last year show us about forward depth?

That if you can't compete in the midfield it doesn't matter that you have forward depth.

As I said above, our recruits in the last off-season help but it is far from the end of it.

I expect us to target midfielders again next year and I am willing to part with luxury items to get a premium midfielder.

4th Years in the system:

Fitz (2013) averages: 10 disp, 4.2 marks, 1.4 goals.

Dawes (2010) averages: 12 disp, 5.6 marks, 1.5 goals.

I will let the readers decide who had the more impressive year, how much it matters, and whether the fact Dawes played in a flag that year is a plus or a minus in this discussion.

Again, RP, your stats aren't worth a pinch of shite for me.

Fitzy, in 2013, was played often (in the 2nd half of the year) as the number 1 key forward, with a midfield that was "bereft of talent" providing him with minimal opportunites. Not to mention he played for a team that finished 17th.

Compare that to Dawes' 2010, playing 2nd or 3rd KPF alongside Travis Cloke and Leigh Brown, being delivered the football from midfielders such as Dane Swan, Scott Pendlebury, Dale Thomas and Luke Ball. His team in 2010 finished 1st.

Under the circumstances, it would be hard to argue that Fitzy's 4th year wasn't any less impressive.

Your fetish for stats has clouded your implied judgement again.

Again, RP, your stats aren't worth a pinch of shite for me.

You're a lovely person, Billy.

Jabberwocky asked for a comparison - I gave it.

I also said "whether is matters" is up for you - the Land poster - to decide. I think direct comparisons like that are fraught too.

But you go blow a gasket Billy, you go blow.

But you go blow a gasket Billy, you go blow.

Disappointingly personal.

You're a lovely person, Billy.

Jabberwocky asked for a comparison - I gave it.

I also said "whether is matters" is up for you - the Land poster - to decide. I think direct comparisons like that are fraught too.

But you go blow a gasket Billy, you go blow.

Given your desire to trade Fitzy, you have provided basic stats to try and prove your point, which in the grand scheme of things, failed to support your case. You implied, by the use of these stats, that Dawes is ahead of Fitzy at the same time of their careers, failing to highlight "real world" points which would've revealed the many holes in your opinion. When challenged and made aware of your shortcomings, you tried to put the blame on someone else (Jaberwocky) for bringing it up, while trying to coat yourself in teflon by stating "I think direct comparisons like that are fraught too". When you knew how you were starting to look, you come out swinging with the personal comments.

No disrespect to anyone that this may apply to, but I'm imagining you are a school teacher RPFC, am I right? Either that or someone who spent the last three years at university getting an Arts degree.

Disappointingly personal.

Water off a duck's back, BB.

RPFC is a poor man's Ben Hur.

Edit - I hope to see the last line as RP's signature for the next season at least!

Water off a duck's back, BB.

RPFC is a poor man's Ben Hur.

I like both. They make me feel good.

Ben has a sense of humour and is funny. He also writes in a very engaging way and so when he is personal it's laced with a smile. Not many understand this.

Describing RPFC without being disappointingly personal is really not possible. But he's a keen student of the game and loves the club.

Our midfield is terrible, just terrible. In 2014 we will have Cross and Vince as known quantities to improve our fortunes, but that is somewhat offset by the loss of Sylvia. Tyson, Trengove, Watts, and Toumpas may improve and may make us better, but it is far from a guarantee that they will - or that their improvement will be significant enough to put us on a par with lower-middling sides.

What did last year show us about forward depth?

That if you can't compete in the midfield it doesn't matter that you have forward depth.

As I said above, our recruits in the last off-season help but it is far from the end of it.

I expect us to target midfielders again next year and I am willing to part with luxury items to get a premium midfielder.

Q.1 > It showed that we didn't have any!

Far from being a luxury item this year, Fitzy filled a gaping whole and filled it well He also showed that he was capable of massive improvement over a twelve month period, with the potential for more. An athletic 200cm utility is a good asset to any Club and it would be foolhardy to seek to trade him just because there is a deficiency in another area (which is currently being addressed albeit not fast enough for some Demonlanders)!