I dont want him to go but you have to give something other clubs really like. He is over the odds for a good trade, but then, i thought that about Brock!

  On 04/07/2013 at 06:08, Nascent said:

I seem to recall Howe was praised by many on here early on in his career (lol, what was that like a season and a half ago?) for his defensive efforts. I haven't had the chance to attend recent games because of work, but has he perhaps been given more of a licence to be an attacking player since the departure of Neeld?

I wouldn't be so flippant about moving Howe on as he is quite clearly in our most talented handful of players. We should be adding to the talent we have, not trading one out and one in. It's also interesting to note that his 3 best games were also in some of our heaviest defeats against Essendon, Gold Coast and Fremantle. Not sure if that means a whole lot. No doubt he needs to work on consistency and bridge the gap between his best and worst. He is a must keep for mine.

Postscript, he is also leading our goal kicker this year at 20, with our next closet on 11. Not bad for a high half forward who has spent most of his time up the ground this season. While he is not your typical crumbing forward, he is still quite adept when the ball is on the ground.

What's flippant? We have 5 marking forwards next year. Five. We need mids. Howe is not a mid; what he does can be done by others; he cannot do what we need him to do up the ground.

His defensive efforts on saturday night were poor IMO. Loose doggies players had to be pointed out to him several times - he just sorta stood around looking vague and frankly unaware of what was required and the state of the game. When Clisby is telling him where to run then that says that his head goes a wandering.

He might well be leading our goalkicking but who else has played forward? Clark has been out; Dawes out; hogan prevented; fitzpatrick earning it and Watts playing back mostly. He's had more opportunity than most - good that he has made something of it.

He has worth - we might as well use it when we can. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to trade him. I just think he is an option that other teams would go for and it would be a win win. Best type of deal.

I'm all for acquiring midfielders. But IMO, Howe is currently a top 10 talent at the club and we should be holding onto as much talent as possible. I've seen him do some great things shifting back to defence and take some good intercept overhead marks back there, much like Watts did in the final quarter of the Bullies game. I think he has more versatility than you're giving him credit for and are perhaps judging him too harshly on one game.

For me, we either trade for fringe 22 players that we believe can be solid best 22 contributors, lure a midfielder into the PSD or develop our own through another couple high end acquisitions at the draft.

  On 04/07/2013 at 04:42, Franky_31 said:

Howe is pumped up by media and supporters and his lack of defense has been ignored. I wonder if he is a bad example to other young players. I love his speccies but he is a one trick pony for some-one who is supposed to be very fit.

Agree. Doesn't work hard enough and lacks discipline - see his numerous attempted hangers inside defensive 50.

I hate the idea of trading Howe. Trades that involve players that are firmly entrenched in the 22 and the club as a whole just make me feel very uncomfortable. I fully understand the logic, but gut feel says no for me.

trading howe should not be considered unless the offer is crazy good

  On 04/07/2013 at 07:58, Nasher said:

I hate the idea of trading Howe. Trades that involve players that are firmly entrenched in the 22 and the club as a whole just make me feel very uncomfortable. I fully understand the logic, but gut feel says no for me.

Yeah, we'd have to be very careful about this.

  On 04/07/2013 at 07:58, Nasher said:

I hate the idea of trading Howe. Trades that involve players that are firmly entrenched in the 22 and the club as a whole just make me feel very uncomfortable. I fully understand the logic, but gut feel says no for me.

And at a time when we're trying to get more people to the 'G' taking away one of our most exciting players could make us even more passé than before. I acknowledge that winning games with an improved midfield will drag supporters back but Howe is still young and has a lot to learn. I really rate Taylor Adams and hope we make a real play for him but Howe's flexibility will be important down the track and c'mon who doesn't love going to the footy knowing that Howe more than likely is going to stand on someone's head and claim the mark of the round?

GWS screwed us with Scully let's offer Adams way more than he is worth and grab him in the Pre-season Draft. Adams, Pick 2 mid and a B+/A- grade free agent midfielder would be a dream result.

adams, matty stokes and daniel cross plus some good mids like sheed or aish from the draft sounds great to me

I agree with timD - Howe is not worth what we think he is worth.

I need him to become Ryan O'Keefe. Another Russell Robertson is unnecessary in Hogan's Forwardline.

With that said - we cannot trade away one of the few things that bring people to the footy until we have a few other things that get them to the G.

Such as the aforementioned Hogan dominating and the team winning.

Forget Adams ... GWS or bound to return home to Geelong

Horsley - no

Liam Anthony - 26yo. ready to go. .. Yes as a PSD#2 option only. Not a trade pick. He GETS the footy and often. Too good for VFL (regularly stars as 30 possessions and influential).

Other options:

Jarryd Lyons (Crows)- 20yo. Ruckrover. From Sandringham. Squeezed out by Crows mids, Thompson, Sloane, Dangerfield, Vince.etc. Psd #2

Mav Weller - 21 yo- young talented rover. Squeezed out by Ablett, OMeara, Bennell, Prestia etc Psd#2

Howe has huge upside and would excel in a "Hogan" fwd line.

He MUST be a keeper.

Plus he is exciting. he keeps the kids supporting the Dees

  On 04/07/2013 at 11:59, rpfc said:

I agree with timD - Howe is not worth what we think he is worth.

I need him to become Ryan O'Keefe. Another Russell Robertson is unnecessary in Hogan's Forwardline.

With that said - we cannot trade away one of the few things that bring people to the footy until we have a few other things that get them to the G.

Such as the aforementioned Hogan dominating and the team winning.

  On 04/07/2013 at 06:32, timD said:

What's flippant? We have 5 marking forwards next year. Five. We need mids. Howe is not a mid; what he does can be done by others; he cannot do what we need him to do up the ground.

His defensive efforts on saturday night were poor IMO. Loose doggies players had to be pointed out to him several times - he just sorta stood around looking vague and frankly unaware of what was required and the state of the game. When Clisby is telling him where to run then that says that his head goes a wandering.

He might well be leading our goalkicking but who else has played forward? Clark has been out; Dawes out; hogan prevented; fitzpatrick earning it and Watts playing back mostly. He's had more opportunity than most - good that he has made something of it.

He has worth - we might as well use it when we can. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to trade him. I just think he is an option that other teams would go for and it would be a win win. Best type of deal.

It's a little bit ignorant to suggest that the skills Howe brings to the table can be easily replaced, when Howe is often amongst the best players in contested marks and has been nominated for mark of the year more than any player I can think of in his short career, care to list any?

Melbourne requires mid and small forwards, sure we have a few key forwards now but we require the mids and smalls. We don't trade Jeremy.

anthony miles anyone? highly rated junior, from north east vic, know him well and he is a great kid and cant get a run for gws

I was staggered to log on and see talk of trading Howe, as Hogan is this year for Casey, Howe is for Melbourne, an excitement machine to compensate for attending and watch defeats. Not since Robbo left have we had anyone near exciting unless you count the now-departed Jurrah and Aussie. Keep at all costs I say as the five marking forwards that everybody speaks of are prone to injury. We need him!

  On 04/07/2013 at 12:01, spirit of norm smith said:

Forget Adams ... GWS or bound to return home to Geelong

Horsley - no

Liam Anthony - 26yo. ready to go. .. Yes as a PSD#2 option only. Not a trade pick. He GETS the footy and often. Too good for VFL (regularly stars as 30 possessions and influential).

Other options:

Jarryd Lyons (Crows)- 20yo. Ruckrover. From Sandringham. Squeezed out by Crows mids, Thompson, Sloane, Dangerfield, Vince.etc. Psd #2

Mav Weller - 21 yo- young talented rover. Squeezed out by Ablett, OMeara, Bennell, Prestia etc Psd#2

Mitch Clark.

  On 04/07/2013 at 12:52, CBDees said:

I was staggered to log on and see talk of trading Howe, as Hogan is this year for Casey, Howe is for Melbourne, an excitement machine to compensate for attending and watch defeats. Not since Robbo left have we had anyone near exciting unless you count the now-departed Jurrah and Aussie. Keep at all costs I say as the five marking forwards that everybody speaks of are prone to injury. We need him!

As the team moves forward though, if he's merely a marking highlight reel, that shouldn't cut it if we're serious. If he can bring the work-rate that will enable him to get to reach the Ryan O'Keefe level (nod to rpfc), he will be worthy of being deemed 'untouchable'. I'll admit his marking seems to bring a lot of the kids along, but it doesn't do a great deal for me if that's all he's going to bring. LJ was the same by the end of things. No doubt very talented, but put it or you'll be pushed off.

Can see the point people are making about Howe, and you definitely need to give good to get good in trades.

My only reservation is that if we ever get our midfield to the stage where we're getting 50-something instead of 30-something inside-50s per game, would Howe then be an essential part of a lethal forward line?

Howe would give use the opportunity of picking up an A grade mid. We don't have much else to trade and its possible

we won't develop him much more. A good 22 + year old mid fielder may put wins on the board. That brings fans back.

I love the idea of speccies. Let's get Jurrah back. He can do that.

We need to win games. A better midfield will win us games. How do we get a better midfield? We trade what we have surplus of. Howe is surplus. He isn't a mid and I bet he'd get defended out of big contests. Bodying him takes him out and he is not very useful when the ball hits the ground.

I want to win games. We need a midfield. We do not need Howe. We need three midfielders and two decent crumbers. Howe is not any of these things.

I do not want to lose him. Where are the better options? Who else gets us what we want?

I doubt Howe gets us what we want, unless what we want is to keep him and build a decent midfield ourselves.

The club actually needs him to generate excitement with the fans whilst we are still struggling as a club.

I want to keep Howe but if we can trade him to GWS for Taylor Adams AND pick 1 then I'm up for it!

  On 04/07/2013 at 22:18, timD said:

I love the idea of speccies. Let's get Jurrah back. He can do that.

We need to win games. A better midfield will win us games. How do we get a better midfield? We trade what we have surplus of. Howe is surplus. He isn't a mid and I bet he'd get defended out of big contests. Bodying him takes him out and he is not very useful when the ball hits the ground.

I want to win games. We need a midfield. We do not need Howe. We need three midfielders and two decent crumbers. Howe is not any of these things.

I do not want to lose him. Where are the better options? Who else gets us what we want?

So we have Hogan, Dawes, Clarke, Watts, Howe

Hogan: promising, can't be expected to carry the forward line and be kicking bags in his first year.

Dawes: not a regular goal kicker and more of a lead up to the wings type that sends it into 50

Clark: will he return? No one can guarantee that.

Watts: only just starting to find the ball in the forward 50 against fellow cellar dwellers, will look at his performances in the run home with great interest.

Howe: inconsistent player that that has been pushed into numerous positions during the course of a game, still leading our goal kicking table

Howe I think can become something special, not just a one trick pony. He is smaller than all of our other marking forwards yet can win the ball against opposition smaller and taller than him, he is a genuine opposition match up headache and brings something different to the table than our other forwards. He has had half a season in one of the worst Melbourne's side in history to try and develop his game in the midfield, think we can give him more time than that... no one has looked good there except N. Jones.

Luckily we still have him until 2015. If the perception is that he is only taking hangers, drifting in and out of games then fine... I'll be happy to trade. He will still be valuable then and won't be a restricted free agent. At the moment, if you're so desperate to get rid of marking forwards, I would be looking at Watts (prepares for lynch mob). Only just starting to show some of the intensity needed but would be surplus to needs in the big tall forwards department with Hogan & Clark (maybe?) having both the mobility and skill to match. Not to mention Watts is out of contract and I suspect would have a higher currency to get the deal done + some.

Edit: Watts trade subject to the return of Mitch Clark back to full fitness.

  On 05/07/2013 at 00:22, hayz said:

I want to keep Howe but if we can trade him to GWS for Taylor Adams AND pick 1 then I'm up for it!

So in other words we keep Howe.

  On 04/07/2013 at 22:18, timD said:

I love the idea of speccies. Let's get Jurrah back. He can do that.

We need to win games. A better midfield will win us games. How do we get a better midfield? We trade what we have surplus of. Howe is surplus. He isn't a mid and I bet he'd get defended out of big contests. Bodying him takes him out and he is not very useful when the ball hits the ground.

I want to win games. We need a midfield. We do not need Howe. We need three midfielders and two decent crumbers. Howe is not any of these things.

I do not want to lose him. Where are the better options? Who else gets us what we want?

I still think Howe can be an incredibly damaging midfielder who spends a great deal of time forward.

Mids have to rotate through the forward line, today's game demands it. If you know what to do when you get down there, you are priceless.

I think he can do it. He has been poor when asked to go through there I agree. But I don't want to give up just yet.

If I were Craig I would get him to start at HFF and give Trengove a rest for 5 minutes here and there. This leads me to be a supporter of the 80 rotations limit but that is another thread...