On 19/05/2013 at 08:16, Demon_spurs said:

The best game I ever saw McKenzie play he had 19 handballs and 1 kick. he is a competent tagger, but should never be allowed to kick the ball. I scream at the Teev don't give it Mckenzie, but hey never listen !!!!

If he is solely a tagger why so few tackles. Contract or not ,not up to it.

Some people need to watch the VFL or training or even the Melbourne game.

McKenzie is everything we need right now. Take the good with the bad.

Nicholson is worse but what option do we have. Please name a Wing man on our list we could replace him with.

Barry and Kent are miles from afl. Rodan doesn't cover the ground. Taggert the same and is still getting eased in at AFL.

Don't even start me on Blease.

Sylvia, Grimes, Viney, Toumpas after a preseason, a fit Clisby, a fit Byrnes or Watts. Plenty of options but right now Nicholson is all we have.

  On 19/05/2013 at 09:10, Al said:

If he is solely a tagger why so few tackles. Contract or not ,not up to it.

because you don't have to tackle deledio. What you have to do is get in his space. Besides when he was forward Deledio was largely damage free today.

People aren't saying McKenzie is great but the options just aren't there!!!

  On 19/05/2013 at 09:09, Chook said:

We're bad because we have no targets 50-80 metres out from goal. We need to either recruit a rich man's Brad Miller, or transform one of our many promising tall forwards into that kind of player. We consistently fall down in this area, and it kills us every time. I'm now convinced that this is the reason we're so bad.

In fact, this might be the perfect role for Jack Watts. He has good endurance, can take a mark and has a great kick. Get it done Neeldy!

When Clark comes back, this will be Dawes' job, surely. I felt Dawes had to play both FF and CHF today, had no support at all.

We're bad for a lot of reasons, but I don't think our lack of targets 50-80 is the biggest one.

  On 19/05/2013 at 09:13, titan_uranus said:

When Clark comes back, this will be Dawes' job, surely. I felt Dawes had to play both FF and CHF today, had no support at all.

We're bad for a lot of reasons, but I don't think our lack of targets 50-80 is the biggest one.

It is at the moment, but as you say Clark is not in the side (and of course neither is young Hogan, who I refuse to talk about on grounds of suspicion and jinxes and various other voodoo nonsense).

Only saw the second half, but going of the stats 2 tackles for a tagger is not good enough. 2 tackles a qtr you could allow for poor disposal.

  On 19/05/2013 at 09:10, Al said:

If he is solely a tagger why so few tackles. Contract or not ,not up to it.

Tagging is about more than being a good tackler. There are all these little body movements and pushes you need to master in order to be an effective tagger. McKenzie is better at this than most everyone else on our list. He's no great shakes, but he's good enough to get a game in our team at the moment...which is an indictment on our team I know.

  On 19/05/2013 at 09:10, pitmaster said:

Bail was awful.

Caught out of position a few times so he simply failed to compete or put any pressure on his opponent.

Scouted on goal, which was ok, but when he lined up for that deliberate shot in the last quarter I just knew he would miss.

Just not good enough.

And rpfc if you don't get how McKenzie kicking into the man on the mark killed us as we were pushing then you seriously underestimate the damage he did. A+ for effort but the skills just are not there and miskicks killed us today.

I thought he absolutely had to be dropped after the last two weeks, and after this game not even Neeld would keep him in the side (surely!)

  On 19/05/2013 at 08:55, jnrmac said:

With Bail - Delist.

Bail is fast becoming this decade's Newton.

Bail played fairly well earlier in the year, but has been getting worse every game for about a month now. Get him into the VFL ASAP!!!

Can we blame Dean Bailey? I don't know. Not enough blaming going on in this thread.

Mckenzie has shown enough to be persisted with but Nicholson has had way to many chances and is clearly not part of our future (a list clogger - bit like Bate).

The MFC at the end of this year need to decide who has the potential to be part of our future and who doesn't (Nicho, Gilles, Rodan, Macdonald, Couch etc). These guys are not ahead of Mckenzie

Replace these list cloggers with young players with potential and we have a future!

  On 19/05/2013 at 09:13, the master said:

because you don't have to tackle deledio. What you have to do is get in his space. Besides when he was forward Deledio was largely damage free today.

People aren't saying McKenzie is great but the options just aren't there!!!

I realise the options aren't there yet. I would like to think next year the options are there. Depth player until his contract expires. Can't fault his endeavour but thats not enough.

  On 19/05/2013 at 08:55, jnrmac said:

With Bail - Delist.

Bail is fast becoming this decade's Newton.

At least Newton had size about him. Bail has "run" in him...apparently. He is exposed further in a poor team. He offers little. I'd say he'll go soon too.

Gee our bottom end players are just that, bottom end, would be better off playing kids then these spuds.

  On 19/05/2013 at 09:26, Young Dee said:

Mckenzie has shown enough to be persisted with but Nicholson has had way to many chances and is clearly not part of our future (a list clogger - bit like Bate).

The MFC at the end of this year need to decide who has the potential to be part of our future and who doesn't (Nicho, Gilles, Rodan, Macdonald, Couch etc). These guys are not ahead of Mckenzie

Replace these list cloggers with young players with potential and we have a future!

If he's in our best 22, then no matter how regrettable that fact may be, there's no way he will be delisted.

  On 19/05/2013 at 09:31, Demonfan26 said:

Gee our bottom end players are just that, bottom end, would be better off playing kids then these spuds.

No, we wouldn't. We just wouldn't. Playing kids who aren't ready just doesn't work.

  On 19/05/2013 at 09:32, Nasher said:

No, we wouldn't. We just wouldn't. Playing kids who aren't ready just doesn't work.

It's what got us into this deplorable mess in the first place. I would think ALL Melbourne supporters would have figured that out by now.

  On 19/05/2013 at 08:01, Jonesbag said:

Get out

Both butcher the ball every game.

Both do not have a football brain.

Skills are below VFL standard. Agree, get out!

Im normally not a Mckenzie fan but thought he was good today

Nicholson. When you weigh about 70 kgs then why the hell do you think you're going to be able take and break a tackle? Kills me every time.

And McKenzie loses his feet too much. Sure, he's desperate - but the amount of times he handballs straight to someones feet is ridiculous. He's always in the midst of a clumsy dive.

Still in our best 22. Hopefully temporarily.

King, Jackson, White just 3 horrible footballers in Richmonds team today and arguably best 22 in a side who can be perfectly good enough to play finals.

When the AFL went from 16 to 18 teams it was a bit like oh good teams will still have a spud to now most good teams may have 2 spuds.

You hope it's a forward pocket or back up mid but even Hawthorn have Puopolo and others get frequent games based on what they do off the field not on!

Mckenzie does work hard, does the tackles / pressure stuff, As does Bail etc.

But neither get the ball enough.

I think Nicholson is a work in progress still.

With M jones, N Jones, Viney in the team. All who do the hard stuff plus getting plenty of the ball themselves.

It means McKenzie and Bails long term positions are very vunerable.

If we swapped them both today with Cotchin and Delido for example, It makes a massive difference i would have thought.

We so got to target midfeilders next year. In all drafts.

Ok ok people relax, obviously I have ruffled a few feathers with one of my references towards these two players and for that I will of course apologise.

Sick of seeing players not being able to go back and kick over the mark though, kills me every time I see it. I mean it's basic footy that is learnt in junior days!

Once again, I do apologise for the reference, will be more careful with my words next time.

Nicholson, that's easy enough, Blease will replace him once he's pulled his finger out and re-discovers the form he showed late last year. I also think Toumpas would be good off half back and also watch out for Clisby on the rookie list who's shown some nice signs IMO.

McKenzie is our best tagger but needs to be replaced with someone who can cover the ground better and get the ball ans hurt their opponent the other way if they're not accountable. I always thought Bail could fill this role, however his forms been concerning. I reckon Matt Jones is another who could fill it, certainly has the work rate for it. Otherwise in the off-season I could see us chasing Adam Selwood or Farren Ray to cover the role on a temporary basis.

  On 19/05/2013 at 09:38, Mongrel Dee said:

Both butcher the ball every game.

Both do not have a football brain.

Skills are below VFL standard. Agree, get out!

Have now watched the whole game. Each of Nicholson and McKenzie buggered up disposals in the last quarter, but otherwise they were not bad at al. In fact Nicholson kicked beautifully on several occasions, with a good goal. Get off his back. Some of McKenzie's handball was great. He should never kick. diesel Williams kicked rarely and he wasnt too bad

We al have our favorites, one of whom is Tappy. In truth his productivity was poor. I still think he's a Defender. And big Max was poor also. And how you guys could give Dawes a vote is a mystery. He buggered up several marks and gave away frees galore. He does present a target though

At the moment Jordie has not come into the team with any sort of form. He is struggling to keep pace with some of the elite mids he has to tag and is fumbling and turning the ball over. He will never kick it more than 20 if he cannot handball. Is he under instruction to not kick? He is really struggling in the midfield at center bounces. I always thought him the logical replacement for junior and to be no 1 tackler but he hasn't been able to rise to the challenge. What to do?

I was really frustrated with McKenzie today. He fluffed and fumbled almost everything. If he had clean possession, we had paths out of contests. His fumbles ensured these were missed and it either led to a turnover, or a shut down. Then kicking into the mark!

He has to fix this. The keystone cops try hard, but never win. McKenzie is a keystone cop.

Nicholson, on the other hand, dis some ok things and is worth another chance.

Perhaps it is confidence and self belief.