Does the MFC deserve draft assistance?

[Chook 15,001]

Demetriou has confirmed that Melbourne can't ask for a PP until season's end, nor can the AFL examine it until that point, which makes alot more sense than a situation where it had already been asked for and we'd receive an answer in the next few weeks. Those who were adamant that was the case, that's incorrect.

I'd be interested if we win a few more games by season's end whether opinion on here would shift. I'm guessing not.

I think it's just policy. Asking for a priority pick during the season is like filling up your petrol tank while your car is in motion. It's theoretically possible, but it's probably better to wait until the vehicle has come to a complete stop before giving it a shot.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I think it's just policy. Asking for a priority pick during the season is like filling up your petrol tank while your car is in motion. It's theoretically possible, but it's probably better to wait until the vehicle has come to a complete stop before giving it a shot.

If we don't win another game will they accuse us of tanking again?

We should/could win a couple, GWS and Bulldogs so that gives us 4 wins and coupled with our previous year, we would have automatically got one under the old system, which was designed to help struggling clubs. Well, we are struggling and that's undeniable, we haven't tanked and that's also undeniable so if there had never been any tanking issues we would be given a leg up with a PP.

No one is suggesting that this is the way we want to go, but it seems to me that if we don't get an injection of talent we will probably win another 4 games next year and the next after that; we have a heap of ordinary players on the list and we need some talent; desperately.

Unfortunately we all seem to think that a new coach will turn sow's ears in to silk purses, well that's not going to happen, the players we have that we give votes to every week are the ones who are getting flogged on a weekly basis and that's because they are not real good.

We salivate over an ordinary player that can get 20 odd possessions in a game, but it's only because the rest struggle to get double figures.

[Pitchy 196]

Oh RobbieF sad, and partly true. We do have many players who wont ever be good enough. But we also have a nucleus that will be excellent with 7-8 really solid additions. Unfortunately the 6-8 needed are all midfielders and its hard to come up with gun mids out of nowhere. We do need a priority pick for that reason alone I think.

If priority picks still exist then I can't really imagine a situation where a club might need one more than us. It's been drubbing after drubbing this year. Bulldogs probably need one too. GWS are developing young guns and will be fine.

[Adam The God 29,691]

The Bulldogs should be awarded a PP at the end of the first round. If they're still down next year, then they should receive one at the start of the first round next year.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

The Bulldogs should be awarded a PP at the end of the first round. If they're still down next year, then they should receive one at the start of the first round next year.

The problem the Bulldogs have is their record over the last 5 years, includes 3 Final appearances whereas we've had none. I appreciate that their list is a bit off but they aren't like us who've had 7 years of failure.

The AFL won't start handing out PP's to clubs who fall off the pace for a couple of years plus they reckon they are on the verge of turning it around.

[Whispering_Jack 29,384]

The problem the Bulldogs have is their record over the last 5 years, includes 3 Final appearances whereas we've had none. I appreciate that their list is a bit off but they aren't like us who've had 7 years of failure.

The AFL won't start handing out PP's to clubs who fall off the pace for a couple of years plus they reckon they are on the verge of turning it around.

Plus the coach of the Bulldogs has indicated he doesn't believe in the PP so I take it that they won't be applying.

I have a feeling that we might snaffle a couple of wins before the year's out and possibly even finish ahead of St. Kilda which looks to have a tough run home (they might even be tanking for all I know).

This doesn't alter the situation one iota. Our record over the past 7 years has been abysmal and the AFL rule as to draft assistance is very clear. If it doesn't apply to us, they might as well scrap the rule.

[beelzebub 23,254]

I think it's just policy. Asking for a priority pick during the season is like filling up your petrol tank while your car is in motion. It's theoretically possible, but it's probably better to wait until the vehicle has come to a complete stop before giving it a shot.

AFL can say what it likes. but the fact is its been put out there. . What it really comes down to is that VLAD doesnt need to address it til seasons end.

its political. It gives everyone time to position and lobby etc

[rpfc 28,087]

The Bulldogs will get one soon, not this year however.

Their coach didn't say what the papers implied - he almost agrued for assiatance for his club aswell as us, not scrapping the practice altogether.

We are terrible and we need to get better quickly. We need some trade assets - we need draft picks.

[Redleg 40,453]

The problem the Bulldogs have is their record over the last 5 years, includes 3 Final appearances whereas we've had none. I appreciate that their list is a bit off but they aren't like us who've had 7 years of failure.

The AFL won't start handing out PP's to clubs who fall off the pace for a couple of years plus they reckon they are on the verge of turning it around.

They have also shot themselves in the foot saying we whouldn't get one, even though everyone knows we have a worse record.

[Adam The God 29,691]

The problem the Bulldogs have is their record over the last 5 years, includes 3 Final appearances whereas we've had none. I appreciate that their list is a bit off but they aren't like us who've had 7 years of failure.

The AFL won't start handing out PP's to clubs who fall off the pace for a couple of years plus they reckon they are on the verge of turning it around.

I agree that their record is no where near ours, Robbie. I was measuring their PP by the old standards which was two seasons in a row with less than 4 wins. Unless they get some KPP they're going to be rooted to the foot of the ladder for a while yet.

[P-man 13,366]

Plus the coach of the Bulldogs has indicated he doesn't believe in the PP so I take it that they won't be applying.

I have a feeling that we might snaffle a couple of wins before the year's out and possibly even finish ahead of St. Kilda which looks to have a tough run home (they might even be tanking for all I know).

This doesn't alter the situation one iota. Our record over the past 7 years has been abysmal and the AFL rule as to draft assistance is very clear. If it doesn't apply to us, they might as well scrap the rule.

Scrap it then.

I'm not buying for one minute that "it doesn't alter the situation one iota". If you don't give it any weight, fine, but you're essentially saying that the remainder of this season is irrelevant to the outcome. Why then wait until the end of the year? If there is so much weight given to the previous 7 years, why wait? Purely to keep up appearances? There is a logic to waiting until the end of the season.

We've already betean GWS and the Bulldogs. We beat both of them again, and for argument's sake, Gold Coast, you really think that would have NO bearing on the AFL's decision?

[rpfc 28,087]

Scrap it then.

I'm not buying for one minute that "it doesn't alter the situation one iota". If you don't give it any weight, fine, but you're essentially saying that the remainder of this season is irrelevant to the outcome. Why then wait until the end of the year? If there is so much weight given to the previous 7 years, why wait? Purely to keep up appearances? There is a logic to waiting until the end of the season.

We've already betean GWS and the Bulldogs. We beat both of them again, and for argument's sake, Gold Coast, you really think that would have NO bearing on the AFL's decision?

I think you are readin WJ far too literally.

The scales will move slighly if we win 3 or 4 games out of 7 from here.

But they are so heavily weighted with the nonsense of the last 7 years it that it would still be a huge imbalance.

We have no midfield and no tangible assets to move to acquire midfielders. We need draft assistance.

[Nascent 8,821]

We have won 34 out of a possible 147 games in the past 7 years.

If we jag a few wins in the run home, I don't think a record of say 38 out of 154 is going to change the AFLs thinking too much.

If they decide that we warrant draft assistance, so be it. If not, they may as well scrap it altogether as no other team would qualify... that is unless GWS continue like they are for another 5 years.

[Redleg 40,453]

We have won 34 out of a possible 147 games in the past 7 years.

If we jag a few wins in the run home, I don't think a record of say 38 out of 154 is going to change the AFLs thinking too much.

If they decide that we warrant draft assistance, so be it. If not, they may as well scrap it altogether as no other team would qualify... that is unless GWS continue like they are for another 5 years.

Do you know what the win stats are for the other clubs over the same period. I would be interested to know.

[old dee 23,565]

Do you know what the win stats are for the other clubs over the same period. I would be interested to know.

I would like to know the average losing margin in the 113 games we have lost.

I suspect that will tell us more than how many games we have won.

[dees64 104]

Geelong highest draft pick in over 10yrs is pick 7.....

How many early picks in the Swans.....look at 2012 premiership team

I rest my case.....

Get the culture,drafting & development right........The mfc have done a terrible job here for many yrs & only twice since 64 with Northey & Daniher have they come close

Sure the Cats have a number of father sons......but they need the correct environment to develop!

Why can the Swans get recycled players & turn their careers around??

[Trisul 664]

Do you know what the win stats are for the other clubs over the same period. I would be interested to know.

Let's just say that the Bulldogs won 17 in 2010.

[Nascent 8,821]

Do you know what the win stats are for the other clubs over the same period. I would be interested to know.

Here's the win stats for every team over the past 7 years. I haven't included finals or mentioned draws.

Geelong: 123/147

Collingwood: 103/147

Hawthorn: 99/147

St Kilda: 86/147

Sydney: 84/147

Adelaide: 77/147

North Melbourne: 74/147

Bulldogs: 71/147

Carlton: 70/147

West Coast: 70/147

Essendon: 69/147

Freemantle: 69/147

Brisbane: 58/147

Port Adelaide: 57/147

Richmond: 53/147

Melbourne: 34/147

GC: 11/59

GWS: 2/37

I've highlighted the Bulldogs record as they seem to be generating a bit of discussion over their eligibility for a potential priority pick.

Edited July 17, 2013 by Nascent

[Redleg 40,453]

Let's just say that the Bulldogs won 17 in 2010.

So in one year they won half the games we won in 7.

[Redleg 40,453]

Here's the win stats for every team over the past 7 years. I haven't included finals or mentioned draws.

Geelong: 123/147

Collingwood: 103/147

Hawthorn: 99/147

St Kilda: 86/147

Sydney: 84/147

Adelaide: 77/147

North Melbourne: 74/147

Bulldogs: 71/147

Carlton: 70/147

West Coast: 70/147

Essendon: 69/147

Freemantle: 69/147

Brisbane: 58/147

Port Adelaide: 57/147

Richmond: 53/147

Melbourne: 34/147

GC: 11/59

GWS: 2/37

I've highlighted the Bulldogs record as they seem to be generating a bit of discussion over their eligibility to a potential priority pick.

Thanks for that.

So leaving aside the newbies, we are 20 games behind the next lowest and both of them are in the eight at the moment.

The Dogs are more than double our wins and have played finals recently.

Those stats speak for themselves, as to our overwhelming need for player assistance.

That need can't be matched by any other team. We are in a very strong position top get help.

As I have said previously, if we don't no one will.

[old dee 23,565]

Geelong highest draft pick in over 10yrs is pick 7.....

How many early picks in the Swans.....look at 2012 premiership team

I rest my case.....

Get the culture,drafting & development right........The mfc have done a terrible job here for many yrs & only twice since 64 with Northey & Daniher have they come close

Sure the Cats have a number of father sons......but they need the correct environment to develop!

Why can the Swans get recycled players & turn their careers around??

Because they don't pick hacks in the first place.

eg. Byrnes was clearly past it at Geelong.

After a career at Richmond and Port Roden had one year left at best.

Gillies never showed anything in his years at Geelong.

And Pedersens high light reel was all one game at north.

[P-man 13,366]

I think you are readin WJ far too literally.

The scales will move slighly if we win 3 or 4 games out of 7 from here.

But they are so heavily weighted with the nonsense of the last 7 years it that it would still be a huge imbalance.

We have no midfield and no tangible assets to move to acquire midfielders. We need draft assistance.

"Not one iota of difference" - why would I not take that literally?

I think 3 or 4 more wins would be of greater significance than you or WJ seem to believe. Resting practically the entire case on the past with almost total disregard to the state of the team NOW is nonsensical. Competitiveness moving forward must be given heavy consideration, surely, and that is measured by how the team is competing now.

I got the "we need draft assistance" part the first 6 times. I actually think it's more a case of "I'd like draft assistance", but we can differ on that.

Fundamentally, in my view, this is about principle. We're all sick of following a weak as [censored] club and want to see it improve. Some see this as a means to remedying that, so why not go for it? I see it as perpetuating that weakness, looking for another easy out at the hands of someone else. We're being given what is reportedly an extremely generous assistance package, with an injection of millions after being fined 500K by the very same body looking to bail us out of the mess we created. To put out the hand AGAIN for some extra draft picks...are we still a football club or will the C now stand for Charity? And to be honest, whilst from memory you sit in the "we didn't tank" side of the debate, I think most acknowledge that we did, and there is something very on the nose about a club that acquires a priority pick through questionable means, then turns around a few years later to ask for another. And I'm not talking bout how others perceive that. I'm talking about how I perceive that, as a supporter.

The state of the team? As poor as we were, two thirds of the teams would've been belted by a flying Geelong at home in the wet, so I'm not paying too much attention to that game. Previous weeks have shown a side with a great deal of improvement within it. Enough to see that there is a strong likelihood draft assistance is not as necessary as you keep stating.

I will however continue to watch, and give due consideration to, the rest of the season.

[rpfc 28,087]

"Not one iota of difference" - why would I not take that literally?

I think 3 or 4 more wins would be of greater significance than you or WJ seem to believe. Resting practically the entire case on the past with almost total disregard to the state of the team NOW is nonsensical. Competitiveness moving forward must be given heavy consideration, surely, and that is measured by how the team is competing now.

I got the "we need draft assistance" part the first 6 times. I actually think it's more a case of "I'd like draft assistance", but we can differ on that.

Fundamentally, in my view, this is about principle. We're all sick of following a weak as [censored] club and want to see it improve. Some see this as a means to remedying that, so why not go for it? I see it as perpetuating that weakness, looking for another easy out at the hands of someone else. We're being given what is reportedly an extremely generous assistance package, with an injection of millions after being fined 500K by the very same body looking to bail us out of the mess we created. To put out the hand AGAIN for some extra draft picks...are we still a football club or will the C now stand for Charity? And to be honest, whilst from memory you sit in the "we didn't tank" side of the debate, I think most acknowledge that we did, and there is something very on the nose about a club that acquires a priority pick through questionable means, then turns around a few years later to ask for another. And I'm not talking bout how others perceive that. I'm talking about how I perceive that, as a supporter.

The state of the team? As poor as we were, two thirds of the teams would've been belted by a flying Geelong at home in the wet, so I'm not paying too much attention to that game. Previous weeks have shown a side with a great deal of improvement within it. Enough to see that there is a strong likelihood draft assistance is not as necessary as you keep stating.

I will however continue to watch, and give due consideration to, the rest of the season.

Why do you constantly bring this back to our pathetic culture?

Whatever you call what happened in 2009 wasn't the cause of our problems - it may have been a symptom - but it is not as simple as saying: our culture would be better off without PPs or draft assistance or handouts.

And some bring up Sydney and Geelong and their refusal to 'bottom out' and get 'handouts.'

What do you call the extra $1m that Sydney get?

What does the 8 games a year at the unique regional ground get Geelong? (Around $6m in gate receipts)

I don't see them hedging on the appropriateness of what they have. They fight to keep what they have, demand that the AFL bow, and show nothing but smug satisfaction when others marvel at what they have achieved.

I want that attitude at the Demons. And Jackson agrees with me, he has already called this team a hindrance on the league. And we are.

And when teams become a hindrance, it gets corrected.

And it gets corrected through the draft.

[beelzebub 23,254]

As it all comes back to an arbitrary AFL decision it really has not a lot to do with deserts as what's acceptable or needed.

Argue til the cows come home about win& or years without this, or that. Matters not. If the comp needs leveling it will be leveled ( for the greater good!! ) Priority...now lets soak that word in, PRIORITY.... i.e what needs to be done before all else, Piority Picks will happen if Vlad wants it.

But no announcements before the seasons end, thats the way it rolls.

[P-man 13,366]

Why do you constantly bring this back to our pathetic culture?

Whatever you call what happened in 2009 wasn't the cause of our problems - it may have been a symptom - but it is not as simple as saying: our culture would be better off without PPs or draft assistance or handouts.

And some bring up Sydney and Geelong and their refusal to 'bottom out' and get 'handouts.'

What do you call the extra $1m that Sydney get?

What does the 8 games a year at the unique regional ground get Geelong? (Around $6m in gate receipts)

I don't see them hedging on the appropriateness of what they have. They fight to keep what they have, demand that the AFL bow, and show nothing but smug satisfaction when others marvel at what they have achieved.

I want that attitude at the Demons. And Jackson agrees with me, he has already called this team a hindrance on the league. And we are.

And when teams become a hindrance, it gets corrected.

And it gets corrected through the draft.

There is also the truckload of cash dumped in front of us which, whilst "conditional", will go a long way towards correcting the hinderance we have become.

I'm not about to defend the COLA afforded to Sydney because I don't agree with that either, and I've already acknowledged the advantage Geelong has with its home ground, but what of the other Victorian clubs who aren't afforded any legs up?

We're never going to agree on this because we view it totally differently. I simply fail to see what is so offensive about rolling up your sleeves.

I also trust you won't be bemoaning the expansion clubs after this. With the amount of assistance you are advocating, we won't exactly be worlds apart.

This topic is like a vortex and I'll be relieved to see the back of it and have this matter settled. It angers me to reflect on the actions of this club in recent times, not to mention the roar of support for PPs. I'm done.