perhaps the reasoning behind persisting with picking Watts has more to do with leveraging for a post season trade. its hard for the footy dept to argue his worth if that same footy dept drops him for the last few weeks of the season. the club is positioning itself for a trade

perhaps the reasoning behind persisting with picking Watts has more to do with leveraging for a post season trade. its hard for the footy dept to argue his worth if that same footy dept drops him for the last few weeks of the season. the club is positioning itself for a trade

I would give tp $200 for Watts but I want some change.

If the word is already out there about Watts.

Turns it over with poor disposal.

If he was creative, made good decisions, and executed delivery he'd be playing. The fact that he struggles to get a game in arguably the worst midfield in history should probably tell you something.

Replacing crap with crap wouldn't make any difference, other than supporters think the club is trying stuff.

Know what I mean ?

Agree. Honest earnest but ordinary.

He deserves to be picked on the back of his performance on the weekend. We need to be careful that we are not sucked by the possession numbers against a feeble sub VFL standard side. I have seen enough of him to determine that he should go at year end...along with a host of others.

its abit strange surely jones could use another big body and matt jones is probably due for a rest

I'll be right next to ya Demonfan26.

This club has no midfield. We are crying out for an in and under clearance winner.. "Cough-Moloney-cough"

Had 20 touches both weeks he played this year for us!

Has to be given a go.. Would rather him that Straus or Rohan fail!

Classic brad Sewell type, but remember this club doesn't look for players willing to do the hard work..

We are all about the Jack Watts and Cale Morton types..

All I can think is that he had told the club to get stuffed and will be looking else where like Brad Miller did!

Good luck and fair enough!

If he doesn't come in this week, considering his performance and the three injuries, I might have to leave a steaming turd on the doorstep of the MFC offices.

Sorry meant to quote this man!

Even if he does not play another game for the MFC he'll be able to tell his grand-kids that he was equal 4th highest scorer in 2012 Club Brownlow Votes and 2nd highest Average Disposal Getter in 2013.

Magner kicked 2 goals against Brisbane last year and had 23 disposals. Brisbane had a very strong midfield in on the day too.

Magner scored 2 brownlow votes that day coming second to Simon Black.

Some players (albeit rarely) play better footy at the top level.

I hope Magner is one of them.

Except for the above game Neeld played him as a tagger or defensive forward.......

Give him the last 2 games (without a collar on) and let him show us if he worth a spot on the list.

Magner kicked 2 goals against Brisbane last year and had 23 disposals. Brisbane had a very strong midfield in on the day too.Magner scored 2 brownlow votes that day coming second to Simon Black. Some players (albeit rarely) play better footy at the top level.I hope Magner is one of them. Except for the above game Neeld played him as a tagger or defensive forward....... Give him the last 2 games (without a collar on) and let him show us if he worth a spot on the list.

His 2 goals came from an uncontested mark and a second goal straight after from the hit he got after the mark. The ball didn't go back to the middle. He was barely serviceable otherwise, and I remember being surprised at his brownlow votes. There was a sinking feeling that day also that the talk about him from preseason being the next Michael Barlow just wasn't going to be the case. He was slow with poor disposal and with average to poor decision making. Tough as nails, which makes him very likeable, but a player whose failings are readily exploited by the opposition.

The fact that he struggles to get a game in arguably the worst midfield in history should probably tell you something.

That's what the OP is questioning. Why isn't he getting a game...

His 2 goals came from an uncontested mark and a second goal straight after from the hit he got after the mark. The ball didn't go back to the middle. He was barely serviceable otherwise, and I remember being surprised at his brownlow votes. There was a sinking feeling that day also that the talk about him from preseason being the next Michael Barlow just wasn't going to be the case. He was slow with poor disposal and with average to poor decision making. Tough as nails, which makes him very likeable, but a player whose failings are readily exploited by the opposition.

I wish we had some more players who contributed at such 'barely serviceable' levels:

http://finalsiren.com/MatchDetails.asp?GameID=5837&Code=38fadf47819ec49ad53629a7cc2298c8

MUST PLAY THIS WEEK AGST CROWS

He isn't part of our future and neither is Rodan or Byrnes or ten other rubbish players on our list.

However we have to reward form, otherwise we give the kids coming through no motivation to work hard at Casey.

That's what the OP is questioning. Why isn't he getting a game...

Seems pretty obvious?

The guy can win contested ball, but that's it.

You need to be able to do more than that to play AFL.

As others have already alluded to.

Seems pretty obvious?

The guy can win contested ball, but that's it.

You need to be able to do more than that to play AFL.

As others have already alluded to.

I beg to differ that thats all he offers.

I havnt looked at stats from last year, but how can he have scored so well on supercoach and the like if his disposal was that bad that he now doesn't deserve a game.

Off the top of my head, beneficial skills that he brings include his aggressive attack on the ball, in and under work, high tackle count, clearance work, hard ball gets, and can effectively play a tagging role.

Maybe in a developed team such as geelong he would not get a game, but with melbournes and his VFL performances this year, surely he deserves a go.

In fact, with his VFL stats each week, it seems ridiculous that he cannot get a start in the worst midfield in the comp.

No it's not. This is the MFC you're talking about. Nothing new. No sense for common sense. Been like this for 3 to 4 decades.

He would be a massive help for nathan jones and jack viney. Just another big body to bust through packs and create a contest. But like others i am absolutely gobsmack how they continue to play blokes likes Byrnes Blease and even Jack Watts ahead of this bloke..

Regular "average" performers rack up game after game at this club whilst those who seemingly deserve a game (from the outside looking in anyway) ignored for far too long or just completely left to rot. The 2 highlighted are getting most of their possessions on the "outside" (uncontested) which would be nice IF they impacted on the scoreboard or through decent number of goal assists etc (Byrnes ranked 11th here on average and Watts 16th). While we desperately need inside mids to clear and get first possessions, as well as tackle and lock downs for repeat stopagges. Magner would also have been handy as an additional number just to rotate through the mid and give the likes of N Jones a rest more often, either on the bench or resting forward.

And why upgrade the guy if you are not going to play him!

Yet another perplexing decision by the Melbourne Pigeons FD.

It is ridiculous that 1) it took us forever to upgrade him after Clarks injury and 2) once upgraded we refuse to play him. It beggars belief that he is less deserving than some of the guys rotating in and out of the side all year.

The club is rediculous as a whole and has been since 186. That's why it's a laughing stock.

Obviously lacks speed and also doesn't seem able to impact AFL with endurance either ie. doesn't rack up uncontested disposals at AFL level.

The first Freo game we got belted when Magner played. This time we went for Jones, Viney, McKenzie, Sylvia predominately with also Grimes and Trengove as the inside midfielders. Put Magner in and you take one of those guys out. Now I'd be happy for Grimes to go back to half back or for Sylvia to play half forward and rotate in to the midfield to give Magner 2 weeks just to see what he can do but I don't hold high hopes.

The big questions are:

1. Do you ever think Magner will be AFL standard?

2. Will playing Magner make an impact on the scoreboard ie. will he perform any better than Viney, McKenzie, Sylvia or Grimes do in the midfield

If your answer to both those questions is NO then you wouldn't play him if he had 100 possessions. Same for Rodan.

Firstly, that isn't what Magner's built for. Inside mid all the way. Not sure why you're wanting to turn him into an outsider. That's what we recruited pickles, Blease, Toumpas etc for. Would you expect Jack to be a major outside "uncontested" ball winner rather than his contested and clearance work? I hope not.

With regards to the players you highlighted, here are the average stats per game for each player up to round 15 and their rankings in the various relevant categories that relate to general mid field/stoppage work. I've included uncontested to see where they sit there as well from a versatility/spread/endurance point of view.....

Contested

1. N Jones (10.43)

2. Magner (10.00)

3. Grimes (9.17)

4. Viney (8.67)

6. Sylvia (7.64)

7. McKenzie (7.63)

10. Trengove (6.00)

Clearances

1. N Jones (5.64)

2. Magner (5.00)

3. Viney (4.17)

5. Grimes (3.33)

6. McKenzie (3.13)

7. Sylvia (2.91)

16. Trengove (1.33)

Tackles

1. Magner (6.0)

2. Trengove (5.25)

3. Sylvia (4.64)

6. Grimes (4.17)

7. McKenzie (4.13)

9. Viney (3.83)

14. N Jones (3.00)

Uncontested

3. N Jones (12.79)

5. Grimes (11.67)

6. Sylvia (11.55)

10. Magner (10.50)

10. Trengove (10.50)

15. Mckenzie (9.13)

24. Viney (6.67)

Effective Disposals

1. N Jones (17.00)

3. Grimes (15.67)

6. Magner (13.00)

9. Sylvia (12.55)

11. McKenzie (12.13)

14. Trengove (11.00)

21. Viney (8.50)

Other than being a few places behind Grimes in "effective disposals" and without placing too much emphasis on uncontested given it's more outside work for those suited to it, as you can see Magner is ranked higher than the players you mentioned (ie., Viney, McKenzie, Sylvia & Grimes) in Question 2 in all other stats.

In relation to Question 1, based on these stats i'm not sure many of our mid field stocks are AFL capable at this point with the exception of N Jones, Grimes and possibly Magner. That's not to say Magner would be capable of keeping up this standard through an entire season (or a more meaningful number of AFL games), but it would seem he'll never be given that chance from here even though he earned it in the few games he was given before being dropped. Although i haven't included Viney, i don't think i would be alone here in believing he is more than likely going to overtake the others given enough pre seasons, decent coaching and luck with injury. In fact if all goes well, i'm sure he could be our first champion since Mr R Flower graced the hallowed turf of the G decades ago.

Turns it over with poor disposal.

If he was creative, made good decisions, and executed delivery he'd be playing. The fact that he struggles to get a game in arguably the worst midfield in history should probably tell you something.

Nathan Jones led the Clanger count up to round 15 with 5.64 average clangers per game. Just ahead of Magner (5.00), Viney (4.17), Rodan (3.75), Grimes (3.33), McKenzie (3.13) and Sylvia (2.91).

Based on your premise almost our entire mid field should be struggling to get a game, Viney and N Jones included. That doesn't mean your assessment is wrong, just limited with regards to it's gaze.

Never thought I'd ever say this.....

Play Magner.

Drop Watts.

Jumbo i never thought i'd see the day you saw the light. How wrong i was. Magner is not the messiah and more than likely not a long term answer to our mid field woes, but he's a mile ahead of Watts in terms of an honest hard nosed never-say-die contest and 2nd efforts (albeit he struggles to get there quickly at times, at least he tries!). Sometimes lessor stuff (in the eyes of some) like that can be just as or even more inspirational and motivating to your team mates as the silky/showy stuff.

Unfortunately we'll never get to see whether these theories and speculation might have some basis.

Magner will surely move on or be moved on shortly having never been given a fair shot at proving anything to anyone. At least not at the MFC anyway.

No it's not. This is the MFC you're talking about. Nothing new. No sense for common sense. Been like this for 3 to 4 decades.

Regular "average" performers rack up game after game at this club whilst those who seemingly deserve a game (from the outside looking in anyway) ignored for far too long or just completely left to rot. The 2 highlighted are getting most of their possessions on the "outside" (uncontested) which would be nice IF they impacted on the scoreboard or through decent number of goal assists etc (Byrnes ranked 11th here on average and Watts 16th). While we desperately need inside mids to clear and get first possessions, as well as tackle and lock downs for repeat stopagges. Magner would also have been handy as an additional number just to rotate through the mid and give the likes of N Jones a rest more often, either on the bench or resting forward.

Yet another perplexing decision by the Melbourne Pigeons FD.

The club is rediculous as a whole and has been since 186. That's why it's a laughing stock.

Firstly, that isn't what Magner's built for. Inside mid all the way. Not sure why you're wanting to turn him into an outsider. That's what we recruited pickles, Blease, Toumpas etc for. Would you expect Jack to be a major outside "uncontested" ball winner rather than his contested and clearance work? I hope not.

With regards to the players you highlighted, here are the average stats per game for each player up to round 15 and their rankings in the various relevant categories that relate to general mid field/stoppage work. I've included uncontested to see where they sit there as well from a versatility/spread/endurance point of view.....

Contested

1. N Jones (10.43)

2. Magner (10.00)

3. Grimes (9.17)

4. Viney (8.67)

6. Sylvia (7.64)

7. McKenzie (7.63)

10. Trengove (6.00)

Clearances

1. N Jones (5.64)

2. Magner (5.00)

3. Viney (4.17)

5. Grimes (3.33)

6. McKenzie (3.13)

7. Sylvia (2.91)

16. Trengove (1.33)

Tackles

1. Magner (6.0)

2. Trengove (5.25)

3. Sylvia (4.64)

6. Grimes (4.17)

7. McKenzie (4.13)

9. Viney (3.83)

14. N Jones (3.00)

Uncontested

3. N Jones (12.79)

5. Grimes (11.67)

6. Sylvia (11.55)

10. Magner (10.50)

10. Trengove (10.50)

15. Mckenzie (9.13)

24. Viney (6.67)

Effective Disposals

1. N Jones (17.00)

3. Grimes (15.67)

6. Magner (13.00)

9. Sylvia (12.55)

11. McKenzie (12.13)

14. Trengove (11.00)

21. Viney (8.50)

Other than being a few places behind Grimes in "effective disposals" and without placing too much emphasis on uncontested given it's more outside work for those suited to it, as you can see Magner is ranked higher than the players you mentioned (ie., Viney, McKenzie, Sylvia & Grimes) in Question 2 in all other stats.

In relation to Question 1, based on these stats i'm not sure many of our mid field stocks are AFL capable at this point with the exception of N Jones, Grimes and possibly Magner. That's not to say Magner would be capable of keeping up this standard through an entire season (or a more meaningful number of AFL games), but it would seem he'll never be given that chance from here even though he earned it in the few games he was given before being dropped. Although i haven't included Viney, i don't think i would be alone here in believing he is more than likely going to overtake the others given enough pre seasons, decent coaching and luck with injury. In fact if all goes well, i'm sure he could be our first champion since Mr R Flower graced the hallowed turf of the G decades ago.

good job

He isn't part of our future and neither is Rodan or Byrnes or ten other rubbish players on our list.

However we have to reward form, otherwise we give the kids coming through no motivation to work hard at Casey.

I don't agree with your logic. Fitzy and Clisby are two players who are playing at AFL level, directly due to their work ethic at Casey!

p.s. That is present tense up until Clisby got unfairly rubbed out.

Surely gets in the 1's this week on reward alone. Along with Taggert.

Not in the team!

Django- hope your building up a steamy one....... leave one for Taggert as well

Would imagine he has been told he will be delisted. Unless injured there seems no other explanation.

His 2 goals came from an uncontested mark and a second goal straight after from the hit he got after the mark. The ball didn't go back to the middle. He was barely serviceable otherwise, and I remember being surprised at his brownlow votes. There was a sinking feeling that day also that the talk about him from preseason being the next Michael Barlow just wasn't going to be the case. He was slow with poor disposal and with average to poor decision making. Tough as nails, which makes him very likeable, but a player whose failings are readily exploited by the opposition.

Most of our players are slow with poor disposal, I guess the worst thing about Magner is he gets it a lot more often than most of the others so he makes more mistakes.

Blease has all the pace in the World, but it's football, not a foot race and if he hasn't got the ball pace isn't much value.

Decision making: Nicho, Terlich, Grimes, etc.etc.