Rookie elevation for Tom Couch & James Magner in this years draft?

[DeeSpencer 24,762]

I am somewhat amazed that even in our current state, this habit of pigeon holing players as being "VFL standard" persists.

On current form, Couch and Magner should both be inclusions. There is simply nothing to lose and everything to gain by playing them.

Name me a guy who we had pigeon hold as VFL standard who actually shrugged that off and has made it in our team? I'd say anyone with half an ounce of talent at Melbourne is more likely to be hailed a star than a VFL player.

There's not a heap to lose but at the same time there are only 11 games left, how many spots do you want to fill with guys who might not be around for much longer?

[PJ_12345 1,098]

Unfortunately in terms of skill at this stage Blease, Bail, McKenzie and Magner are VFL players.

McKenzie is improving, and I would definately like to see what another preseason can do. He has a good work rate, and as the master pointed out I have been worried about our small mid.

I have left Couch out because we haven't really seen what he can do. 3 games in is first season isn't really an accurate indicator. I'd like to see him play a couple of games this season.

At the end of the day these players are great to fill in the holes in our list this year, but under anyother circumstance wouldn't be in the team...

[Demoneyes 562]

Actually would like to see Tapscott in the middle. Many guys would go a step sideways when confronted by him! I still say give Couch a go also. What is the point of having him there racking up 30+ disposals a week in the 2's? Give him a go!

[P-man 13,366]

Name me a guy who we had pigeon hold as VFL standard who actually shrugged that off and has made it in our team? I'd say anyone with half an ounce of talent at Melbourne is more likely to be hailed a star than a VFL player.

There's not a heap to lose but at the same time there are only 11 games left, how many spots do you want to fill with guys who might not be around for much longer?

In the current team? You're limiting the field there a bit. I've already stated that I think Magner has performed admirably when played in his natural position. Certainly well enough to hold down a spot in this team.

I'm not sure what point you're tyring to make exactly? That there is a reason VFL players are in the VFL? Tell that to Brett Goodes, or Sam Dwyer, or Kyle Martin, or Dayne Zorko (QLD but same principle applies). The bottom line is we are CRAVING midfielders who know how to find the ball and are willing to gut run for four quarters, and we have two of them sitting there ready to go.

I believe right now, we need to be picking our most competitive 22. It is imperative that we start putting in competitive performances, for so many reasons. In a fortunate twist, our best 22 includes alot of youngsters, so we are ticking off that "development" box. Couch's consistent performances this year have earned him another soiid crack in the seniors, there is absolutely no doubting that. He and Magner WILL make us a more competitive unit.

When Casey are beating Collingwood seconds by 15 goals, and our seniors can barely get a kick, something has to give.

[titan_uranus 24,626]

Tapscott (who has been sub the last 2 weeks which makes it somewhat irrelevant) is playing as a half forward. I doubt Couch or Magner could play the role any better than him and I certainly think Tapscott has more potential in this position.

McKenzie is tagging and I'm not sure how many he had in the first half but Sidebottom finished with 19 disposals which to me indicates McKenzie is doing his job. McKenzie also managed 18 of his own disposals. I know a half fit McKenzie in a VFL practice match at the start of this year got just as many disposals as Couch and Magner.

Couch is 2 years older and 9cm shorter than McKenzie. Magner 3 years older and 5cm shorter than McKenzie. Now I know height isn't an important part of being a midfielder but it's also a scope thing. The simple fact is that if one of those guys is tagging a David Mundy or a Jobe Watson and they push forward and go for a mark they will find it very hard to spoil him.

Really what my point is that McKenzie has played so good quality games for us and has incredibly discipline and drive. I think that makes him a better player than these two.

Considering the results we are getting I'd certainly send McKenzie back to the reserves for a week at some point to focus his attacking skills but I'd play Magner as a ball winning midfielder and put the defensive time in to Trengove/Sylvia/Blease maybe even Tapscott. But for our next game I'd be sending McKenzie straight to Dal Santo and not changing things.

Your assessment of Tapscott is flattering in the extreme. He's been the sub the last two weeks due to a lack of input before that. He's not adding anything to the side right now, whether he has potential or not.

Fair assessment of McKenzie v Couch and Magner. I wasn't aware of the age difference. I see what you're saying about height of mids, but if we're playing a mid because he's a few centimetres taller than other mids in the off chance these mids need to be spoiling their opponents, we're picking players for the wrong reason. In terms of the drive of these three players, I haven't seen anything to suggest that Magner and Couch lack the drive McKenzie has - their continual good form at Casey suggests they're busting the door down trying to get called up. His stopping work has been commendable, at times he's shut down some great mids. But in 2013 I don't think he's played as well as he has in previous years, and I don't think that he is adding much to the side. I would like to see what Magner and/or Couch can do in the AFL side. Simultaneously sending McKenzie to Casey to get him to be more offensive kills two birds with one stone.

In the end, it may well be the case that none of these three are long-term AFL players. I'm certainly not in the position right now where I think any of them are.

[Clark_Kent 315]

I believe right now, we need to be picking our most competitive 22. It is imperative that we start putting in competitive performances, for so many reasons. In a fortunate twist, our best 22 includes alot of youngsters, so we are ticking off that "development" box. Couch's consistent performances this year have earned him another soiid crack in the seniors, there is absolutely no doubting that. He and Magner WILL make us a more competitive unit.

When Casey are beating Collingwood seconds by 15 goals, and our seniors can barely get a kick, something has to give.

I agree with this and I hate people saying 'oh they aren't going to be here when we win a premiership', does anyone know when we will even play finals? We are in this situation because we were gifting kids games a few years ago and had no senior players leading them, or have we all forgotten that? We should be picking players on merit and if that means a younger player developments in the VFL for a season or two then so be it. Every other club understands this and some of their young kids don't play a game for a season or two.

[Demoneyes 562]

I agree with this and I hate people saying 'oh they aren't going to be here when we win a premiership', does anyone know when we will even play finals? We are in this situation because we were gifting kids games a few years ago and had no senior players leading them, or have we all forgotten that? We should be picking players on merit and if that means a younger player developments in the VFL for a season or two then so be it. Every other club understands this and some of their young kids don't play a game for a season or two.

Yes but we are a little more desperate than other teams at this stage, so the kids are getting a go earlier than they probably should which may be hurting their development?

[Little Richard 6,216]

Yes but we are a little more desperate than other teams at this stage, so the kids are getting a go earlier than they probably should which may be hurting their development?

It really is a vicious cycle caused by terrible recruiting in the last decade.

[Clark_Kent 315]

I guess that is why Neeld and Co. brought in Rodan, Byrnes, Pederson to try and bring in mature age players to force young kids to earn a game at Casey. It is depressing that we are here but it is brought about by years of mistakes and poor list management.