The ASADA saga is entering Bizarroworld as Hird continues his hopeless battle alone in the Federal Court and the players are seeking closure ~ ASADA to reissue new show cause notices to 34 current and former Essendon players this week

It may well be the case that the lawyers will push the significant no fault provisions but it's a risky proposition at best because there are strong arguments to suggest that the players were partly at fault in accepting a drugs regime involving thousands of injections when signing onto it (remember the "waiver" notices).

Moreover, the players will surely also miss out on any discounts for co-operation if they argue in the tribunal they are not guilty, lose and then try to cut a deal.

Their best chance is to cut the deal ASAP if one is still on the table or available, hope that it's fairly lenient and that WADA also looks away as it did with the NRL (and the differences have already been pointed out).

The other hope is for some form of political intervention which is always a possibility but unlikely even with scenes like this from earlier in the season.

I was under the impression that, although the players signed off on the waivers, there wasn't necessarily waivers for all the drugs administered. And certainly there was at least one drug, AOD-9604, that was not signed off by Reid, the club doctor.

It's hard to know exactly where speculation ends and the facts begin in all of this. But you would think that with Essendon's failings in regard the management of the drugs the players have a very good case for the "no fault" provision.

The players will not be receiving infraction notices over AOD9604. They will be getting notices alleging that they used an S2 drug TB4, a form of thymosin referred to on the waiver notices.

I think we must have covered the issue of no fault at least half a dozen times on this thread in some detail. My view is that "no fault" should not apply. Along with most high level athletes, AFL players receive extensive educatation about what to look for and have it drummed into their brains that they are responsible for everything that goes into their bodies. Compare this with the case of former Casey Scorpions player Wade Lees who was suspended for 18 months for importing a banned supplement which he never received. He had no education about what he ordered and, at the very least, was no more at fault than the Essendon players. The same can be said of hundreds of oher athletes world wide who have in their ignorance ingested banned drugs worldwide and copped sever penalties.

I think I've got my terms mixed up. I meant to refer to the "no significant fault" provision (which is a reduction of ineligibility) as opposed to the "no fault" clause (which is an elimination of ineligibility).

Like I said, it's hard to know where speculation ends and the truth begins. I was just using AOD as an example, but if the players signed a waiver for Thymomodulin but were administered TB-4, surely that would be a good case for "no significant fault"

I think I've got my terms mixed up. I meant to refer to the "no significant fault" provision (which is a reduction of ineligibility) as opposed to the "no fault" clause (which is an elimination of ineligibility).

Like I said, it's hard to know where speculation ends and the truth begins. I was just using AOD as an example, but if the players signed a waiver for Thymomodulin but were administered TB-4, surely that would be a good case for "no significant fault"

No significant fault on the part of Wade Lees either or on the part of Belarusian shot putter Nadzeya Ostapchuk who (briefly) won gold at the 2012 Summer Olympics in London. She was later disqualified from the medal for testing positive for a banned substance and banned from competition for twelve months. Her coach Alexander Yefimov, admitted to spiking her coffee with metenolone without her knowledge after being worried about her performance, stating that he thought the drug would be clear before the tests were administered.

The wording "Thymosin" was used on the waiver form, not "Thymomodulin" which is gobbledegook introduced at a later time. There are two types of "Thymosin" which have been referred to by at least one player as "the good and the bad thymosin". ASADA believes the "bad thymosin" was ingested into the players and claims to have proof of this. Given that the players could have sought advice from others or by google search of the nature of these supplements, they are going to find it difficult to prove "no significant fault" in my view. However, they could gain sympathy from ASADA CEO Ben McDevitt who appears to be eager to wrap this all up and get convictions. On that basis, they should all be signing up for the cheap penalties likely to be on offer for an early plea and hope WADA doesn't object.

On that latter point, I believe McDevitt dropped the ball badly on AOD9604 and the football media (most of who put little effort into research of such matters and I specifically include Caro). AOD9604 in the form injected into the Essendon players is most certainly Schedule S0 and prohibited at all times for use. Whatever penalties are applied to the Bombers if found guilty, they probably should count themselves lucky.

No significant fault on the part of Wade Lees either or on the part of Belarusian shot putter Nadzeya Ostapchuk who (briefly) won gold at the 2012 Summer Olympics in London. She was later disqualified from the medal for testing positive for a banned substance and banned from competition for twelve months. Her coach Alexander Yefimov, admitted to spiking her coffee with metenolone without her knowledge after being worried about her performance, stating that he thought the drug would be clear before the tests were administered.

Wow, that seems brutal but explains why WADA where upset at the Cronulla sanctions. I guess if they've all been educated on this then ignorance is no excuse, but it seems totally at odds with the AFL. They are saying that every athlete should know what they are taking, fair enough. But AFL players are basically fully catered for while at the club, training and game day. Based on that, unless a player brings in his own food and drinks, they've opened themselves up to the potential coping a ban by being doped without their knowledge.

I would have in my innocence thought the time for an early plea was November 2012

Put up your hand if you have sympathy for a drug cheat in professional sport, and all the implications that go with it...

The problem with having too much sympathy for those who have banned drugs in their system is that they do so at the expense of those who don't take the drugs.

The problem with having too much sympathy for those who have banned drugs in their system is that they do so at the expense of those who don't take the drugs.

Yes - and one of the benefits included a Brownlow for their captain. Going to be interesting to see what happens there.

Surely at some point Worksafe must look at all this.

If one thing is clear - whatever drugs were administered to who - Essendon did not pay due attention to the health and welfare of its employees.

Worksafe exists to ensure that employers exercise due skill and care.in providing a safe work environment. In 2012 /13 the EFC did not.

Where are you, Worksafe?

Dons face China crisis as case against players set to be presented

Game set and match you would presume. Only question is how long the bans will be, and whether or not Hird falls on his sword as promised.

Dons face China crisis as case against players set to be presented

Game set and match you would presume. Only question is how long the bans will be, and whether or not Hird falls on his sword as promised.

Not just game, set and match Bing. This is the whole tournament.

It explains why Dank refused to be interviewed and why there has been so much resistance on the part of many to allowing the truth to come out in the normal way, without interference or meddling of the various parties.

This saga started because the ACC was investigating the importation of illegal substances into the country. The investigation followed the money trail as it usually does in these cases and found Dank and the Essendon Football Club.

The Bombers and Hird really are, as the title to this thread says, <redacted>.

I hope for their sake that the players take the best deal that's put on the table. I hope that Paddy Ryder gets cleared to the club of his choice today. I hope that the Essendon Board resigns en masse as soon as is practical. I hope that James Hird does the right thing and has nothing more to do with this sport. I hope that none of the players or their children suffer any after effects from the pharmacological regime they were subjected to. I hope Robbo apologises to the Essendon mother he accused of being a fiction. I hope the AFL's role in this story comes out as well and that it is not allowed the comfort of vindication.

I hope we can go back to following a sport instead of a forensic examination.

Wow. they are so boned.

They honestly need to be banned from the comp for at least 12 months - or at least play for 0 premiership points like the storm did.

Crime was a lot more effective in the days of brown paper bags and meetings in smoky pubs.

Crime was a lot more effective in the days of brown paper bags and meetings in smoky pubs.

But now we have email,mobile traces .

It just seems more acceptable now to follow the electronic clues.

In the old days we had some trenchcoat wearing chain smoking detective,And he come up with the evidence months after the story finished.

Old crime Vs New crime,the nation should vote.

Hope the Divvy vans are on their way to Windy Hill to initiate the incarceration of the dirtbags. Hird ought to be residing in [censored]

There will be no en mass resignation at Essendon, that would take morality and decency.

Hopefully Dank gets done also

If this happen what a joke.

The AFL endorse drug taking/cheaters

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/essendon-reserves-could-line-up-in-round-1-if-asada-issues-34-bombers-doping-bans/story-fnp04d70-1227085724242

Hope the Divvy vans are on their way to Windy Hill to initiate the incarceration of the dirtbags. Hird ought to be residing in Bluestone .

There will be no en mass resignation at essendon, that would take morality and decency..

Hopefully Dank gets done also

They can always get more money but I am afraid they will never have the latter.

Oh dear. They want to fight for their innocence, hmmm? Won't take a deal, they said. Yeah... might want to rethink that, idiots.

Strip Watson of his brownlow, ban Hird from all professional sport and cancel his passport so he can't flee to France. Them just desserts are here, and ASADA's holding the ice cream scoop.

Loved how Essendon has announced that Fletcher will be playing on in 2015.

He may be on the their list in 2015 but there NO guarantee he will be allowed to play an actual game.

Spot the FIG JAM

Loved how Essendon has announced that Fletcher will be playing on in 2015.

He may be on the their list in 2015 but there NO guarantee he will be allowed to play an actual game.

Oh I reckon he'll probably get there by the END of the season

Senior ESS players with several hard pre seasons under their belts must have been pleasantly surprised in 2012 when not only did they increase their mass but managed to keep it throughout the season (pic: round 14 2012). These players must have known something was "up" yet stayed with the program!

Cheats! No sympathy! Maximum penalty!

Best avatar ever, deefrag.

Edit: also just realised you name is a pun. Well played, sir.