2nd rounder will do me!

It's also called moving on.

Cut your losses and you're not only removing an under performing liability, you're shifting a culture.

If Watts was playing at another club and they kept saying what a great bloke he is, what talent he has, how he's coming on and above all that, that he is a 'required player', I think we'd wonder how serious they were.

Unfortunately Jack is the perfect barometer of our club. He seems to be an articulate and likeable young man who is not willing or not able to mix it with the rough and tough world of AFL football.

Might he 'come on' with a new coach? Perhaps. Might he become a regular top performer for us? Unlikely.

Can we get someone in a trade deal with a tougher attitude who might help solve some of our problems - such as a good mid-fielder? It's worth a try.

Yeah, you're probably right.

It's my way of explaining a lack of work ethic that I can't understand. It helps me to generalise so I've got something to pin my frustrations on at times like these. Probably unfair to hang it on Gen Y. I'm sure there are lots of good hard working youngsters out there. They're just not at MFC.

Lol - thats ok im taking my frustration out on Jack Watts who mostly deserves it but not to the extent that he is responsible for our plight.

Watts is the new Travis Johnstone. So much talent, such little effort.

Watts is the new Travis Johnstone. So much talent, such little effort.

Yes.....but.

TJ played some magnificent games for the Club and nearly won a Brownlow in his third or fourth year.

Watts is the new Travis Johnstone. So much talent, such little effort

.I dont think Travis's problem was so much effort.I saw games where he regaled against the paltry efforts of his team mates. I think there were other Demons for Trav.

Lol - thats ok im taking my frustration out on Jack Watts who mostly deserves it but not to the extent that he is responsible for our plight.

Not responsible for it but symptomatic of it.

.I dont think Travis's problem was so much effort.I saw games where he regaled against the paltry efforts of his team mates. I think there were other Demons for Trav.

I've heard that too BB.

I am so over Watts,

Stay or go I really don't care anymore.

Not responsible for it but symptomatic of it.

yep.

Exactly!!

This says it all for me, if Watts goes we will be worse off, continuing our downward spiral.

Worse off ??? HAHAHAHAHAHA Joke of the week... ... HaHaHaHaHaHaHa stop it...Give him away pleeeeeease !!....

I've given up.

After what he said on the footy show, and his efforts on the weekend. (and by efforts I mean 'run around kick in the park')

The sooner we trade him off for a midfielder of worth, the better. He is absolutely without a doubt not contributing to any sort of change at the club and clearly doesn't want to.

It doesn't matter who the [censored] coach will be next year. His chasing efforts highlighted already in the game against Freo are nothing short of astonishing. There is no player within the AFL who shows such a lack of desire to chase or tackle. He actually plays as though it's a kick in the park.

He is a [censored] disgrace. Move him on.

This is asset destruction. You can't run a club like this.

If he is worth more to us than we can get for him - then we keep him.

If all he will be is a HBF with a great skills then he is worth more than ND30.

List management is an artform in need of some science and shoving Watts out the door for ND 30 is terrible list management.

We have managed to turn ND3 into Brock McLean into Jordan Gysberts into Cam Pedersen.

That is asset destruction.

I am going to pick on a point here. Why is it that you continue to live in the past.

In the past, our list management/recruiting has been shocking which has led to us drafting and trading in players such as Gysberts and Pederson.

Why do you believe the same thing will happen under a newly structured list management department and newly appointed head recruiter?

We have no idea how much change is going on internally in those areas of our footy club except when there are announcements of new roles taken by certain people.

But in terms of the type of players and personalities we will be bringing in to change this place for good, I don't imagine we'll be picking up any more players like Gysberts.

In fact it's as clear as day that it won't happen again.

No-one has ever questioned Jones' work ethic, hardness, competitiveness or endeavour. Watts has never shown any of the above.

Just before jones started to play well, there were threads like this about him.....

'Keep' was killing the race until his appearance on the footy show.

No-one has ever questioned Jones' work ethic, hardness, competitiveness or endeavour. Watts has never shown any of the above.

Minor point maybe, but I don't think his competitiveness is in question. By all reports he is an extremely competitive person, which might explain why the club's performance has weighed so heavily on him.

He is competitive, he just doesn't seem willing, or perhaps even able, to do the things to COMPETE. i.e. the other things you mention.

I am going to pick on a point here. Why is it that you continue to live in the past.

In the past, our list management/recruiting has been shocking which has led to us drafting and trading in players such as Gysberts and Pederson.

Why do you believe the same thing will happen under a newly structured list management department and newly appointed head recruiter?

We have no idea how much change is going on internally in those areas of our footy club except when there are announcements of new roles taken by certain people.

But in terms of the type of players and personalities we will be bringing in to change this place for good, I don't imagine we'll be picking up any more players like Gysberts.

In fact it's as clear as day that it won't happen again.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Peter Jackson has said in his short tenure that the most important role at a footy club is that of managing the list.

It is our investment file and I don't even care that Watts was Pick 1 in the draft he is an asset that shouldn't be thrown away because of a failure to meet expectations or his dithering over a new contract or his stance in public over staying at the club.

If it is determined that we cannot get a commensurate asset in return for Watts then we keep him and trust our new FD (if you want to talk about trusting new processes over the failures of the past) to get him to be a contributor in the future.

I understand Watts has done himself no favors of late with the FS performance or his efforts in the last few games. He's certainly given his haters plenty of ammunition (though its funny that he was arguably our best player in our win over the doggies). I was

I wish he had come out and said i'm here to stay and i will help the club move forward and am disappointed that he hasn't. But i am firmly in the dwindling we have to keep him camp.

He is reaching that 80 game mark and even though you could argue we haven't developed him as well as might have it would be a shame to see another team reap the benefit of that development period.

Leaving aside the concerns about his application etc he is a terrific player with the skills we so sorely lack. Win win trades are by dar the exception not the rule and i am very skeptical we will get a decent player in any trade.

Also i like him. Yes he's not Viney and he sorely lacks leadership qualities but he seems like a top bloke and that's not to be sniffed at. By all accounts his team mates love him and a team needs all sorts to make it work, including the laconic stoner types. Not wishing to enter a debate with BH but he is obviously one of the more vociferous JW haters. Which is his prerogative of course. But i recall BH noting he had underestimated the impact of cutting players like Moloney, Pettard and Rivers on team morale and team cohesiveness. I fear losing Watts would have a similar impact.

All that said i reckon we should play hard ball. If we cannot get a top shelf player in any trade force him to decide between staying or going to GWS. I don't care about forcing a player to stay who wanted out. They can be turned around and we certainly don't need any more bloody b graders.

This is asset destruction. You can't run a club like this.

If he is worth more to us than we can get for him - then we keep him.

If all he will be is a HBF with a great skills then he is worth more than ND30.

List management is an artform in need of some science and shoving Watts out the door for ND 30 is terrible list management.

We have managed to turn ND3 into Brock McLean into Jordan Gysberts into Cam Pedersen.

That is asset destruction.

With our new list management, head of recruiting and beefed up recruiting team, how is it that you know they will deem Watts more valuable than an ND30? You don't, so why assume that he is worth more than an ND30?

The point is we have no idea. Yes list management is an artform, but that doesn't mean they won't trade him out if it means we can get our hands on a player in the draft with the skill set and mindset that will help change this place. If they can't, then as you say, maybe he is worth keeping.

I would say there are many players out there who would offer a lot more than Watts atm.

With our new list management, head of recruiting and beefed up recruiting team, how is it that you know they will deem Watts more valuable than an ND30? You don't, so why assume that he is worth more than an ND30?

The point is we have no idea. Yes list management is an artform, but that doesn't mean they won't trade him out if it means we can get our hands on a player in the draft with the skill set and mindset that will help change this place. If they can't, then as you say, maybe he is worth keeping.

I would say there are many players out there who would offer a lot more than Watts atm.

Nup, he's gone. Move on. Bargain basement. Grand sale.

Agree with much of this until the Gen Y rant. Totally irrelevant, discriminatory and inflammatory.

I think the "Gen Y" thing has a lot to do with attitudes. Why or how can you say it's discriminatory ? What is discriminatory about it ? The older the world gets the softer and more demanding the generations have become... I am stating the facts as I have seen them over a few decades, Spoiled Brats many elite sportsmen of the Gen Y era are... Inflammatory ? hardly... That is exactly what's wrong with a lot of Gen Y's.......Soft.. toughen up !! None of them know what it is like to play on muddy grounds or feel a shirt front from an opponent or even a bloody good bump.. The game is becoming as soft as Watts... I expect to be howled down by some on here but I am not easily upset.. Fire away... I am not "Gen Y" they didn't exist until someone thought of a fancy label to put on them..I want to see more real men playing for the MFC...Men with pride in the jumper they are playing for (and getting well paid for)..Rant over... Not enough time to write a hundred pages on the subject.. which wouldn't be too hard..

I think the "Gen Y" thing has a lot to do with attitudes. Why or how can you say it's discriminatory ? What is discriminatory about it ? The older the world gets the softer and more demanding the generations have become... I am stating the facts as I have seen them over a few decades, Spoiled Brats many elite sportsmen of the Gen Y era are... Inflammatory ? hardly... That is exactly what's wrong with a lot of Gen Y's.......Soft.. toughen up !! None of them know what it is like to play on muddy grounds or feel a shirt front from an opponent or even a bloody good bump.. The game is becoming as soft as Watts... I expect to be howled down by some on here but I am not easily upset.. Fire away... I am not "Gen Y" they didn't exist until someone thought of a fancy label to put on them..I want to see more real men playing for the MFC...Men with pride in the jumper they are playing for (and getting well paid for)..Rant over... Not enough time to write a hundred pages on the subject.. which wouldn't be too hard..

Who do you think made them soft?? Maybe the generations are more demanding because there are increasing problems in the world that the next generation has too fight. This is totally discriminatory and patronising. For someone of your 'status' as a superior this is incredibly childish.

Back on topic, we need more guys like Jack Viney and less like Watts. Watts represents everything wrong with this club and I hope more people stop seeing him as a #1 pick who will come good and more of a weak Brighton Grammar Boy.

Nup, he's gone. Move on. Bargain basement. Grand sale.

Yes, I understand where you sit JR.

However, I would say I'd rather have him than another sellar, rodan or pederson. I'm sure you would too.

Who do you think made them soft?? Maybe the generations are more demanding because there are increasing problems in the world that the next generation has too fight. This is totally discriminatory and patronising. For someone of your 'status' as a superior this is incredibly childish.

Back on topic, we need more guys like Jack Viney and less like Watts. Watts represents everything wrong with this club and I hope more people stop seeing him as a #1 pick who will come good and more of a weak Brighton Grammar Boy.

My status ? Superior ? and there's that word again.. "discriminatory".. You have just confirmed in part what the original Poster of the "Gen Y" comment was implying... Quote... t's a Gen Y thing to blame failure on others and wait for someone else to fix it....Let's agree to slightly disagree and move on.. I agree with the first sentence of your last paragraph your second sentence of that paragraph may be labelled as "discriminatory".... oops.! ... We obviously do have something in common... I like your pluck and the fact you took some time to let me know how you felt about my Gen Y comment.. I will cop it but I don't altogether agree with your assessment that I am childish,, ..... You have a right to express your opinion and I respect the fact you have one in this instance... Stick with the Dees .. We need young supporters... Hopefully your faith will be rewarded in due course... (for the sake of all MFC faithful)...

No-one has ever questioned Jones' work ethic, hardness, competitiveness or endeavour. Watts has never shown any of the above.

i would trade Watts for Jurrah....