does anyone really care ?

Bubsy, I think if we're fans of the sport and we want it to thrive, then we have to care. There are so many things about the game that are good but unfortunately, it's starting to fall apart with the banned substances scandal, recreational drug taking, tanking, inequities in fixtures, the draft, AFL handouts and selective decision-making. We've developed a very ugly face and recently it's been dominated by some shady characters like Dank, the stupidity of those at the top of leading clubs who greedily hang on to their privileges at top at the expense of others and then you have players like Buddy, Swan, Sam Fisher and the dwarf immolators. Standing among them is Dustin Martin.

Apropos of nothing in particular other than to demonstrate where we are as a sport, this par comes from Crackers Keenan in this week's Inside Football:

Star flushed out of the toilets

There have been a few incidents at this year's Mad Mondays, but one that didn't reach the airwaves concerned one of the AFL's most troublesome off-field performers.

Last week this player was ordered out of an inner-city hotel after he was found using illegal substances in their toilet. Another player from a different club has been specifically ordered not to hang around with him during the break between seasons.

You have to worry about the future of the game when you read this and realise that some such players are being paid $½ million to run around the field.

WJ.. there have always been bad eggs, always been some of little in terms of redeeming qualities and hes one.

That he could go arsse up of his own doing i really couldn't give a fig

Wasn't there a guy called Fevola around recently and a Cousins? Shining examples of wayward talents that rehabilitated themselves at other clubs.

Wasn't there a guy called Fevola around recently and a Cousins? Shining examples of wayward talents that rehabilitated themselves at other clubs.

You couldn't have produced two finer examples of wasted human lives and bad eggs than this duo.

Let's not forget that there's a connection between Cousins and Martin.

When Benny came to Tigerland, one of the players who came under his influence was Daniel Connors who became Martin's roommate and together they shared the experience of some of the delights of life that make these lads such happy boys for a while. Richmond's culture stinks and they must be in a dilemma over this bloke.

Their problem is they now know that Martin's value on the open market is zilch. Caroline Wilson forgot to mention this salient fact in her article. In her eyes as a propagandist for the club she supports, it must hurt her to say that Richmond want to keep him when the reality is that they don't really need or want him but they are stuck with him because there are no takers for this drop kick.

The whole thing has been badly handled by both Richmond and by the Martin camp.

From the sound of it he needs to board with Mr and Mrs Roos

ahh, tag team... do you think they can turn him back into the Sun?

interesting concept, IF he has the mind that can be Opened. needs to be willing & very brave... more than footy brave.

lets see what transpires.....psd?

Wasn't there a guy called Fevola around recently and a Cousins? Shining examples of wayward talents that rehabilitated themselves at other clubs.

.... way back there was a guy called Ian Stewart, who was elite mid cream, & genius, but very shaky. after some years he was swapped with tough nut Billy Barrot.

its a close comparison. but stewart was in a different era with differing media & a Club with a tough coach, footy manager, & playing list.

You couldn't have produced two finer examples of wasted human lives and bad eggs than this duo.

Let's not forget that there's a connection between Cousins and Martin.

When Benny came to Tigerland, one of the players who came under his influence was Daniel Connors who became Martin's roommate and together they shared the experience of some of the delights of life that make these lads such happy boys for a while. Richmond's culture stinks and they must be in a dilemma over this bloke.

Their problem is they now know that Martin's value on the open market is zilch. Caroline Wilson forgot to mention this salient fact in her article. In her eyes as a propagandist for the club she supports, it must hurt her to say that Richmond want to keep him when the reality is that they don't really need or want him but they are stuck with him because there are no takers for this drop kick.

The whole thing has been badly handled by both Richmond and by the Martin camp.

I think your right, & I think he won't be there next year. for the reasons you've stated. the Tiges are a young impressionable list & culture. better with him outa there, & I suspect the commission agree.

Better of without him.....dont need [censored] on our list & if you follow Roos policy on that,its a no brainer!

Lets build & foster culture & development before we start looking at players who have huge personel issues.

Rather have 2 or 3 more Nathen Jones type running around.

Caro has summed it up well this morning. Richmond are stuck with him. No club wants to touch him. His GWS meeting was a complete debacle. No wonder GWS switched off immediately.

And as she has said before its crystal clear who and what the problem.

Martins manager should have his AFL accreditation looked at for his appalling orchestration of this mess.

How clear ?

I'm hearing a story about a video

Wasn't there a guy called Fevola around recently and a Cousins? Shining examples of wayward talents that rehabilitated themselves at other clubs.

Oh, but Cuz only overtook sleeping pils at Tigerland, didn't you know ADC? Lol!

Roosy said that $600k was too much for Martin but I don't recall him ruling him out altogether; perhaps if the price came down it would be a different matter. Not impressed with his off field performance but having him and Swallow in our midfield would certainly improve it.

Roosy would have to be certain he could control him and that may not be possible.

The tigers don't want him he, has no offer on the table; interesting times.

Nothing to get over RR. As much as CW may be your heroine, the criticism is that she is inconsistent in trashing people's reputations, not whether the person deserves to be trashed, and she changes her position to fit in with where her club is at. The behaviour of a partisan, not a journalist.

How would you know there is an inconsistency?? What are you basing that on?

It appears now that apart from some mild interest from coach less Brisbane, at this stage there's only one club that wants Martin and that happens to be Richmond. Wilson's inconsistency is that having excoriated Collingwood and St. Kilda for tolerating their bad boys and then painted Martin as the worst of the worst in her articles earlier in the week, she has hardly a bad word to say about the Richmond Football Club. If she were a true critic and had some integrity she would be straight with Hardwick and the Tigers. A bogan is a bogan no matter what club he plays for and for the good of that club he needs to be cut adrift.

Are Richmond evil for trying to manage him or offering him a new contract? They would appear to be trying to get him on the straight and narrow. And FWIW, there has been plenty of rumours on Martin but both the Pies and StK have had some epic public stuff ups in the past.

Bubsy, I think if we're fans of the sport and we want it to thrive, then we have to care. There are so many things about the game that are good but unfortunately, it's starting to fall apart with the banned substances scandal, recreational drug taking, tanking, inequities in fixtures, the draft, AFL handouts and selective decision-making. We've developed a very ugly face and recently it's been dominated by some shady characters like Dank, the stupidity of those at the top of leading clubs who greedily hang on to their privileges at top at the expense of others and then you have players like Buddy, Swan, Sam Fisher and the dwarf immolators. Standing among them is Dustin Martin.

Apropos of nothing in particular other than to demonstrate where we are as a sport, this par comes from Crackers Keenan in this week's Inside Football:

You have to worry about the future of the game when you read this and realise that some such players are being paid $½ million to run around the field.

Exactly why invesitgative reporters are required to expose those that denigrate the game through dishonesty and/or stupidity and incompetence.

Edited September 22, 201311 yr by Rhino Richards

Their problem is they now know that Martin's value on the open market is zilch. Caroline Wilson forgot to mention this salient fact in her article.

She said no other clubs were interested (which implies the same thing) and that Martin was keen to stay at Richmond.

But Richmond may have to continue the high maintenance mentoring of this young star for 2 more years.

How would you know there is an inconsistency?? What are you basing that on?

What I see written and what I don't see written. Others have spelt it out.

What I see written and what I don't see written.

Gotcha. Right.

And your assessing that against what to determine the inconsistency?

I don't believe Caro has covered herself in glory over this at all. She slammed Martin both on television and in print, and trashed his reputation severely, even highlighting some transgressions that had hitherto only been rumoured (without questioning why Richmond had tolerated them). She painted Martin as the quintessential [censored] who no right thinking club should touch with a ten foot pole. She was full of praise about Richmond's tactic of distancing itself from him and now, she does a 360 and praises the Tigers for happily wanting him back (albeit at their own price).

She pillories every other club in similar situations and hasn't held back on Dane Swan or Sam Fisher. Only the Toigs deserve praise for bringing such a character back into the fold. I strongly suspect that if this was a story about Swan or even Buddy it might be told very differently.

On the other hand she may well be just help orchestrate an advantage for the Tiges who may now be able to contract him for less and use this as a weapon to establish some more control

Another club with astute contract provisions could bid low to get a troublesome gun

It could also make those provisions solid enough to include severe penalties for any infractions.

It would be good to think Melbourne could do this but probably only Roos can know,

Gotcha. Right.

And your assessing that against what to determine the inconsistency?

I don't think you have understood. Try this - If Pravda writes extensively and critically about the US invasion of Vietnam but fails to write about the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia, we conclude Pravda is inconsistent in its criticisms. And no, I'm not saying CW is evil enough to work for Pravda, or that this is a perfect analogy. I'm just making the point that we know from other sources what things she hasn't written about. Others have written, but she ignores. That's against what we assess her inconsistency.

Cannot for the life of me understand why you defend her all the time. Just because some others attack her all the time? But why go overboard? Why not at least say 'she is good, but her approach to reporting her own club is not good'?

But your example is where you are aware of all the issues (Vietnam and Czech.). There is whole of information that is and in some cases may be out there that has not been put in the public arena via the media.

Jack hit on a good point when he referenced Peter Keenan with unnamed footballer. Under the banner of mentoring many clubs work so hard to prevent and mitigate the self destruction and impact on others and from others (support network) that the really bad culture sores cause. In a number of cases Clubs have been to some level successful in the mitigation and prevention stakes. And matters have not got to media scrutiny. I believe that basing things just on what is written and published is a partial picture. And in many of the high profile cases, there are as many non public events as there are public ones. And in a small industry the Clubs know each each clubs culture problems and some like Martin paint their own reputation.

As for Wilson, its not that I defend her all the time. I just don't participate in the Pythonesque village scene antics in the routine condemnation of her. She is a hard journalist but she is hard on those that frack up.

As for Wilson, its not that I defend her all the time. I just don't participate in the Pythonesque village scene antics in the routine condemnation of her. She is a hard journalist but she is hard on those that frack up.

So you cannot at least add to your last sentence 'except when it involves Richmond'.

You don't have to join the village antics, but don't go to the opposite extreme and say the sky is red just because all the villagers say it is blue just to show your independence of mind.

You imply there is no evidence that there were bad things involving Richmond which she had ignored? Funny how she herself suddenly found and published things about Martin that others had published before and she had ignored. In any case, there was enough scuttlebutt about Martin that any serious unbiased investigative journalist would have looked into. I doubt she had investigated and found 'all clear' so didn't publish (though rebutting those who had would make sense in that case). Instead in her recent article she suddenly discovers all the bad things about Martin. Smacks of Richmond protectionism to me in the past, and possibly she is still acting in Richmond's interests if one believes the village conspiracy theorists.

Sure CW is more of a journalist than most of her colleagues. Sadly, it doesn't take much to do so.

Roosy said that $600k was too much for Martin but I don't recall him ruling him out altogether; perhaps if the price came down it would be a different matter. Not impressed with his off field performance but having him and Swallow in our midfield would certainly improve it.

Roosy would have to be certain he could control him and that may not be possible.

The tigers don't want him he, has no offer on the table; interesting times.

I would think that Paul Roos is not prepared to take on a known 'basket case' and is using the 'price is too high' excuse as a more politically correct 'thanks, but no thanks'.

RR - I happen to know a few journos and it is well known that with her many sources at Tigerland she does not jump on Richmond until others have got there first.

'That story about BLAH, I had no idea, good copy.'

'Sure you didn't, Caro.'

I read somewhere that Brisbane is interested in Martin, which (if true) I'm shocked about given the way Fev burnt their club and culture.

I read somewhere that Brisbane is interested in Martin, which (if true) I'm shocked about given the way Fev burnt their club and culture.

I reckon Brisbane have to take a long hard look at their ability to retain their current players than trying to get Martin but it wouldn't surprise me.

Wonder what they would offer both contract wise and trade wise...

Ugh. It beggars belief. Even with comedy act that's been in the past week some still don't get it.

dont get what?

Martin can play football... That's all that matters to me... I dont care what he does outside the matches....

Richmond have set their media dogs on him and its looking like they might have won here....

BTW.... When are going to give my warning point back:/