sheesh the bloke played 23 out of 25 in 2012, this year he had a few injuries.. that happens in football.. there is no reason to suggest it will happen again

Good point.

Chris has played 83 games in 6 years. If you subtract 2012 games, his best year, you are left with 5 years for 60 games, 12 a year, coincidentally the number he played this year.

That indicates he plays about half the games each year over his career so far.

I agree he should be in the leadership group and appears a fine person, but not necessarily as Captain.

Me personally I would favour Jones, with JT and JG as vice captains.

Good point.

Chris has played 83 games in 6 years. If you subtract 2012 games, his best year, you are left with 5 years for 60 games, 12 a year, coincidentally the number he played this year.

That indicates he plays about half the games each year over his career so far.

I agree he should be in the leadership group and appears a fine person, but not necessarily as Captain.

Me personally I would favour Jones, with JT and JG as vice captains.

Make it so

Good point.

Chris has played 83 games in 6 years. If you subtract 2012 games, his best year, you are left with 5 years for 60 games, 12 a year, coincidentally the number he played this year.

That indicates he plays about half the games each year over his career so far.

I agree he should be in the leadership group and appears a fine person, but not necessarily as Captain.

Me personally I would favour Jones, with JT and JG as vice captains.

ah no, you've included his first 2 years as a new draftee which obviously brings the average down. Three seasons prior to this he played most games. Nice try though.

ah no, you've included his first 2 years as a new draftee which obviously brings the average down. Three seasons prior to this he played most games. Nice try though.

OK you win.

When the captain is picked this time, the psyche of the group needs to be taken into account.

While the two Jacks may have been personally popular, there was resentment in the group that the blokes who had done the hard yards were being overlooked. I think there have been less resentment if Jonesy had been made captain because at least he had been there for at least 7 years.

If Chris (as solid a citizen as he may be) is made captain, we risk disrupting the group again. It would send a loud message to the boys that it doesn't matter what you do for the club or how long your tenure is, if we see an opportunity to get ahead then bugger you and your service. This kind of thinking lead to Junior, Robbo and Cameron Bruce leaving the club and creating the leadership void we are suffering from today.

I like Dawes, and his leadership abilities are obvious. But I would rather we have a midfielder as a sole captain as forwards come have really quite days whereas someone like Jones you can get a guaranteed contribution even if all you see of him is his bald head diving into packs.

I also think Dawes needs to have an injury free year before we have him as our captain, same goes for Clark. Both of them ooze leadership but I just want them out on the park to start off with.

Can I suggest David Neitz has been our best Captain in the last 20 years, ahead of Jmac and Lyon. In my view he was truly inspirational in a generally pretty successful Demons side. He was also a key forward, sometimes back. I think it depends on the personal qualities of the individual rather than what position he plays.

ah no, you've included his first 2 years as a new draftee which obviously brings the average down. Three seasons prior to this he played most games. Nice try though.

The guy is 24, which means he has been in fottbal about 6 years, where he was learning the rope the first two years. Since then he has played pretty consistently until his injury this year, which happens.

We do not have anyone else on our list with his level of finals experience except maybe Byrnes, and he is over 30. A premiership player, key position, has at least 6 years left in him, who is also smart,there no-one equivalent on our list.

He could be another Neitz

When the captain is picked this time, the psyche of the group needs to be taken into account.

While the two Jacks may have been personally popular, there was resentment in the group that the blokes who had done the hard yards were being overlooked. I think there have been less resentment if Jonesy had been made captain because at least he had been there for at least 7 years.

If Chris (as solid a citizen as he may be) is made captain, we risk disrupting the group again. It would send a loud message to the boys that it doesn't matter what you do for the club or how long your tenure is, if we see an opportunity to get ahead then bugger you and your service. This kind of thinking lead to Junior, Robbo and Cameron Bruce leaving the club and creating the leadership void we are suffering from today.

please provide evidence of this resentment re: Trengove/Grimes

also, Robbo and Bruce were pathetic leaders

JMac wasn't, but I am getting very sick of the revisionist mythology around what happened at the end of his career. He was 33 years old FCS, the club did the correct thing in the interests of itself before a player, after he left he played 13 games for that GWS rabble, big woop, in what universe is what we did anything other than what we should have? So if a 33 year old wants to go around again even though he is finished we should just say 'yeah OK that's fine whatever you like'. It is a classic example of how the media and anyone else who wants to take a shot at us can take any piece of history and point at it to explain why we are so [censored]. In reality, the end of JMac's career has ZERO to do with anything.

It really blows my mind, at the time of Bailey's takeover the majority of us here couldnt wait to see the back of the old Daniher gaurd that had let us dowen badly for years, saying how great it was we were slashing and burning the dead wood to make way for talented kids. Of course everyone just changes their tune now, it really is sickening.

Edited September 18, 201312 yr by Curry & Beer

The guy is 24, which means he has been in fottbal about 6 years, where he was learning the rope the first two years. Since then he has played pretty consistently until his injury this year, which happens.

We do not have anyone else on our list with his level of finals experience except maybe Byrnes, and he is over 30. A premiership player, key position, has at least 6 years left in him, who is also smart,there no-one equivalent on our list.

He could be another Neitz

Totally agree

The crybabies here are upset though cos he got injured and they want wins right now

Dawes' one injury-riddled big dollar season at the club is certainly not worthy of bringing him up in a captaincy conversation.

Edited September 18, 201312 yr by Deez Nutz

Dawes' one injury-riddled big dollar season at the club is certainly not worthy of bringing him up in a captaincy conversation.

You have my vote DN

Can I suggest David Neitz has been our best Captain in the last 20 years, ahead of Jmac and Lyon. In my view he was truly inspirational in a generally pretty successful Demons side. He was also a key forward, sometimes back. I think it depends on the personal qualities of the individual rather than what position he plays.

I definitely thought about that, but there were no doubts for me at times back when he was captain there were periods in the game where he had no way of influencing, in fact if he dropped back into defense I felt it was almost a white flag. That said I completely agree that he has been one of our best ever captains at the club.

I have my preferences, but I wouldn't be angry if he was chosen to lead the boys.

Nope. Read up on the impact of 'culture' on organisations. The coaches are and bosses are paid the most for a reason. You can't tell me the players enjoy looking like fools week in week out? Players always desperately wanted to win, the tone is set from above and also the onfield leaders (culled by Neeld).

Saying 'it's the players not trying hard enough' is to say that we may as well get rid of all coaches and management.

Just watch them grow and bust a gut under Roos. Coach and CEO change has been what we have needed. We have that now, unfortunately it will take a little longer to show as it might've as Neeld tore holes in our list but anyway we are on the right track.

Glad you agree with my other point thought that Dawes is only a small step above spud level.

I think your wrong. I don't like using the term club culture because its being blamed for every mis hap lately, but the culture impacted on the boys to the extent that they didn't wanto play any more and didn't try hard enough. The players are a massive part of creating culture.

Further, Dawes left collingwood because they wanted a tucking forward, Dawes wasn't good at it. That made a mistake in letting him go for an older has been. Apart from injury he has been very good. It would be naive to suggest collingwood made the right decision in letting him go for Q.

please provide evidence of this resentment re: Trengove/Grimes

also, Robbo and Bruce were pathetic leaders

JMac wasn't, but I am getting very sick of the revisionist mythology around what happened at the end of his career. He was 33 years old FCS, the club did the correct thing in the interests of itself before a player, after he left he played 13 games for that GWS rabble, big woop, in what universe is what we did anything other than what we should have? So if a 33 year old wants to go around again even though he is finished we should just say 'yeah OK that's fine whatever you like'. It is a classic example of how the media and anyone else who wants to take a shot at us can take any piece of history and point at it to explain why we are so [censored]. In reality, the end of JMac's career has ZERO to do with anything.

It really blows my mind, at the time of Bailey's takeover the majority of us here couldnt wait to see the back of the old Daniher gaurd that had let us dowen badly for years, saying how great it was we were slashing and burning the dead wood to make way for talented kids. Of course everyone just changes their tune now, it really is sickening.

1) Beamer left for Brisbane (though you could question his motives). Jared Rivers (I have heard from others who should know that this is the case). It's likely that Aaron Davey worked against Neeld soon after he was dumped from the leadership group. Green played one more year then moved on. Maybe there wasn't personal animosity toward the two Jacks as men but there was animosity towards the decision.

2) I will never believe that the treatment Junior received was even close to adequate. Also, the decision to get rid of him stuffed us nine ways from Sunday. I find it a little hard to accept that a bloke can go from the top leadership position in the club to apparently being a list clogger in the space of 12 months. He had an injury riddled year in 2010 but when he was fit, he could still go (see: his last game).

3) Others complained about how veterans were treated. I believe that Brad Miller went to the club before he was delisted and complained about what had happened.

4) I can't say I was ever jumping up and down about what was happening. I agreed up to a point but I was genuinely surprised Junior was dispatched so ruthlessly.

Edited September 18, 201312 yr by Guest

I definitely thought about that, but there were no doubts for me at times back when he was captain there were periods in the game where he had no way of influencing, in fact if he dropped back into defense I felt it was almost a white flag. That said I completely agree that he has been one of our best ever captains at the club.

I have my preferences, but I wouldn't be angry if he was chosen to lead the boys.

DN played in Defence sometimes because he was so bloody good at it. In fact, Carey described him as by far his best, most challenging opponent. It was quite valid for him to spend time in defence on occasions, particularly to break the rhythm of an opposition side.

It is testament to how good a forward he was that he actually spent the vast majority of his time in attack particularly in his latter years.

His physical presence was intimidatory. So could Dawes if taught how to do it (perhaps by DN himself). It is a feature we badly lack in the team, and would be a great addition to the captaincy.

he would be a great choice as captain, hes a born leader and make others walk taller around him

I think he will be Vice skipper, and Grimes and Jone will be co-captains

he would be a great choice as captain, hes a born leader and make others walk taller around him

I think he will be Vice skipper, and Grimes and Jone will be co-captains

Unfortunately, you maybe right, but Roos has a history of making decisions from "left field" on these sorts of issues. He may want to leave the entire episode from last year behind and allow the two jacks to concentrate on becoming elite players. Both are young enough to step up at a later date if it is appropriate.

In any case, I don't think co-captains ever really work. Much prefer strong, defined leadership, like a Neitz, Lyon, or even Barassi.

I have said all along who will be our Tom Harley his influence on Geelong was immeasurable. He was the best Captain and I think Colin Garland is the right personality, his article the other day about hating losing and everything he does tells me he is a leader who men will follow.

I have said all along who will be our Tom Harley his influence on Geelong was immeasurable. He was the best Captain and I think Colin Garland is the right personality, his article the other day about hating losing and everything he does tells me he is a leader who men will follow.

Listen to his best and fairest speech (if you can stay awake through it) and then come back and tell me if you still think the same way.

Grimes is a good captain who will mature into a great leader and needs to given time. He is one of the hardest working and most professional blokes on and off the field and leads by example. He will be a gun off half back in the next few years. Grimes is mature for his age and a good public speaker with great media potential. There is absolutly no reason to change Grimes for anyone but I agree that Trenners probably struggled with the role and should drop back to VC maybe with Jones. Others in the leadershp group Dawes, Garland, Clark, Sylvia and maybe an experienced new bloke for mine.

I like him, but there's a fair bit of overestimation of Dawes in this thread. The next Neitz? On what basis?

Early signs are that he'll be a good pick up and settle into his role well, but he still has it all to do performance wise and he also needs to stay on the field. He doesn't deserve a captaincy nod ahead of any of Jones, Grimes or Garland. Maybe in a couple of years the discussion would have more merit.

I like him, but there's a fair bit of overestimation of Dawes in this thread. The next Neitz? On what basis?

Early signs are that he'll be a good pick up and settle into his role well, but he still has it all to do performance wise and he also needs to stay on the field. He doesn't deserve a captaincy nod ahead of any of Jones, Grimes or Garland. Maybe in a couple of years the discussion would have more merit.

The next Neitz in the sense he is a commanding physical presence, is a smart footballer, and smart bloke, and he has great leadership potential. The comment was made in response to a poster who said only mid fielders should be captain. I don't agree and used Neitz as the exception to the rule and cited his physical intimidation as being important, something we don't have but Dawes has the size and physique to maybe develop it (under the tutor ledge of DN hImself of course).

Anyone read the comments from Trengove in today's HUN?

Basically says he would like to remain captain but will take a lesser role if that helps the club.

Sounds like a great attitude

I suspect we will have a new single captain next year who will be a little older than the current duo.

Wait, make Dawes, injury ravaged in 2013, played one good game for us, abandoned by the Pies after 2012 for a 30 year old and then recruited possibly only because we had the worst coach in AFL history running the club, captain of the Melbourne Football Club? Hell, why didn't make Rodan and Byrnes captains? May as well recruit Mitch Morton and make him captain, he's a premiership player. It's stupid to think Nathan Jones SHOULDN'T be captain, where has he gone wrong? N.Jones © C.Garland (vc), it's that simple

Wait, make Dawes, injury ravaged in 2013, played one good game for us, abandoned by the Pies after 2012 for a 30 year old and then recruited possibly only because we had the worst coach in AFL history running the club, captain of the Melbourne Football Club? Hell, why didn't make Rodan and Byrnes captains? May as well recruit Mitch Morton and make him captain, he's a premiership player. It's stupid to think Nathan Jones SHOULDN'T be captain, where has he gone wrong? N.Jones © C.Garland (vc), it's that simple

Ok, I am late to this thread because the premise is an over reaction and not going to happen but can we just cool off some of the rhetoric when it comes to injured players, especially ones that were recently recruited - he played through that and looked just awful in a couple because he wanted to be out there as we needed the body and the leadership. If we had a bell curve at this club to measure who was worth their cheque: Chris Dawes would rate very highly.

He does not deserve to be pilloried because he was recruited by Neeld or because Collingwood 'abandoned' him. They made a mistake and we benefitted.

That should please you more than it apparently does.

The Pies let him leave to play a forward structure they abandoned (there's that word again) because Lynch could not do what Dawes did not want to do, and play second ruck. They then added Witts and then Grundy to help Jolly then Hudson rather than have Lynch do it, and as the season wore on Ben Reid was more useful than Lynch.

He won't be captain but he IS a good player with a good playing record for 4 seasons previous to this injury riddled one and I am very glad that Rd 1, 2014 will see him stand near Jesse Hogan as he begins his career.