http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/moloney-left-demons-after-snub-over-captaincy-20130530-2neuh.html

This article fills me with some hope for the future.

Seems very clear to me that certain players were only going to ever be destructive to the growth of our young talent.

Interesting direct insight on last years recruiting too.

Rodan's recruitment was explained clearly, and we are crucifying the new recruits only 9 games in when we haven't had a real chance to see what they are made of yet.

Pedersen seems to be finding form as a solid backman, Terlich and M Jones have shown they are capable at this level. Byrnes was recruited for the same reasons as Rodan IMO. Gillies....well you can't win them all.

Add to that the man mountain Hogan coming in next year (see below) and Sylvia staying (hopefully) with the chance of a couple of free agents or homesick GC or GWS players coming on board and there is potential for a quick(ish) turnaround.

Pederson finding form? Whereabouts?

M. Jones? Don't get too excited. Looks slow and not very passionate.

Gillies? Correct assessment.

Rodan? Agreed. He's been a scapegoat continually dropped. Leave him in the team.

Byrnes? Common Man. Huge mistake. The guy struggles in the first level. Sylvia won't stay if Neeld stays. Neither will Frawley.

Hogan. He'll be 18 next year. A big forward playing in the big time. Don't expect too much first couple of years.

well in that case then your wrong. your judgement is wrong based on not understanding what it takes, & because of that, your impression of how easy it is to fix, is way off... thinking it could be done last year??? FFS.

.. we didn't even start the cleanup until After last years Footy Season was finished... can't you understand that the cleanup has only just happened before the start to this season. & the new breed is still pushing up @ Casey... very well as I see it.

we've shed a lot of games experience to get to a core of quality that will take us thru to better times... & some more young ones may not make it yet.... the Key to it is to manage to fill in the gaps in a thin HQ Leadership ranks...

i repeat i am well aware of last year and this year. The Scorps as well.

But you cannot tell me the senior side or coaching panel have been satifactory.

That is how we will be judged. If the senior side is that bad then Neeld & Craig pulled it back to severely too soon.

They have left themselves bugger all to coach. And that is plain stupid

Pederson finding form? Whereabouts?

M. Jones? Don't get too excited. Looks slow and not very passionate.

Gillies? Correct assessment.

Rodan? Agreed. He's been a scapegoat continually dropped. Leave him in the team.

Byrnes? Common Man. Huge mistake. The guy struggles in the first level. Sylvia won't stay if Neeld stays. Neither will Frawley.

Hogan. He'll be 18 next year. A big forward playing in the big time. Don't expect too much first couple of years.

Pederson is not even a spud, Gillies the worst AFL player I've seen since Thurgood and Rodan has done nothing.

But Matt Jones would be in our top 3 best players for the year, the kid is killing it, you're off your head!

Pederson finding form? Whereabouts?M. Jones? Don't get too excited. Looks slow and not very passionate.Gillies? Correct assessment.Rodan? Agreed. He's been a scapegoat continually dropped. Leave him in the team.Byrnes? Common Man. Huge mistake. The guy struggles in the first level. Sylvia won't stay if Neeld stays. Neither will Frawley.Hogan. He'll be 18 next year. A big forward playing in the big time. Don't expect too much first couple of years.

Matt Jones slow and not very passionate?! Don't get excited?! WTF? He's been a great find for a speculative pick. The boy can play. I think the FD have done very well with late picks.

Pedersen has taken 25 marks at CHB over last 2 wks at Casey. He has form.

Frawley will want out if Neeld is sacked. Silvia too. They are behind Neeld. More will leave if Neeld is pushed out than if he stays.

Why aren't we trying to get Hogan signed to a 5 yr deal like GCS did with Martin?

In regard players leaving clubs, I loved Bob Murphy's take on it. When asked if he would leave the Bulldogs to play finals he said what was important to him was that the Bulldogs won a premiership not for him to play in one. Although he knows his premiership window has closed, he wanted to stay and help. Robbie Flower springs to mind here. I hope we have some present players that prove to be of that calibre. I'm sure we will.

I have little to add at this point but I would like to take the opportunity to thank the posters in this thread for sticking on topic, avoiding the trolling we've seen in so many other threads and giving us a very interesting and informative read. I really appreciate hearing about the function and what the internal thought processes of the club are as compared to the sensationalised media version of reality. While ti doesn't make the on-field situation look much better, at least in the short term, it gives me a great lift to have confirmation that there is method behind the madness and that the club is still moving in the right direction.

I agree Ralph. This thread has provided some important insight and context into our current on-field performances, and strengthened my resolve to stick fat with the Neeld regime until at least the end of the season. I'm now even more convinced that what flows from Peter Jackson's involvement will be pivotal to where we find ourselves in two or three years time. Maybe I'll sleep a bit easier tonight.

davey is shot, after studying the replays, his efforts to run down opponents & pressure is woeful...

He is definitely slower, and is still building his tank after a number of major injury interrupted years, but his enthusiasm the last couple of weeks has been good. And his kicking looks back to its deep, penetrating best. Remember a couple of seasons ago when he often tried those little up 'n under 10m passes that travelled at half rat pace? Not doing them anymore. The article in the paper last week when he talked of his renewed passion? this has shown on the field recently. When I saw Davey's kicks spearing towards a teammate 40-50m away over the last couple of weeks, I instantly realised how important elite delivery by foot is and how bad we are at that in general. If Davey continues to improve over the 2nd half of the season, I'd be happy to see him offered another year. After all, how many A grade kicks do we have? Two, maybe 3 at the most. The Hawks would have 15+, I reckon.

But bugger you and all who are lapping up this nonsense---it was not the worst club since Fitzroy when Neeld took over . Was it? Why did we win 4 matches last three actions year, and 1 out of 10 this year, compared with 8.5 each of the two previous years?

None of this makes sense! In my opinion you don't ask players to pick the captain--you take into consideration their views but the football sub-committee then makes the decision.

Say Moloney was disappointed. The previous year he'd been dumped from the leadership group after a serious drinking matter. So did he quit? Get the shits? No, he put his head down and won the B and F. Had I been Neeld he was the last bloke I would have got off-side with

For heavens sake! When will you people admit that the present coach has simply not worked out, it's most unfortunate, I feel sorry for him but we must change course---now!

You can not be serious. You realise you are basically suggesting that Neeld should have come in and tried to appease Moloney just because he won the b&f and a key contributor to the poor culture. Open your eyes. It's because of Moloney and others that Scully felt he should take the money and run. But who cares you say, Neeld should have gone out of his way to appease him? It is that attitude that got us to the horrible state our culture is in at the moment.

If you asked me two days ago about neeld I would have said time to go. A conversation I had yesterday has completely changed my view. He has at least some player support and perhaps he is just feeling the effects of a culmination of bad decisions and cultural problems.

If you asked me two days ago about neeld I would have said time to go. A conversation I had yesterday has completely changed my view. He has at least some player support and perhaps he is just feeling the effects ofva culmination of bad decisions and cultural problems.

With your changed view do you also feel less convinced that he is gone?

Thanks to all those reporting on the meeting. Much appreciated. Just a couple of questions. Did the guys mention what the categories were that the players were judged on? Also was the input equal or was that of the coaches given a higher value?

To me regardless of the process appointing the two Jacks, it was a mistake. Not because I don't think the kids have leadership ability, but just because I don't think they were ready. I had a bit to do with Jack G when he was at the Knights. It was obvious then that he was going to be captaincy material someday. Just a very impressive young man. I do not know enough about Jack T personally, but people I do know and trust, believe that he also has a number of leadership traits. Given the emphasis that Neeld has put on experience as an indicator of a successful side, surely he must have realised the pressure kids who hadn't even played forty games would be under with the added responsibility. Nor did the way they went about it enable them to see who could do the job on matchday during the regular season. As they have found being training champs doesn't always translate to onfield success.

On the culture change. I totally agree something had to be done, but a guy who nearly lost his job because of some of those players was part of the process. Does anyone seriously believe that it really was a clean slate? If it was just about the captaincy for Beamer, why did he have such a good year the year before? Was he sulking then as well when he didn't get the top job?

I don't disagree with a number of the decisions made under Neeld. I do disagree with some of the timing and how some things were carried out.

Can we just stop this captain debate. They were voted in by their peers.....end of story. They will cope ......lack of any pre-season is trengoves issue not the captaincy.... Grimes was just fine ....unfortunately injured. Lets just support them .... They will grow with the team & will not only be exceptional young men but great captains. It is such a pointless debate.....I don't understand the pointless waste of energy debating it......we have been told a million times by neeld ....in fancy every member of the coaching panel, the captains themselves, other players & board members the process & why they were appointed ...so let's put it to rest !!!!

My impression from Neeld last night was that the outcomes of the two surveys was such that they couldn't split the two Jacks. They did mention some categories but sorry I can't remember them. Maybe one of the other participants can remember. My feeling now that we have been through annus horribilis x 1 1/2 I would have had Jack G as Captain and Jack T as Vice.

Just as an aside re Jack G - Jack's father has been into the Club to work with the Volunteers as a Volunteer to make calls to reluctant non financial members; Jack G has sent messages of encouragement and thanks to the Volunteers for the time they were spending supporting the Club.

One thing Nate said last night that because of the team's disappointing performances that both Jacks have had to spend an inordinate amount of time supporting their team mates.

I really wish that all of Demonland could have been there last night. It was a real revelation to listen to the three of them talk so passionately about the Club. Despite this I still believe that the Coaching of the Club should be looked at again at the end of the season once we get Clark and Grimes back and boys like Toumpas and Viney have had more game time. We don't have the luxury of other teams to have significant back up players when we have injuries. We need all our players on the field and once that happens if there is no improvement then revisit the coaching.

Can we just stop this captain debate. They were voted in by their peers.....end of story. They will cope ......lack of any pre-season is trengoves issue not the captaincy.... Grimes was just fine ....unfortunately injured. Lets just support them .... They will grow with the team & will not only be exceptional young men but great captains. It is such a pointless debate.....I don't understand the pointless waste of energy debating it......we have been told a million times by neeld ....in fancy every member of the coaching panel, the captains themselves, other players & board members the process & why they were appointed ...so let's put it to rest !!!!

That is part of the point mate. Jack G came into the league after a nasty injury. He has had injuries whilst in the league and is injured now. Wouldn't it have been better for him to establish himself as a player and make sure his body is right?

So did the FD choose the captains or did the players?

It does not matter the process. If the coach left it to the players without his affirmation, then it is a further black mark on his incompetent leadership. At the end of the day it is his decision. He is responsible. My opinion is he did not see the downside of the decision and prevent it. Yes inadequate leadership. And don't forget this was in the context of sacking the entire leadership team of the previous year. That in itself would have caused a psychological split in the team.

i repeat i am well aware of last year and this year. The Scorps as well.

But you cannot tell me the senior side or coaching panel have been satifactory.

That is how we will be judged. If the senior side is that bad then Neeld & Craig pulled it back to severely too soon.

They have left themselves bugger all to coach. And that is plain stupid

again, I know you can read... >

OUTS: Green, Moloney, Rivers, Bartram, Petterd, Bate, Jurrah, Martin, Gysberts, Morton, Bennell, Cook, Sheahan ®, Williams ®, Lawrence ®

what is it you don't understand? of course we've gone backwards on the list, we've lost heaps of games experience & years of maturity... but also helped with reforming this clubs culture going forward.

for every action...

*** {satisfactory}, the disappointment by our supporters is felt by all of us, & is because our hopes were to be up up & away... but we hadn't really taken things into account, with of a list like this of players gone from the club.

& there would have been plenty of shocked & suspicious minds about the place, not to mention many voices now outside who are voicing their dissatisfaction...

but we've only overestimated the ladder position going into this season, as we've all underestimated the size of the culture problems that the club has carried.

... your wishing well, won't make it better WYL.

Only doing the hard yards properly, will get this club out of the defeatist culture that has progressed since at least the early 70's...

So did the FD choose the captains or did the players?

It does not matter the process. If the coach left it to the players without his affirmation, then it is a further black mark on his incompetent leadership. At the end of the day it is his decision. He is responsible. My opinion is he did not see the downside of the decision and prevent it. Yes inadequate leadership. And don't forget this was in the context of sacking the entire leadership team of the previous year. That in itself would have caused a psychological split in the team.

My impression from Neeld last night was that the outcomes of the two surveys was such that they couldn't split the two Jacks. They did mention some categories but sorry I can't remember them. Maybe one of the other participants can remember. My feeling now that we have been through annus horribilis x 1 1/2 I would have had Jack G as Captain and Jack T as Vice.Just as an aside re Jack G - Jack's father has been into the Club to work with the Volunteers as a Volunteer to make calls to reluctant non financial members; Jack G has sent messages of encouragement and thanks to the Volunteers for the time they were spending supporting the Club.One thing Nate said last night that because of the team's disappointing performances that both Jacks have had to spend an inordinate amount of time supporting their team mates.I really wish that all of Demonland could have been there last night. It was a real revelation to listen to the three of them talk so passionately about the Club. Despite this I still believe that the Coaching of the Club should be looked at again at the end of the season once we get Clark and Grimes back and boys like Toumpas and Viney have had more game time. We don't have the luxury of other teams to have significant back up players when we have injuries. We need all our players on the field and once that happens if there is no

improvement then revisit the coaching.

Thanks mate:)

There is no question they are good kids, I just wish they didn't have to spend that "inordinate amount of time supporting their team-mates" It wouldbe much easier for them to be able to concentrate more on their own games and getting their bodies right.

If you asked me two days ago about neeld I would have said time to go. A conversation I had yesterday has completely changed my view. He has at least some player support and perhaps he is just feeling the effects ofva culmination of bad decisions and cultural problems.

The question I have is Are the players letting the board know how strongly they support him? We could very well come full circle and find the board at odds with the playing group again if they decide to move on a coach who has the full backing of his players.

I really hope the board don't make any hasty calls here. If they are considering sacking him, they need to canvass the playing group to find out what the feeling is at ground level before deciding. Ignore the media and the online community (ie us) and get all the information from the people who actually know what's going on.

He is definitely slower, and is still building his tank after a number of major injury interrupted years, but his enthusiasm the last couple of weeks has been good. And his kicking looks back to its deep, penetrating best. Remember a couple of seasons ago when he often tried those little up 'n under 10m passes that travelled at half rat pace? Not doing them anymore. The article in the paper last week when he talked of his renewed passion? this has shown on the field recently. When I saw Davey's kicks spearing towards a teammate 40-50m away over the last couple of weeks, I instantly realised how important elite delivery by foot is and how bad we are at that in general. If Davey continues to improve over the 2nd half of the season, I'd be happy to see him offered another year. After all, how many A grade kicks do we have? Two, maybe 3 at the most. The Hawks would have 15+, I reckon.

so did I loved his kicks to advantage, but his defensive side, whoa...

The question I have is Are the players letting the board know how strongly they support him? We could very well come full circle and find the board at odds with the playing group again if they decide to move on a coach who has the full backing of his players.

I really hope the board don't make any hasty calls here. If they are considering sacking him, they need to canvass the playing group to find out what the feeling is at ground level before deciding. Ignore the media and the online community (ie us) and get all the information from the people who actually know what's going on.

main thing I learnt is that what might have happened and is happening within the club might be totally different to what the media and the online community thinks.totally different.

The question I have is Are the players letting the board know how strongly they support him? We could very well come full circle and find the board at odds with the playing group again if they decide to move on a coach who has the full backing of his players.

I really hope the board don't make any hasty calls here. If they are considering sacking him, they need to canvass the playing group to find out what the feeling is at ground level before deciding. Ignore the media and the online community (ie us) and get all the information from the people who actually know what's going on.

That will be the problem as well as the financial ramifications. You would think that Neelds player clearout isn't finished.

Col Sylvia -top clubman.

Never lost any faith in you mate .

Thanks mate:)

There is no question they are good kids, I just wish they didn't have to spend that "inordinate amount of time supporting their team-mates" It wouldbe much easier for them to be able to concentrate more on their own games and getting their bodies right.

In an ideal world it would be best that they didn't have to spend time making sure the other players were OK. I bet the Maxwell's etc don't or ever will have to go through what we/they have. I think what I am trying to say is that both these boys are exactly what we would want in our leaders. As Neal Craig said last night that despite both he and Mark wanting to almost protect the players from the outside noise they also have to allow the players to become resilient which in the end will make them better players but also better people.

main thing I learnt is that what might have happened and is happening within the club might be totally different to what the media and the online community thinks.totally different.

This is what I've thought has been happening all along. The media has to sell papers, and it's always fun to kick the Demons while they are down.