Probably the most ridiculous thing I've ever read in demonland to be honest.

You haven't met Freak then?

There is no comparison between Wines or Toumpas.

People get caught up in draft positions, but Wines was head and shoulders above Toumpas in 2012 under 18's and still is.

Nothing changes and players don't miraculously become better because they were picked top 3.

I'm not sure I understand your argument. Are you saying that "player x" who had better form than "player y" in the U18's will always be a better player come AFL?

I'm not sure I understand your argument. Are you saying that "player x" who had better form than "player y" in the U18's will always be a better player come AFL?

I am saying people get caught up in draft postions, which in reality doesn't mean much - it certainly doesn't add anything to the players tool bag, it's just a number.

Wines - like Dustin Martin - had better form leading into the draft than their counter parts, Sidebottom is another one, all dual sided, win their own ball players.

IMO both Martin, Sidebottom and Wines will be absolute stars and all went later than they should have.

When you compare players in the mould of Wines, they succeed more than outside flankers that we seem hell bent on stock piling at our club.

Edited July 26, 201312 yr by ThreeOneSix

Yes, Jimmy Toumpas had an absolute stinker and was subbed out.

But what I find most astonishing is that people are dismissing the FACT that the week before he had 20 possies and 7 tackles against the best team in the land, on their turf and in dismal conditions.

Oh and by the way Wines had 8 possies against a far less superior opposition and in far better conditions.

These boys are still kids!!!!!!

They will be up and down until they mature. Although Wines is already a boy in a mans body.

Jimmy had no preseason. At least let him get a full preseason in before making any judgment/predictions on him.

It's not the stats that are concerning some, it's the way he's playing. He could have 30 possessions, but I may not necessarily be impressed. Conversely he could have 15 and I could love his game.

Jimmy may well become A-grader and I was all for recruiting him, but it's fair to say I've been very surprised and somewhat disappointed with his transition to AFL footy in albeit his first year.

Edited July 27, 201312 yr by Ben-Hur

Tipping Jimmy to have a big one today. Good show of confidence from Craig and co not to drop him.

Tipping Jimmy to have a big one today. Good show of confidence from Craig and co not to drop him.

I agree we Craig gave fitzy a stretch of games and it has boosted his confidence and output. Even after Fitz didn't touch the pill against Geelong he came back the next week to show some form and I expect jimmy to do the same.

I have a feeling that Jimmy Toumpas is a front runner and will only do well if the team is on top of the opposition so he has the space to play in.

However the photo of Viney and Wines together from round one made me realize that we really stuffed up by not taking Ollie. Wines is large compared to Jack Viney and would provide us with the drive that we do not have and require desperately.

Yes Jimmy Toumpas would be a good player with a very good side, he is not the player that will drive us up the ladder like Wines would do for us. Watching him play for Port Adelaide makes me cry that we have such idiots at our club that do not understand what we need to drive the team to become a successful club.

I have a feeling that Jimmy Toumpas is a front runner and will only do well if the team is on top of the opposition so he has the space to play in.

However the photo of Viney and Wines together from round one made me realize that we really stuffed up by not taking Ollie. Wines is large compared to Jack Viney and would provide us with the drive that we do not have and require desperately.

Yes Jimmy Toumpas would be a good player with a very good side, he is not the player that will drive us up the ladder like Wines would do for us. Watching him play for Port Adelaide makes me cry that we have such idiots at our club that do not understand what we need to drive the team to become a successful club.

Fool. Supporters like you make the rest of us embarrassed! You realise from a photo who will lead our Club into the future???? If size was all that mattered, Sellar would be our saviour. Obviously not. It is easier to teach a skilled player to put his head over it than it is to teach a monster how to kick and quickly summarise his best options. This is not a dig at Ollie as I believe him to be a great kid.

I have a feeling that Jimmy Toumpas is a front runner and will only do well if the team is on top of the opposition so he has the space to play in.

However the photo of Viney and Wines together from round one made me realize that we really stuffed up by not taking Ollie. Wines is large compared to Jack Viney and would provide us with the drive that we do not have and require desperately.

Yes Jimmy Toumpas would be a good player with a very good side, he is not the player that will drive us up the ladder like Wines would do for us. Watching him play for Port Adelaide makes me cry that we have such idiots at our club that do not understand what we need to drive the team to become a successful club.

I guess that's why he played his best game for us when we were well on top of Geelong???

Look it is a long way to go for him, we all know that. Give him some time to prove himself or not whatever the case will be, Ricciuto reckons he will be a gun and that's enough for me at the moment.

but it's fair to say I've been very surprised and somewhat disappointed with his transition to AFL footy in albeit his first year.

That would sum up the year for you wouldn't it?

I'm surprised when seasoned footy supporters build up draft picks in preseason only to be disappointed when 18yo fail to dominate in adult competition.

I doubt this year will be any different. I reckon if you'd read Abletts crits in his first few years they would have expressed the same views.

Give the kids a chance.

The thing that i have found interesting is that this year a point was made by coaches and people out of the club that we were not going to have any expectations over our draft picks and just let them play,

for some reason we have this weird idea that Toumpas who has played what 8? games should be able to do what he did against Geelong week in week out, we know his best game this year was very good, so even if he doesn't play that well for the rest of the season, he has shown me enough that i am convinced he is going to be a very VERY good player for us.

That would sum up the year for you wouldn't it?

I'm surprised when seasoned footy supporters build up draft picks in preseason only to be disappointed when 18yo fail to dominate in adult competition.

I doubt this year will be any different. I reckon if you'd read Abletts crits in his first few years they would have expressed the same views.

Give the kids a chance.

Jimmy Bartel wrote an article discussing this exact thing. Everyone sees a Selwood or Judd come in and dominate from the start and think if an 18yo doesn't come in and do then they are no good. It's crap and I feel sorry for some of these kids that those players have put the pressure on them. Just let them play and get a feel for the game.

Fool. Supporters like you make the rest of us embarrassed! You realise from a photo who will lead our Club into the future???? If size was all that mattered, Sellar would be our saviour. Obviously not. It is easier to teach a skilled player to put his head over it than it is to teach a monster how to kick and quickly summarise his best options. This is not a dig at Ollie as I believe him to be a great kid.

If you could use a football brain I was pointing out that Wines has the size and ability to be a real driving force for the team now and in the future. To be blunt I think we made a big mistake and so far Ollie Wines is showing the Melbourne idiots what they are missing out on.

The big point with Wines is that he WANTED TO PLAY FOR MELBOURNE with his mate Jack Viney.

As for the Geelong game it was such a bad day that it would be hard to judge. Fitzpatrick hardly touched the ball. But I think he will be a real asset for us.

That would sum up the year for you wouldn't it?

I'm surprised when seasoned footy supporters build up draft picks in preseason only to be disappointed when 18yo fail to dominate in adult competition.

I doubt this year will be any different. I reckon if you'd read Abletts crits in his first few years they would have expressed the same views.

Give the kids a chance.

Maybe I watch players more closely than you. I never expected him to "dominate", but he's been well below my modest expectations.

EDIT: But that doesn't mean I've put a line through him as a player or have wiped any prospect of him becoming a gun. It's simply an objective evaluation of his first season.

Edited July 27, 201312 yr by Ben-Hur

If you could use a football brain I was pointing out that Wines has the size and ability to be a real driving force for the team now and in the future. To be blunt I think we made a big mistake and so far Ollie Wines is showing the Melbourne idiots what they are missing out on.

The big point with Wines is that he WANTED TO PLAY FOR MELBOURNE with his mate Jack Viney.

As for the Geelong game it was such a bad day that it would be hard to judge. Fitzpatrick hardly touched the ball. But I think he will be a real asset for us.

So if a kid wants to play for Melbourne then we should draft him?

You have a great football brain,

If he is fit he plays. He was drafted for a reason. Give him games and time, this year is shot. Call it on job training.

I have a feeling that Jimmy Toumpas is a front runner and will only do well if the team is on top of the opposition so he has the space to play in.

However the photo of Viney and Wines together from round one made me realize that we really stuffed up by not taking Ollie. Wines is large compared to Jack Viney and would provide us with the drive that we do not have and require desperately.

Yes Jimmy Toumpas would be a good player with a very good side, he is not the player that will drive us up the ladder like Wines would do for us. Watching him play for Port Adelaide makes me cry that we have such idiots at our club that do not understand what we need to drive the team to become a successful club.

Yeah I do agree with you 100%.

But, Toumpas did have a limited pre-season, had injuries coming in he was recovering from and has a weak core atm.

So, he'll no doubt improve next year after a full pre-season.

Still, I do bag the kid a bit myself and understand why others do, as he didn't even get a kick last week, which simply isn't good enough, lets be honest and not make excuses.

Like most, I really hope Toumpas can turn it around today, he comes across as an absolute ripping young kid.

As far as their draft year goes, I think Wines and O'Meara are standouts and if Toumpas eventually ends up just under those freaks, we'll be stoked.

I think today was one of his better games. Made a couple of errors (should have had a crack at goal ffs) but was very good in the main. Used the ball quite well, hitting most targets. Played mainly in the back line, which is unusual for him. I especially liked his mongrel when he and Harvey scuffled. He didn't take a backwards step.

What is very disappointing is how little spirit there seems to be in our team. Only Grimes came in to fly the flag. Everyone else had a look and turned away. When you expect a 19 year old to show some fire, it doesn't bode well for our Club.

He is getting better and better as the year went on, at this point i am comfortable with the decision to draft him instead of Wines.

I have a feeling that Jimmy Toumpas is a front runner and will only do well if the team is on top of the opposition so he has the space to play in.

.......

I guess that explains why he had such a good game vs Geelong ! NOT !

I think today was one of his better games. Made a couple of errors (should have had a crack at goal ffs) but was very good in the main. Used the ball quite well, hitting most targets. Played mainly in the back line, which is unusual for him. I especially liked his mongrel when he and Harvey scuffled. He didn't take a backwards step.

Some of this stuff has been coached out of the players. Toumpas kicked these goals in the SANFL and didn't think twice about it.

I have a feeling that Jimmy Toumpas is a front runner and will only do well if the team is on top of the opposition so he has the space to play in.

However the photo of Viney and Wines together from round one made me realize that we really stuffed up by not taking Ollie. Wines is large compared to Jack Viney and would provide us with the drive that we do not have and require desperately.

Yes Jimmy Toumpas would be a good player with a very good side, he is not the player that will drive us up the ladder like Wines would do for us. Watching him play for Port Adelaide makes me cry that we have such idiots at our club that do not understand what we need to drive the team to become a successful club.

Buddy Franklin is a front runner

North Melbourne are a team of front runners

Melbourne of 2004 were front runners

Gosh darn it give me a team of front runners again. Or any type of runners for heavens sake

at the moment wines would help our side a whole lot more than toumpas

Maybe I watch players more closely than you.

I reckon you had a shocker of a pre-season on and off the field.

I hope next year is better.

we got this pick wrong

how unusual