Interestingly while agreed we have a good and potentially better than average back line, I would argue that we have a great defensive back line but an average attacking back line.

We don't have creative and decisive players setting up attacks as part of the rebound from D50.

Is this the fault of the players in the D50, or is it the result of our very average midfield not running to position to provide those attacking options?

It will be interesting to see if adding some quality to the midfield improves the perceived decision making skills of Grimes, Dunn, McDonald and Frawley on the way out.

Great post.

Re your last point, I think so and hope so.

Interesting quite a few here have factored Watts as a positive in the midfield this year.

Even though Roos has earmarked it, he has no history to show he could become a decent midfielder let alone a top one. I hope he does but do people think he can be strong enough at the contest? even if he does take the timid out of his game, will he have the ability to get the ball? I still doubt it.

What he has shown so far is ability when he is a loose man and occasionally as a forward showing some brilliance.

The new recruits are all natural midfielders but watts would start at ground zero.

This too bemuses me. I reckon he will tried from a wing and Roos will set him up behind the contest as in a 2008 Aaron Davey.

Interesting quite a few here have factored Watts as a positive in the midfield this year.

Even though Roos has earmarked it, he has no history to show he could become a decent midfielder let alone a top one. I hope he does but do people think he can be strong enough at the contest? even if he does take the timid out of his game, will he have the ability to get the ball? I still doubt it.

What he has shown so far is ability when he is a loose man and occasionally as a forward showing some brilliance.

The new recruits are all natural midfielders but watts would start at ground zero.

I think with Roos being a big basketball fan and knowing Watts was an elite point guard, that he believes he could find a niche as a midfielder. Given that Watts hasn't really dominated one spot, maybe Roos feels that Watts could become an elite on baller.

I don't know I agree, but I do think that it will top Jack's game off, after this year he'll have played forward, back and midfield.

If he can become a decent midfielder, then he has that versatility to be able to shift back or push forward.

It won't do Jacks future any harm at all.

Nice work from Ryan but I'm not overly interested in hearing about Watts being the next O'Keefe or Viney being similar to Hannebery. Better comparison:

Jones = Griffen

Vince = Cooney

Viney = Libba

Cross = Boyd

McKenzie = Wallis

Trengove, Tyson, Michie, Watts, Toumpas = Macrae, Smith, Hrovat, Stevens, Hunter

That Bulldog midfield was beaten by us and nearly rolled by GWS at their worst. But at their best served it up to some of the better sides and won 8 games for the year. Now you are some kind of optimist if you wouldn't settle for 8 wins next year right now. The Bulldogs top 5 has an edge on us as LIbba matured a lot in 2013 and Griffen has the edge on Jones and Cooney's best whilst rare is a step up from Vince. But after that I think we have the edge in the next 5.

I am surprised you haven't mentioned him, but I would rate Dahlhaus ahead of just about every Dogs player you have listed.

I am surprised you haven't mentioned him, but I would rate Dahlhaus ahead of just about every Dogs player you have listed.

Good player. Nowhere near the league of Griffen and Libba or probably Boyd and Cooney but the point was to name the dogs midfield and Dahlhaus does minimal midfield time. Presumably our backlines and forward lines with superior talls match up well against the dogs so if our midfield can perform as well as the dogs of 2013 then wins are possible.

The one player I really omitted was Minson.

I had a look at a couple of Casey games last season and was impressed by Jesse Hogan chasing the ball around the middle and (occasionally) into the back half of the ground.

He is a ball hunter and should be considered in any discussion surrounding our midfield.

And please, I'm not saying that he will or should be in the midfield mix a la Watts but from what I saw last season, he appears to be the sort of player who will go in and lend a hand when he sees a need.

For a big kid he's very agile!

Won't argue with Peter Ryan's analysis. He's usually a fair and objective observer but I reserve the right to be an optimist and I reckon we'll get some pleasing results in 2014.

What gives me more than a modicum of hope is the Lions' performances over the last two years. For them to win 10 games in 2012 and again in 2013 with their list shows how close the competition is.

Rich, Redden, Rockliff, and Moloney as a collective are no world beaters. Yes, they're better than what we've had and throw in a few cameos from Black and the run of Hanley and you can see why they had some wins and plenty of competitive games, but their forward line is crap and their back-line just serviceable.

Even Port have shown what can be done without star mids. Boak stepped up, Hartlett was OK, Ebert terrific and Cornes rejuvenated, but once again we're not talking about champion mids. And we're also not talking huge quantities. It's amazing the difference 2-3 B+ players can make. If you can get a couple to A grade level the difference is quantum.

BH getting a couple of pass mark midfielders is all we need IF we can get the group paying with confidence, self belief and intent.

This is Roos' biggest challenge. If we get smashed out of the blocks before we gel as a unit and we don't get that confidence together we could struggle all year. A strong shoeing in the first few rounds (regardless of wins, but a couple would do wonders!) could set us up for a good year and develop a belief that may enable us to halt an opposition run-on or fight back the week after the inevitable smashing.

I hear lots of supporters saying "they believe it when they see it" about improvement under Roos, and/or with new players but I bet the odds 40 players on the list thinking/feeling exactly the same thing, even if they are hopeful that something will improve.

Yep, agreed. My initial thought of our chances of winning anything more than 5 games next year, isn't a confident one. But when you see teams like the Lions, Bulldogs and the Suns win 8 or more in a season, it does suddenly seem like a pretty reasonable expectation.

Yeah he played 7 games for the Saints

in 1919

Oh a great year for OD and his best chum Frank Green LOL

Interesting quite a few here have factored Watts as a positive in the midfield this year.

Even though Roos has earmarked it, he has no history to show he could become a decent midfielder let alone a top one. I hope he does but do people think he can be strong enough at the contest? even if he does take the timid out of his game, will he have the ability to get the ball? I still doubt it.

What he has shown so far is ability when he is a loose man and occasionally as a forward showing some brilliance.

The new recruits are all natural midfielders but watts would start at ground zero.

Good points.

However, there's different roles for mids. I'd be surprised if he'd ever be in the centre square, for example, or as an inside mid. But Roos must have put a fair bit of thought into how to get the best out of him. That's how he persuaded him to re-sign, remember?

Two possibilities off the top of my head are: (1) the main go-to option for coming out of defence, and link between defence and attack; (2) like a half-back in rugby league, where he gets the ball on the edge of the pack & has to distribute it.

These would be playing to all his strengths, and there would have to be more, but I'm not good enough to think of them.He'd still need to harden up a lot, because if he turned out to be any good at it, he'd get a lot of attention. On the other hand, he'd be very hard to match up on, especially as he's good at reading the play, and good at finding space.

Not a conventional mid, but a mid all the same. It could work well.

Beating St Kilda, Bulldogs, Brisbane and GWS? (5 wins?)

Brisbane might be pushing it but you never know after their turmoil towards the end of this season.

Dons, Eagles, GCS, Tigers, Crows, Blues maybe even Pies.

We will be much more competitive than you say.

Whilst I apologise for introducing the analogy of politics its worth noting that at elections a swing of a very small amount 1-2% has enormous effects as to results. Can be the difference of winning or losing. Its not much is it 1-2%. Looking at footy change some stats by a small margin and for interest sake lets suppose we can at least provide a contest in the middle and hold sway against the other lower 8 teams and stop the onslaught with the upper 8 and I cant see how you wont have a very meaningful difference in results ( scoreboard )

A possible reason for not seeing too much attacking coming out of defence might go to the simple nature of them being under constant bombardment . They are essentially playing a lock down rear guard action. The priority is to stem the scoring. Doesnt allow a lot of scope to get all creative offensively. Ease the pressure a little and I really think it'll change wholesale-like. Chip isnt adverse at coming into the guts but has had to play stay at home defender.

If you look at where our players have been during most games and had to create an imaginary epicentre of our play , this spot spends a lot of time in our defending 50. Change the balance and get it back to the middle ( as a start ) and scorelines will change markedly. Get the ball into our 50 and its really that simple as to predicating a change of fortune. This game isnt that overly complicated. Get it forward, create opportunities to score and execute.

Having a competitive midfield swings those percentages of possessions, clearances etc back from the abyss. So just like an election. Little changes here and there can all add up. Having said that I believe we've made a significant change in the guts.

If we can get blokes to stay on the park we will surprise more than a few teams and some will struggle against our fwds, once theyre fed.

Dons, Eagles, GCS, Tigers, Crows, Blues maybe even Pies.

We will be much more competitive than you say.

I like your optimism but I reckon that's a bit of a stretch for an unproven forward line and when you think about our midfield whilst Toumpas and Viney should have improved a lot and Cross and Tyson are good to go additions, Vince is a breakeven, and Mitchie and pick 9 will take another year.

At this stage I think Essendon, Richmond, Carlton and Collingwood will have better lists than us.

If we could beat St Kilda, GWS, Bulldogs and possibly Brisbane that would be a very good year for us.

I agree with Beezlebub that we will surpise a few this year (including our own supporters)! Hopefully this will happen in our early games (e.g. St Kilda) so that it translates into a surge in membership.