What are the implications for us?

[binman 43,813]

i cant believe these young men were stupid enough to fall for the old trick that the club doctor said its fine everybody does this.

And further to that what a joke blaming the doctor because he showed them some dodgy letter. WADA have denied providing any letter so lets say there was one Dank was flashing around. It makes not a scintilla of difference that he may have misled the club, just as the players are responsible for their choice of doctor so is the club. If he is a quack then it is on their head not his. Oh and of course a copy was not kept, you wouldn't bother to keep a copy would you given the implications of half your team taking a banned substance.

[jazza 1,323]

no letters

no excuses

2 year bans should apply

its the only way the afl can show all future and current players the only way to go.

future players parents will be watching

[PJ_12345 1,098]

no letters

no excuses

2 year bans should apply

its the only way the afl can show all future and current players the only way to go.

future players parents will be watching

Thats what happened with Shane Warne - 2 year ban

[jazza 1,323]

Thats what happened with Shane Warne - 2 year ban

and it should of.

what idiot believed that he took a tablet given to him by his mother ha ha , it will help you face and make it look thinner for you tv appearance. the board of control didnt believe that story either

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

Pretty disgusting :/ deserve whatever they get in my opinion

[PJ_12345 1,098]

and it should of.

what idiot believed that he took a tablet given to him by his mother ha ha , it will help you face and make it look thinner for you tv appearance. the board of control didnt believe that story either

It proves that ignorance isnt a defence when it comes to drugs in sport.

Essendon has 'ignorance' written all over it

[casey scorp 2]

They will get the due penalty.

It might take time to roll through - WADA/ASADA don't move quickly, but they move methodically and inexorably.

No-one will stop the inevitable - lawyers (who'll make a lot of money on the way), or the AFL (who won't want to be seen by sports administrators to be recalcitrant).

Australia and the AFL are absolute minnows in the WADA wide world of sport - no-one outside Australia knows about or is interested in AFL. But we are subject to the world-wide rules and sanctions.

[Nascent 9,283]

If a player is suspended for 6 months what does this actually mean? Obviously he can't play but can he continue to train with the club?

The reason i ask is the talk is the ASADA/AFL investigation will take a few more months (read just near end of season). Lets say Essendon (and possible Trengove god forbid) players cop 6 months (which is what Dr. Peter Bruckner suggests in the Age would be the best case scenario) at the end of the 2013 season, they would be right to play at the beginning of the 2014 season.

This would save the AFL (who hand down penalties - though ASADA would have to OK them) the problem of Essendon not being able to field a team (with all the implications) and if the players could still train they would be right to go in 2014. All sounds a bit convenient i suppose but i could see it play out this way.

Pretty sure the suspension would be 6 months of competition not just 6 calendar months - so they would miss a whole season.

I was thinking about this last night as well and hopefully it can be officially cleared up soon. If you're right Dr. Gonzo and players had to serve their suspensions in season, the full 2 year ban would equate to missing 4 seasons of footy (6 months each in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017).

This article in The Age what-next-for-essendon- suggests that players may be able to reduce their bans by 50% (1 year ban) through arguing no significant fault or negligence. The only way to reduce the ban down to 6 months appears highly unlikely to happen after reading the following paragraph.

The third relevant clause is 10.5.3, Substantial Assistance in Discovering or Establishing Anti-Doping Rule Violations.

This clause states: "An anti-doping organisation . . . may . . . suspend a part of the period of ineligibility imposed in an individual case where the athlete or other person has provided substantial assistance to an anti-doping organisation, criminal authority or professional disciplinary body which results in the anti-doping organisation discovering or establishing an anti-doping rule violation by another person or which results in a criminal or disciplinary body discovering or establishing a criminal offence or the breach of professional rules by another person . . . No more than three-quarters of the otherwise applicable period of ineligibility may be suspended."

So it is a possibility that players, if charged and suspended, may be able to reduce their bans by half and only serve 1 year bans, but they may yet have to sit out 2 full years of competition i.e. 6 months served in season 2014 and 6 months served in 2015.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Nascent

[Sir Why You Little 37,134]

The back page of the Hun today is pure Art.

How did your interview go Jimmy?

If the AFL are serious to stop this then the full bans must be applied.

Otherwise Vlad should walk..Remember he was holidaying in london when this stuff was still going down.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

Also there is alot of hype over this supposed letter Dank showed Essendon re AOD9604...

Still doesnt explain:

• Thymosin (some approved types, however the Cronulla Sharks took the banned type when Dank was there)
• Cerebrolysin (not yet approved in Australia meaning its a banned substance)
• Melanotan (not yet approved in Australia meaning its a banned substance)
• And the other concoctions such as bark/pigs brain/mothers cow milk (some of which is yet to be trialed on humans)

I wish a reporter will do their job and ask WADA/ASADA about the implications of these other drugs that are banned (Thymosin, Cerebrolysin, Melanotan) and gunnie pig substances... instead like usual they are getting distracted by smoke and mirrors

Either way you look at it Essendon is guilty. Now just a matter of how many players took a banned substance and what are the penalties.

The AFL came down hard on us, even when we were found not guilty of tanking, to discourage it... I hope they will follow the same practice and discourage banned substances. 2 years + more than two found guilty then club penalties

[hardtack 10,627]

Is it possible that the players will receive 6 month suspensions (one full season) courtesy of ASADA and the AFL as a show of "strength" will impose further financial penalties on the club as well as a season or two playing for zero premiership points?

[dee-luded 2,959]

the real worry hear is that the MFC has admitted our players wee injected by Dank last year with 'vitamins'

chances that this Dank loser was only using vitamins are about 10,000 to 1

I think we might be in big trouble

I imagine that the imported ingredients, may have been mixed here in Aus, without too many indetail records...

it may well be impossible to prove who has which illegal substance in the bodies, unless its detailed on record & recorded as administered by a practitioner & signed.

proof has got to be made surely.

[P-man 13,366]

Still quite shocked over this I will admit.

Part of me is reluctant to join a witch hunt, given we know all too well what it's like being on the receiving end. However, drug cheating is about as serious as it gets in professional sport, especially as it is now believed it went beyond the AOD injections which alone would be quite serious.

The punishment handed out simply has to match the offence - 6 months as a bare minimum for players involved and no premiership points in 2013/14 would be sufficient.

Fingers crossed we come out unscathed, but if players have taken banned substances, we have to cop it sweet. It's inexcusable.

[FC Melbourne 108]

Those hoping for the book to be thrown at Essendon better be careful what they wish for.

I've heard a whisper our supplements program could prove to be an 'unabated' disaster.......

[jazza 1,323]

Those hoping for the book to be thrown at Essendon better be careful what they wish for.

I've heard a whisper our supplements program could prove to be an 'unabated' disaster.......

well if it is , bad luck

pay the penalty and get on with it

if there is ever a time to admit wrong its NOW

[Sir Why You Little 37,134]

If MFC players are found to have done the same as Essendrug players then we cop the same bans.

After the "Tanking" strategy and absolute failure would our board be that naive?

[FC Melbourne 108]

If MFC players are found to have done the same as Essendrug players then we cop the same bans.

After the "Tanking" strategy and absolute failure would our board be that naive?

What if the board and the majority of the FD had no idea what was going on?

[Ungarie boy 233]

Posted in the comments of one of the news sites

"Regardless of the blame, Essendon should be stripped/banned of premiership points this year. Accidental or not, they have received an unfair advantage which can not be tolerated (the AFL have in the past came down very hard on a 19th player being on the field even if only for seconds and not impacting the game result). Precedence has already been set for this in the NRL and Spanish Soccer with penalties issued meaning teams played out the season with no chance of winning a premiership. Lastly, but not least, how would this be viewed in relation to gambling regulations, where illegal drugs may have influenced an outcome/result.

NOTE: though the drugs may now be out of the players system, there is still the residual advantage they gained last year by developing more mature bodies quicker, or recovering from injuries outside of normal expectations; as well as, and coupled with, the benefits gained from an improved preseason (including fitness base and ability to spend more time on skills), that even if minor, is still unfair to the rest of the comp. In upholding fairness in competition and a level playing field the AFL must act quickly; and for the players they have a right to know where they stand rather than working through the season and then having it taken away from them at the end. If I was a player, knowing that the club would likely be stripped of or prevented to earn premiership points, I would seek a deal that meant I missed this season and perhaps next year’s pre-season so that I can play (for real) next year!"

[daisycutter 29,743]

had a son go through the system.

he was taught by his father not to take anything but always check with our family doctor, hmmm maybe thats why he never made the next step??

i cant believe these young men were stupid enough to fall for the old trick that the club doctor said its fine everybody does this.

i would foot my son up the clacker if he was that niave,somebody within the team and fd has to be shown as incompetent, and given the full sentence deserved.

interesting.

in hird's case his family doctor was the club doctor. didn't do him any good assuming doc reid knew what he took

i presume he did as it was on the waiver forms signed by players. can't believe reid never saw waivers even if he was bypassed for supplement program

if reid as club doc wasn't shown waivers then someone is in big trouble too

[hardtack 10,627]

Those hoping for the book to be thrown at Essendon better be careful what they wish for.

I've heard a whisper our supplements program could prove to be an 'unabated' disaster.......

If only I had a dollar for every "whisper" that's been heard on this forum! ;-)

Edited May 1, 2013 by hardtack

[Sir Why You Little 37,134]

What if the board and the majority of the FD had no idea what was going on?

Mate. Ignorance is no excuse. If that is the case the Board chose very badly when it employed Bates.

I get the feeling Bates ran his own shop. The only thing that will save us imo is the fact that Essendon called that press conference when it did. Another couples of weeks and we may well have been in the gun seriously.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

We simply don't know a great deal about the Danks/Bates involvement with Melbourne players but on what we've been led to understand to date, the only suggestion of any improper practice is that Jack Trengove was prescribed a cream containing a banned substance AOD-9604. Assuming he did buy it and used it, then he would appear to be in trouble.

Brukner, who is a medical practitioner and not a lawyer, argues in the Age article mentioned above, that none of the "outs" provided for in the rules would help the Essendon players (and by extension Trengove if he took the cream) obtain a better result than a 6 month suspension. On the other hand, a sports solicitor quoted in this Herald Sun article presents a different view based partly on a mysterious letter which Stephen Dank apparently showed Essendon club doctor Bruce Reid and Dr. Bates at Melbourne. Trouble is that only Dank has a copy and there's a fair bit of mystery about the letter including who wrote it and what it means. If the letter came from a drug company and not WADA or ASADA as claimed at various times, the lawyer's claim appears to be a weak one. However, the clauses in the WADA Code are always open to interpretation and, when the time comes, will no doubt be attacked by the lawyers for the players.

What Buckner said is consistent with what Richard Inge (ex ASADA head), Doc Larkins and other public medicos have said. I am not sure him not being a lawyer is any disadvantage here. The only difference is that I had understood from Inge and others is that the penalty is an automatic 2 years that could be reduced to as low as 6 months if the "guilty" party is prepared to out further offenders. In this case I think ASADA have the pool of potential offenders. It's a matter of whether they did or did not take a banned substance. The consistent line is that the player is responsible for what goes into his body......period.

The mitigant of being defrauded or duped has not been tested and while it should not be dismissed at this point, there has been few if any outs on the ban. It should not be relied upon.

However this issue of the existence or non existence of the letter is another issue in this debacle. It's just extraordinary that Essendon seek to rely on the authenticity of a letter that they can not validate not do they have a copy. Surely the Switzkowski report will out this issue. Guilty or not, heads should roll big time at Essendon.

And at this stage Hird is not out of the gun. If the players have taken banned substances then he finished regardless of the W/L record or his standing amongst supporters.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

What if the board and the majority of the FD had no idea what was going on?

They're incompetent over the most important aspect of a club.......player welfare.

Ignorance is not an excuse in this case.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

interesting.

in hird's case his family doctor was the club doctor. didn't do him any good assuming doc reid knew what he took

i presume he did as it was on the waiver forms signed by players. can't believe reid never saw waivers even if he was bypassed for supplement program

if reid as club doc wasn't shown waivers then someone is in big trouble too

This is just one aspect that has the Golden boy in the gun.

[Cards13 9,117]

had a son go through the system.

he was taught by his father not to take anything but always check with our family doctor, hmmm maybe thats why he never made the next step??

i cant believe these young men were stupid enough to fall for the old trick that the club doctor said its fine everybody does this.

i would foot my son up the clacker if he was that niave,somebody within the team and fd has to be shown as incompetent, and given the full sentence deserved.

And further to that what a joke blaming the doctor because he showed them some dodgy letter. WADA have denied providing any letter so lets say there was one Dank was flashing around. It makes not a scintilla of difference that he may have misled the club, just as the players are responsible for their choice of doctor so is the club. If he is a quack then it is on their head not his. Oh and of course a copy was not kept, you wouldn't bother to keep a copy would you given the implications of half your team taking a banned substance.

If a/the club Doc did see the letter I would hope he/the club would have verified the veracity of the letter. That goes back to the governance or lack of governance at Essendon and MFC and I don't think they have a leg to stand on at this stage, but what would I know.