On 28/10/2014 at 00:58, deanox said:

Well we play them in our last NAB challenge match on March 20.

do we ??

Can't see how Charter being charged helps Essendon. Surely the fact that he was supplying drugs to Dank is further evidence of how poor the governance was and that his charges prove he can source steriod and illegal drugs like thy 4.

As for the argument that because he has been charged this somehow makes him a less credible witness, please. He sent four years in jail for drug importation. If he was credible before this charge, then this latest charge certainly doesn't make him less so.

  On 28/10/2014 at 01:06, binman said:

Can't see how Charter being charged helps Essendon. Surely the fact that he was supplying drugs to Dank is further evidence of how poor the governance was and that his charges prove he can source steriod and illegal drugs like thy 4.

As for the argument that because he has been charged this somehow makes him a less credible witness, please. He sent four years in jail for drug importation. If he was credible before this charge, then this latest charge certainly doesn't make him less so.

Im somehow guessing that the Hillers are hoping this scuttles ASADAs ability to progress the hearing/tribunal.. Having said that like you Bin I don't see how that's likely. Then again essendon have misread a lot about the procedural nature of all this and seem to be blindly shooting ( npi ) down any alleyway in the hope of hitting something of value. In reality the only collateral damage is their own club

  On 28/10/2014 at 00:04, daisycutter said:

maybe they could allow the bans to be spread evenly over the season?

just a thought

WADA doesnt give a stuff about the competition. They won't want to let them spread the pain. They want scalps. The bigger the better. They want to inflict punishment. Its the only deterrent they have.

WADA want to send a message to teams around the world. Don't mees with this stuff or we'll get you.

  On 28/10/2014 at 01:06, binman said:

Can't see how Charter being charged helps Essendon. Surely the fact that he was supplying drugs to Dank is further evidence of how poor the governance was and that his charges prove he can source steriod and illegal drugs like thy 4.

As for the argument that because he has been charged this somehow makes him a less credible witness, please. He sent four years in jail for drug importation. If he was credible before this charge, then this latest charge certainly doesn't make him less so.

The argument would be that his evidence is discredited because he is a (insert, word of choice: druggie, criminal, liar etc etc)

ASADA can't rely on that.

But they aren't soley relying on that. They have a lot of emails, verbal evidence, interviews etc etc that all lead to the one (even if circumstantial) conclusion....

  On 28/10/2014 at 01:58, jnrmac said:

WADA doesnt give a stuff about the competition. They won't want to let them spread the pain. They want scalps. The bigger the better. They want to inflict punishment. Its the only deterrent they have.

WADA want to send a message to teams around the world. Don't mees with this stuff or we'll get you.

well it's actually the afl who set the punishments, admittedly under wada/asada guidlines

wada also do allow "deals" so at least in theory it might be possible

it was only an idea to help the impact of the punishment be more equitable to the other innocent teams

but yeah, highly unlikely

  On 28/10/2014 at 02:03, daisycutter said:

well it's actually the afl who set the punishments, admittedly under wada/asada guidlines

wada also do allow "deals" so at least in theory it might be possible

it was only an idea to help the impact of the punishment be more equitable to the other innocent teams

but yeah, highly unlikely

WADA can appeal like they did with Ahmed Saad and that Wade Lees fellow...

  On 28/10/2014 at 02:03, daisycutter said:

well it's actually the afl who set the punishments, admittedly under wada/asada guidlines

wada also do allow "deals" so at least in theory it might be possible

it was only an idea to help the impact of the punishment be more equitable to the other innocent teams

but yeah, highly unlikely

the easiest way to spread it across a season is...........

So do the Drugs get penalised by ASADA and then the AFL for drug cheating, or will it only be one? They (AFL) punished them for bad governance- once drug use has been proved do they punish them for that too, along withASADA, providing double fireworks for us?

  On 28/10/2014 at 02:05, jnrmac said:

WADA can appeal like they did with Ahmed Saad and that Wade Lees fellow...

of course they can

if they weren't happy with such an arrangement

but how do you know they wouldn't be happy in that hypothetical

  On 28/10/2014 at 02:05, beelzebub said:

the easiest way to spread it across a season is...........

we know bub

it was just a hypothetical based on each player getting a part season ban as raised by a previous poster who pointed out the disproportionate impact on some other clubs

the suggestion was not intended to benefit ess in any way

  On 28/10/2014 at 02:12, sweet dee said:

So do the Drugs get penalised by ASADA and then the AFL for drug cheating, or will it only be one? They (AFL) punished them for bad governance- once drug use has been proved do they punish them for that too, along withASADA, providing double fireworks for us?

Of course they should. It's like the New Years Eve fireworks... you have the warm up display at 9pm for the kiddies (AFL sanctions) followed by the big impressive display at midnight (ASADA sanctions).

If The Drugs are banned completely from the whole competition, where does that leave the players that didn't take part in the drug taking- the Zahas, Gwilt, Goddards and Giles etc? Could they be free to join other clubs through a special draft, why should they be penalised?

Would love me some Zaha!

.. And some junior Daniher

  On 28/10/2014 at 02:12, sweet dee said:

So do the Drugs get penalised by ASADA and then the AFL for drug cheating, or will it only be one? They (AFL) punished them for bad governance- once drug use has been proved do they punish them for that too, along withASADA, providing double fireworks for us?

ASADA impose individual sanctions upon players as per result of SCN's. Penalty is delivered by the AFL after deliberation of AFL Anti Doping Tribunal. You can bet ASADA will be sitting at their shoulders during this. Gill theDill will need to tread very carefully here or he'll be made to look like a schmuck!!

However ASADA can also dish out its own justice to the club itself.. The AFL has already slapped the Hillers with its lettuce here

  On 28/10/2014 at 02:21, hardtack said:

Of course they should. It's like the New Years Eve fireworks... you have the warm up display at 9pm for the kiddies (AFL sanctions) followed by the big impressive display at midnight (ASADA sanctions).

I'd expect an exclusion from the first round of the 2015 draft also.. Can't have them benefiting from the consequences of their weakened list.

i can't see them surviving in their current form for more than a couple of seasons.. They will probably need a re-branding of sorts or face an eternity of being known as cheaters lol

  On 28/10/2014 at 01:06, binman said:

Can't see how Charter being charged helps Essendon. Surely the fact that he was supplying drugs to Dank is further evidence of how poor the governance was and that his charges prove he can source steriod and illegal drugs like thy 4.

As for the argument that because he has been charged this somehow makes him a less credible witness, please. He sent four years in jail for drug importation. If he was credible before this charge, then this latest charge certainly doesn't make him less so.

And Charter was Hirds personal fitness advisor.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/clients-ranged-from-strippers-to-millionaires-to-james-hird-20130419-2i5m1.html

  On 28/10/2014 at 02:26, beelzebub said:

ASADA impose individual sanctions upon players as per result of SCN's. Penalty is delivered by the AFL after deliberation of AFL Anti Doping Tribunal. You can bet ASADA will be sitting at their shoulders during this. Gill theDill will need to tread very carefully here or he'll be made to look like a schmuck!!

However ASADA can also dish out its own justice to the club itself.. The AFL has already slapped the Hillers with its lettuce here

So if ASADA deem AFLs punishment insufficient they can over rule them with their own punishments, or add to them? I'm hoping the AFL do something like take away 1st and 2nd round draft picks for 5 years, and ban players for like 4 matches- then ASADA say no, 4 matches no good- you're out for 2 years, and here's a 5 million dollar fine to go on top.

5 million dollar fine, ban of players for 2 years, exclusion of 1&2 round draft picks for 5 years.... Bye bye Essendrugs

  On 28/10/2014 at 02:34, sweet dee said:

So if ASADA deem AFLs punishment insufficient they can over rule them with their own punishments, or add to them? I'm hoping the AFL do something like take away 1st and 2nd round draft picks for 5 years, and ban players for like 4 matches- then ASADA say no, 4 matches no good- you're out for 2 years, and here's a 5 million dollar fine to go on top.

5 million dollar fine, ban of players for 2 years, exclusion of 1&2 round draft picks for 5 years.... Bye bye Essendrugs

If ASADA ( WADA) deem the penalty insufficient it can/will appeal to CAS, The Court of Abitration for Sport.

Though its the AFL Ati Doping Tribunal that deliberates as to the outcome , it's my understanding it does so within the guidelines as set out by ASADA. The AFL cant go off on its own little adventure here ( no matter how much it might like to ). So if ASADA feel they spirit of ajudication has not been met....its off to the CAS.

telling quote

  Quote

Charter has worked with Olympic swimmers, jockeys, horses, boxers and NRL and AFL footballers. His programs have varied from simple dietary and supplement advice to ''cutting edge'' programs. Quickly it becomes clear that cutting edge means cutting corners.

''Some wanted to reach their potential naturally, some were happy to go close to the line, others had the 'whatever it takes' attitude','' Charter says.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dr-ageless-and-the-winning-formula-20130419-2i69n.html

  On 28/10/2014 at 02:48, daisycutter said:

telling quote

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/dr-ageless-and-the-winning-formula-20130419-2i69n.html

Interesting use of the phrase "Whatever it takes". I seem to remember it being a marketing mantra of a team in 2013.

I don't remember which one though.

  On 28/10/2014 at 02:40, beelzebub said:

If ASADA ( WADA) deem the penalty insufficient it can/will appeal to CAS, The Court of Abitration for Sport.

Though its the AFL Ati Doping Tribunal that deliberates as to the outcome , it's my understanding it does so within the guidelines as set out by ASADA. The AFL cant go off on its own little adventure here ( no matter how much it might like to ). So if ASADA feel they spirit of ajudication has not been met....its off to the CAS.

The AFL Anti-doping code can be found here:

http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/AFL/Files/Schedule%206%20-%20National%20Anti-Doping%20Code.pdf

Section 14 deals with Sanctions

This Charter guy is a class act. Its surely is a case of whatever it takes.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/key-witness-in-essendon-case-shane-charter-on-drug-charges-20141027-11cs1r.html

  On 28/10/2014 at 00:38, beelzebub said:

ahhh here lays the interest for moi.

The AFL are really Amateurs here. They have been trying to play both ends against the middle in the hope that the impact to the league/fixture/bottom line is mitigated. They think they are the big boys in town but are about to be shown a lesson.

AFL have been focusing on the players...WADA still has ability to king hit a TEAM. Albeit it is a bit of brave new world here as to how you punish a team in this context but its something no one seems to be talking about and I find that odd.

11.2 Consequences for Team Sports

If more than two members of a team in a Team Sport

are found to have committed an anti-doping rule

violation during an Event Period, the ruling body of the

Event shall impose an appropriate sanction on the

team (e.g., loss of points, Disqualification from a

Competition or Event, or other sanction) in addition to

any Consequences imposed upon the individual

Athletes committing the anti-doping rule violation.

11.3 Event Ruling Body May Establish

Stricter Consequences for Team Sports

The ruling body for an Event may elect to establish

rules for the Event which impose Consequences for

Team Sports stricter than those in Article 11.2 for

purposes of the Event.

If the CLUB is allowed to field a team in some shape and form I have an inkling those banned will be out for the year...or better part of.

I couldn't see a situation where WADA calls on the ruling body to ban the entire team from competing as it hurts every other team in the competition. This will go against WADAs charter. Instead I think it will be loss of points.

  On 28/10/2014 at 02:52, M_9 said:

The AFL Anti-doping code can be found here:

http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/AFL/Files/Schedule%206%20-%20National%20Anti-Doping%20Code.pdf

Section 14 deals with Sanctions

Cheers...its essentially a version of the template of the WADA code ...in AFL-ese !!