Your analogies are misplaced and you have mis represented my point or view.The issue of the supplements being given would appear to have administered at a multitude of locations not just in the workplace. There is significant overlap in the interests of ASADA and Workcover which may have been jeopardised had both gone concurrently to do there own investigations. Workcover may well rely on ASADA outcomes but would be free to further investigate. When the issue is the investigation is the existing of sports doping program associated with the ACCs investigation into the importation and distribution of illegal substances then ASADA is the best party to represent WADAs interest and investigate this.

Disagree. But then it is an opinion forum.

It's a house of cards... and I believe it will come tumbling down in about one and a half months time.

...probably just after ANZAC day match! AFL would plead/negotiate to hold off till then and given ANZAC day standing would (appropriately) get a sympathetic hearing.

Edited March 5, 201411 yr by Lucifer's Hero

...probably just after ANZAC day match! AFL would plead/negotiate to hold off till then and given ANZAC day standing would (appropriately) get a sympathetic hearing.

Do they still deserve to be in the ANZAC day match??? Is this a club that embodies the ANZAC spirit of honesty bravery and self sacrifice?? Did the diggers do 'What ever it takes" or did they operate within moral boundaries and a sense of honour?

Take ANZAC day off this club, the have brought the game int direpute and dont deserve it.

dc I am not trying to defend the EFC in any way.

What I am saying just because it would be the correct thing to record information to determine if and what got results does not mean it happened.

I get the feeling that this was not done correctly from the start. IMO they were reckless, incompetent, cavalier and endangered the health of their players.

Until proven otherwise I don't believe they destroyed records because I don't believe any of substance existed in the first place.

It is not a case IMO of me believing whatever I want I just see no evidence or comment at this stage that they destroyed records.

Lets hope we find out close to the truth in the next few months.

It beggars belief that any organisation would plan to implement a program that includes administering 11,000 injections of various chemicals and have no records whatsoever of who got what and when.

In all seriousness I do not think that you believe this either.

For you to accept this you would need to accept that The accounts department at EFC are incompetent. The coaching department are incompetent, The welfare officers, players, medical staff etc. all incompetent.That no body in the organisation thought it unusual to be buying chemicals , paying to have them administered complete with signed waivers by players regarding the administration of chemicals, none of this unusual.

That no program existed to record or manage in any way the administration of chemicals to cherished players, the very same players that they monitor everything they eat or drink, the amount of sleep they get and try to maintain their health to the highest levels in society.This is what you expect us to believe?

No, you expect us to believe that they decided to bring in some quack outsider and let him do whatever he likes without records without supervision and bench marking, no control. She'll be right mate no we don't need any information no comparisons before and after no recording of possible side effects, no mate don't worry about they are just guinea pigs after all give em another jab or two, oh whats that in that vial give them some of that too she'll be right mate!..

Imagine a professional club embarking on a training regime, they do not record who trains and when, how far or fast they run. And this totally adhoc system does not attract the attention of anyone within the club. That no one at the club asked any questions.This is what you expect us to believe happened at EFC?

IMO they had records, they have vanished. What do we think happened to them?

2+2=4 I have no evidence to support my answer but I know it is true.

It beggars belief that any organisation would plan to implement a program that includes administering 11,000 injections of various chemicals and have no records whatsoever of who got what and when.

In all seriousness I do not think that you believe this either.

For you to accept this you would need to accept that The accounts department at EFC are incompetent. The coaching department are incompetent, The welfare officers, players, medical staff etc. all incompetent.That no body in the organisation thought it unusual to be buying chemicals , paying to have them administered complete with signed waivers by players regarding the administration of chemicals, none of this unusual.

That no program existed to record or manage in any way the administration of chemicals to cherished players, the very same players that they monitor everything they eat or drink, the amount of sleep they get and try to maintain their health to the highest levels in society.This is what you expect us to believe?

No, you expect us to believe that they decided to bring in some quack outsider and let him do whatever he likes without records without supervision and bench marking, no control. She'll be right mate no we don't need any information no comparisons before and after no recording of possible side effects, no mate don't worry about they are just guinea pigs after all give em another jab or two, oh whats that in that vial give them some of that too she'll be right mate!..

Imagine a professional club embarking on a training regime, they do not record who trains and when, how far or fast they run. And this totally adhoc system does not attract the attention of anyone within the club. That no one at the club asked any questions.This is what you expect us to believe happened at EFC?

IMO they had records, they have vanished. What do we think happened to them?

2+2=4 I have no evidence to support my answer but I know it is true.

Don't forget Player Managers would have to be incompetent (not saying they are not....) to have been made aware of the injection from there players and not batted an eye lid either.

Of course there WERE Records...It was a Supplement PROGRAM.....Start the players at Point A Mr. Dank and take them to Point B..

Ramp it up slowly....

Records still esxist somewhere...But they maybe in the "Too Hard Basket"

"Get Me the Good Stuff...We are playing Carlton this Week"...How would Hird not know what the "Good Stuff actually was unless there were Records kept????

Edited March 6, 201411 yr by why you little

well if their objective was plausible deniability then that in itself should be damning, indicating a reckless concern for the players and an acknowledgement that the program was not above board

can't have it both ways

100% agree, DC. There are mysterious aspects to this, but the blame is clear.

Of course there WERE Records...It was a Supplement PROGRAM.....Start the players at Point A Mr. Dank and take them to Point B..

Ramp it up slowly....

Records still esxist somewhere...But they maybe in the "Too Hard Basket"

"Get Me the Good Stuff...We are playing Carlton this Week"...How would Hird not know what the "Good Stuff actually was unless there were Records kept????

Full and accurate record keeping is the underpinning of any business.

Blind Freddie could see that the EFC have disposed of incriminating evidence. Sorry to Freddie for using his name in the same sentence as the cheats at EFC.

So EFC, was everyone at the EFC so incompetent that they should all be sacked or have they disposed of the evidence? They are the options.. Mmmmm you know what I think.

Whatever it takes. Cheat, lie, put at risk, drug use, failure of duty of care, incompetence, blame shift. Whatever it takes.EFC

Oh i am sure that as it was such a "Cutting Edge" Program that Hird or Dank would have employed a Gun I.T. operator to take care of all the records.

There is no incompetence here or oversights.

James knew exactly what was going on. The plan was to continue it all till last Christmas.

They kept F/:;$&@ing records alright. It is just now they have been "deleted" at least at the top level.

I am sure encrypted copies are stored somewhere.

Oh i am sure that as it was such a "Cutting Edge" Program that Hird or Dank would have employed a Gun I.T. operator to take care of all the records.

There is no incompetence here or oversights.

James knew exactly what was going on. The plan was to continue it all till last Christmas.

They kept F/:;$&@ing records alright. It is just now they have been "deleted" at least at the top level.

I am sure encrypted copies are stored somewhere.

Dean wallis was the man incharge of keeping records . By chance Dank is speaking at a lunch organized by wallis for his local football team. Maybe a thank you for being such a brilliant spreadsheet keeper:)

Dean wallis was the man incharge of keeping records . By chance Dank is speaking at a lunch organized by wallis for his local football team. Maybe a thank you for being such a brilliant spreadsheet keeper:)

Yes ironic timing isn't it.

"Dean have you got those USB's??"

"Locker in Switzerland??...Right Thanks. Good Boy"....

What a TV Series this is going to be. Stuff Fat Tony

Edited March 6, 201411 yr by why you little

We may well have the Tassie Bombers as my informant suggested. I think the EFC may be in for a spell very soon.

Dean wallis was the man incharge of keeping records . By chance Dank is speaking at a lunch organized by wallis for his local football team. Maybe a thank you for being such a brilliant spreadsheet keeper:)

hahahahaha.dean wallis.

the last time i saw dean he was in the middle of latrobe terrace[geelong] being urinated on by barnsey and a couple of other cats players.

it was four in the morning after the 95 gf loss.

all class and a model citizen is deano.

hahahahaha.dean wallis.

the last time i saw dean he was in the middle of latrobe terrace[geelong] being urinated on by barnsey and a couple of other cats players.

it was four in the morning after the 95 gf loss.

all class and a model citizen is deano.

Jesus H. God Dancing Christ i didn't expect to read that!!!

Hahahaha.....(continued)...

Jesus H. God Dancing Christ i didn't expect to read that!!!

Hahahaha.....(continued)...

H is for Hogan? Not familiar with the God Dancing Christs are they from Elwood?

Edited March 6, 201411 yr by ManDee

As I recall, some of the EFC players were used as testing subjects for some sort of study and weren't told.

Whoever was running that study surely has records of what those subjects were given, dosages, timeline etc.

I'll try to dig up a link.

Edit: here we go:

http://www.smh.com.au/afl/afl-news/bombers-players-were-treated-like-guinea-pigs-20130629-2p3x2.html

Says that results were possibly passed on to external parties. If a third party was conducting a clinical trial, they MUST have data on it.

Also says the EFC deny these claims, so it could all be hot air.

Further clarification:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/essendon-players-not-part-of-clinical-trial-pharmaceutical-company/story-fnca0u4y-1226687451443

Looks like what I remembered were actually just 'notes' from Dank given to a clinical trial, not actually the trial itself.

Still, it means Dank has some data...

Edited March 6, 201411 yr by Choke

H is for Hogan? Not familiar with the God Dancing Christs are they from Elwood?

The Blues Brothers actually.

But then there is an Elwood connection.

The Blues Brothers actually.

But then there is an Elwood connection.

Nice.

It beggars belief that any organisation would plan to implement a program that includes administering 11,000 injections of various chemicals and have no records whatsoever of who got what and when.

In all seriousness I do not think that you believe this either.

For you to accept this you would need to accept that The accounts department at EFC are incompetent. The coaching department are incompetent, The welfare officers, players, medical staff etc. all incompetent.That no body in the organisation thought it unusual to be buying chemicals , paying to have them administered complete with signed waivers by players regarding the administration of chemicals, none of this unusual.

That no program existed to record or manage in any way the administration of chemicals to cherished players, the very same players that they monitor everything they eat or drink, the amount of sleep they get and try to maintain their health to the highest levels in society.This is what you expect us to believe?

No, you expect us to believe that they decided to bring in some quack outsider and let him do whatever he likes without records without supervision and bench marking, no control. She'll be right mate no we don't need any information no comparisons before and after no recording of possible side effects, no mate don't worry about they are just guinea pigs after all give em another jab or two, oh whats that in that vial give them some of that too she'll be right mate!..

Imagine a professional club embarking on a training regime, they do not record who trains and when, how far or fast they run. And this totally adhoc system does not attract the attention of anyone within the club. That no one at the club asked any questions.This is what you expect us to believe happened at EFC?

IMO they had records, they have vanished. What do we think happened to them?

2+2=4 I have no evidence to support my answer but I know it is true.

Mandee I think those three letters cover it.

We all have our opinion and none of us are liable to change that opinion shy of some finality in a report from ASADA.

Clearly I don't agree with you but it is pointless us arguing back and forth at this point.

I will now wait for the out come.

I hope we get one before the end of 2014.

Mandee I think those three letters cover it.

We all have our opinion and none of us are liable to change that opinion shy of some finality in a report from ASADA.

Clearly I don't agree with you but it is pointless us arguing back and forth at this point.

I will now wait for the out come.

I hope we get one before the end of 2014.

So how would Essendrug be able to gauge improvements in a supplement program without updated records OD?

Mandee I think those three letters cover it.

We all have our opinion and none of us are liable to change that opinion shy of some finality in a report from ASADA.

Clearly I don't agree with you but it is pointless us arguing back and forth at this point.

I will now wait for the out come.

I hope we get one before the end of 2014.

Have enjoyed the discussion. I agree to disagree.

I hope we get more than one, win that is. IMO 8-10. but that is only my opinion.

So how would Essendrug be able to gauge improvements in a supplement program without updated records OD?

Ouija board I would presume. Obviously they keep no records.

I will respect you in the morning. The cheques in the mail. We kept no records. The three great lies. I forgot, The dog ate my homework. 2+2=Four

Have enjoyed the discussion. I agree to disagree.

I hope we get more than one, win that is. IMO 8-10. but that is only my opinion.

I meant a result from the Essendon fiasco ManDee.

So how would Essendrug be able to gauge improvements in a supplement program without updated records OD?

Do you still beat your wife?

Not falling for that one wyl.

As I said I think there is zero to be gained by continuing a never ending discussion.

Hopefully a result will be known before too many more months go past.

I meant a result from the Essendon fiasco ManDee.

I know, trying to inject some humour. But I keep no records of my injections.

I can't help it I'm like a dog with a bone, I think you may be similar in that respect.