The Problem is Andrew Demetriou

[Webber 10,538]

"Bringing the Game into Disrepute".

This singular sentence, a vaguery of the most ill defined kind, is starting to carry with it the threat of an axe to the head, as wielded by a worryingly control obsessed Andrew Demetriou.

The most recent Fairfax revelations, about Dr.Dan Bates at the MFC, and "Dr.Ageless" this morning, are making the picture clearer for us, where the AFL have only to this stage been grandstanding with their murky threats and fingerpointing.

It seems the following points are becoming known:

*There is no evidence that any players at EFC or MFC, or James Hird have taken or been given any illegal or banned substances

*Any dealings they had with Stephen Dank were for the provision of ASADA approved supplements.

This being the case, Demetriou is trying, desperately it seems, to create the notion of wrongdoing, unfairness, or criminality at worst, where there just isn't any PROPER legal basis for such. With his beloved "bringing the game into disrepute" mantra, it seems he is giving himself carte blanche to go hunting whomever and wherever he pleases.

In this case it will be guilt by association. If, as Dr. Ageless in The Age today suggests, Stephen Dank has been involved in criminal behaviour, it DOES NOT mean that anybody at the Dees or Bombers knew this. In Demetriou's mind I suspect THAT will not matter, and he will not need proof of this to start wielding his disrepute axe.

We have seen it already with the tanking disgrace, and I mean the disgrace is all his. The MFC had a staff member suspended and were fined $500,000 for uttering the truth that there was advantage to the club to be gained via the priority pick. The policy put in place BY THE AFL to create an incentive to finish last. It was ruled by Demetriou's management that this must not be admitted by ANYONE, ANYWHERE despite everyone knowing it to be the case. We admitted it, and the disrepute axe fell.

Under Andrew Demetriou's tenure, the AFL is quickly becoming accountable only to his God complex driven ideas of how clubs and individuals should behave, and the further this moves outside solid and provable legal boundaries and into his self created notions of ethics, or governance, or propriety or whatever other non specific catch all term he wants to use next, the more this sport is going to be riven by media scandal, second guessing and blame attribution where there isn't any.

[whatwhat say what 22,949]

disagree.

vlad is the best ceo the game has ever had.

[footywidow 7]

TBH, I think he's been pretty fair. Melbourne lied to him about their involvement with Dank. They were probably giving their players substances which haven't been approved for humans use. I think that is bringing the game into disrepute.

Edited April 19, 2013 by footywidow

[The heart beats true 18,145]

While I liked to believe that we are handling ourselves perfectly through this time....

LITERALLY EVERYTHING WE"VE DONE SINCE 2007 WOULD LEAD ME TO BELIEVE OTHERWISE.

The AFL has a right to protect it's game, and right now the game needs protecting from us.

[Mr Steve 3,820]

This club has dug it's own hole.

[Webber 10,538]

I'm not suggesting the club hasn't been mismanaged and badly run. It has. But any suggestion the supplements were illegal is heresay, and being revealed to be such by Fairfax. If MFC and EFC have taken nothing illegal, and didn't know of any criminal associations of Stephen Dank, where is the LEGAL transgression?

[pitmaster 3,580]

TBH, I think he's been pretty fair. Melbourne lied to him about their involvement with Dank. T

You need to catch up with developments.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Demetriou has protected the competition in relation to keeping all the clubs solvent, but his agenda can be somewhat skewed.

I suppose that poor management makes the club a real target.

Edited April 19, 2013 by jumbo returns

[DeeZee 7,445]

I dont like the way he has threatened sanctions to us , because of a TV report but seems to have gone soft on the Bombers.

I also dont like the fact that Melbourne payers were named and shamed, and to date we have not one Essendon players name.

[Hannibal 5,814]

If supporters believe that Bates acted completely alone and that no other employee/s had any knowledge of his dealings with Dank they believe in garden fairies.

Even the club interviewing Bates three times since the Essendon story broke hints at their concerns. They haven't denied they knew Dank was in communication with Bates, only that Dank wasn't an employee. Yet they weren't forthcoming with that information to the AFL even when they were quizzed directly about Dank.

Does anyone think that once this story broke the players themselves haven't had concerns ? They would have been thinking, "what the hell was I being injected with when I went to that clinic ?" Does anyone think that not one player would have raised those concerns with the footy department and sports science division on the back of the unprecedented furore surrounding Essendon ? Yet the club still tried to sweep it under the carpet ?

For the club to not act in a fully transparent manner to the AFL, its members and own players on the back of arguably the biggest footy story and investigation in the games history was disingenuous and inept. McLardy's position is untenable. And I'd be surprised if some in the FD also aren't held to account.

I can't disagree with anyone that says this club stands for nothing. They make decisions on the run.

[markc 975]

Ben,

that's a pretty damming statement there,

not that I want you to answer but I am guess with that , you saw all 3 of these

my faith, like many in our club is starting to disappear .

thanks

mark

.

Even the club interviewing Bates three times since the Essendon story broke hints at their concerns. T

[Hannibal 5,814]

Ben,

that's a pretty damming statement there,

not that I want you to answer but I am guess with that , you saw all 3 of these

my faith, like many in our club is starting to disappear .

thanks

mark

That's why I said "hints" Mark.

Why wouldn't one, or maybe two interviews with your club Doctor be enough ? Especially if you were fully satisfied with his protocols.

And asked a direct question as to whether he'd been dealing with Dank do you think it's likely that your club Doctor would lie to your face ? It's possible, but I highly doubt a club Doctor would lie on such matters. It's easy to smear Bates now that he's been stood down and it would certainly be self-serving to those that would rather close their eyes and put their hands over their ears, but it doesn't make sense to me.

If you don't have strong doubts too, Mark, as to what the Board actually knew I'd be surprised.

[Webber 10,538]

The issue is STILL that if the players took or were given NOTHING illegal or banned, there is no transgression within the laws of either the competition or sport in this country. It is looking more like the implication of association that is the 'crime' rather than any legal wrongdoing. Bates texts to and from Dank show NOTHING improper in respect to the supplements, in fact quite the opposite. Demetriou is barking on about non disclosure, but where does non disclosure of behaviour that is not improper become the business of anyone outside the club? Sure, they/ Bates should have been upfront when asked, but given he/ the club broke no laws, then they have no case to answer, association with Dank or otherwise.

Demetriou is overstepping...

[Dr. Gonzo 24,305]

It seems the following points are becoming known:

*There is no evidence that any players at EFC or MFC, or James Hird have taken or been given any illegal or banned substances

*Any dealings they had with Stephen Dank were for the provision of ASADA approved supplements.

But any suggestion the supplements were illegal is heresay, and being revealed to be such by Fairfax. If MFC and EFC have taken nothing illegal, and didn't know of any criminal associations of Stephen Dank, where is the LEGAL transgression?

They may not have been specifically "banned" substances but that doesn't mean they were "approved" - there is a 3rd category "yet to be approved".

[Hannibal 5,814]

The issue is STILL that if the players took or were given NOTHING illegal or banned, there is no transgression within the laws of either the competition or sport in this country. It is looking more like the implication of association that is the 'crime' rather than any legal wrongdoing. Bates texts to and from Dank show NOTHING improper in respect to the supplements, in fact quite the opposite. Demetriou is barking on about non disclosure, but where does non disclosure of behaviour that is not improper become the business of anyone outside the club? Sure, they/ Bates should have been upfront when asked, but given he/ the club broke no laws, then they have no case to answer, association with Dank or otherwise.

Demetriou is overstepping...

What about their duty of care to their own players once this sordid mess came to light ?

What about their duty of care to the parents of these players, some of whom are very young ?

Once it became clear that Essendon couldn't categorically state what their players were injected with 2 months ago, hence their decision to ask to be investigated by ASADA, don't you think that the MFC should have taken the same measures ? At this point Dank wasn't looking like the cleanest skin, was he ? Some of these substances have yet to be tested for humans.

I'm not saying that the club has done anything "illegal", what I am saying is that our club is being run by incompetent sloths.

[markc 975]

If you don't have strong doubts too, Mark, as to what the Board actually knew I'd be surprised.

nothing surprises me at the moment , but that's not the problem

the major problem is how do we fix it , how do we fix the melbourne football club ?

[Footynut 302]

What about their duty of care to their own players once this sordid mess came to light ?

What about their duty of care to the parents of these players, some of whom are very young ?

Once it became clear that Essendon couldn't categorically state what their players were injected with 2 months ago, hence their decision to ask to be investigated by ASADA, don't you think that the MFC should have taken the same measures ? At this point Dank wasn't looking like the cleanest skin, was he ? Some of these substances have yet to be tested for humans.

I'm not saying that the club has done anything "illegal", what I am saying is that our club is being run by incompetent sloths.

I agree Ben and in addition Andrew D has the right to protect the competition.

Although it may be nothing or it may be something reality is he is mitigating risk to the game (which is clear he should as CEO and he is dealing with MFC who has history of not acting with integrity).

He needs to ensure that if all goes pear shaped he has been detailed and thorough in his dealings with clubs so the AFL isn't also seen to be covering up.

I don't blame him at all for his comments and in fact as a MFC member I want the same as him.

I want an independent investigation and I want the club sorted once and for all.

This lurching from crisis to crisis is unacceptable and frankly the club needs to find rock bottom (however far further we have to fall) quickly so we can begin to rebuild foundations of transparency and integrity in a manner that we as supporters are proud to be a part of a great club.

[Footynut 302]

nothing surprises me at the moment , but that's not the problem

the major problem is how do we fix it , how do we fix the melbourne football club ?

Unfortunately the club seems unable on any level to fix this itself and in addition doesn't seem to embrace help. In addition the club does not seem to be self aware and honest with itself internally.

I would think that either 2 things need to happen.

Either the AFL gets involved in cleansing the club more than just P Jackson or Melbourne Football Club supporters need to band together and cause change at the club by presenting a united front at the next AGM.

This cannot be allowed to continue. If any company in the real world had these continuing issues the company would be out of business by now and the entire board and CEO would have been removed for the good of the company.

[3183 Dee 2,907]

I'm not saying that the club has done anything "illegal", what I am saying is that our club is being run by incompetent sloths.

This is the crux of the problem, isn't it? In some ways, the subject matter is irrelevant - it's the amateur way our administration has dealt with all our off-field issues and I agree with whoever said it goes back to 2007. It started with the belief that by simply drafting the best young talent through getting top draft picks, our on-field success would take care of itself. We'd sacrifice a season or two for greater returns. Well - that bit us royally on the arse and we're still paying for it now. Since then we've lurched from fire fighting one disaster to another with an administration that was more concerned with building a brand as the originator of the game, where it all came from etc. New logo, new red and blueprint, new blazers, new deal with the MCC. It was papering over the cracks - on the field we were [censored] and our development of this exciting new talent we'd fought so hard to lose for was useless.

The only area the admin succeeded, thanks to Jimmy, was clearing the debt. Call round some of the old boys to dig into their pockets, chaps.

Meanwhile clubs like Collingwood, Richmond and Hawthorn (yes, I know they secured early picks as well) have grafted and tried successfully to build their clubs up.

Success is going to be a long time coming to our club but, when it does it'll be because we run an open, honest and tough entity and not one that runs itself as a piece of historical curiosity that has a divine right to be here and relies on handouts to exist. Honestly, it's like the last days of the British aristocracy.

If we were the first club, we should be damn well showing the example.

[Webber 10,538]

What about their duty of care to their own players once this sordid mess came to light ?

What about their duty of care to the parents of these players, some of whom are very young ?

Once it became clear that Essendon couldn't categorically state what their players were injected with 2 months ago, hence their decision to ask to be investigated by ASADA, don't you think that the MFC should have taken the same measures ? At this point Dank wasn't looking like the cleanest skin, was he ? Some of these substances have yet to be tested for humans.

I'm not saying that the club has done anything "illegal", what I am saying is that our club is being run by incompetent sloths.

What makes you think the players didn't know what they were being injected with? How much specific pharmaceutical information is enough. These are debatable points, and Demetriou seems to do decide as he goes along what is acceptable and what isn't. He keeps moving the goalposts, then points blame.

[Hannibal 5,814]

What makes you think the players didn't know what they were being injected with? How much specific pharmaceutical information is enough. These are debatable points, and Demetriou seems to do decide as he goes along what is acceptable and what isn't. He keeps moving the goalposts, then points blame.

Essendon admitted that they couldn't be certain of what Dank was injecting them with, which is why they called for an investigation. If Essendon couldn't be certain two months ago and we were also following Dank's program then how could we ?

Funny how we stopped using Dank at the same time this came out in February.

But let's assume everything is above board. It doesn't change our inept behaviour when the sporting world's spotlight was on Dank and Essendon. Did they really think it would never get out ? Their incompetence is beyond belief.

[old55 23,707]

The statement from the club that there are no concerns about supplements was entirely predicated on the management of the program by Bates - who is now stood down. Before that McLardy was saying no changes to personnel contemplated, next day Schwab is sacked. I can't believe anything coming from the club.

[Slartibartfast 17,635]

I agree Ben and in addition Andrew D has the right to protect the competition.

This lurching from crisis to crisis is unacceptable and frankly the club needs to find rock bottom (however far further we have to fall) quickly so we can begin to rebuild foundations of transparency and integrity in a manner that we as supporters are proud to be a part of a great club.

The members have tried for decades to elect good Boards but we've really not had one that's excelled.

I'd ask the AFL to professionally administer the Club or recommend Board members. How on earth are we to know what Geoff Freeman will be like? We can't know and those that have elevated him are proving themselves to be less than acceptable.

Sadly I'd expect many to think they should have a say. Well I'd say so far our collective efforts have been abysmal and I want something better.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Baghdad Bob

[stuie 7,374]

So does "corporate governance" only extend to Don because some here don't rate him, or is Demitriou exempt because he's not part of the MFC so many here love bringing down?

[Webber 10,538]

Essendon admitted that they couldn't be certain of what Dank was injecting them with, which is why they called for an investigation. If Essendon couldn't be certain two months ago and we were also following Dank's program then how could we ?

Funny how we stopped using Dank at the same time this came out in February.

But let's assume everything is above board. It doesn't change our inept behaviour when the sporting world's spotlight was on Dank and Essendon. Did they really think it would never get out ? Their incompetence is beyond belief.

Actually I was referring to MFC players. Clearly there is a duty of care issue at the Bombers in respect to players not knowing what they were getting, but it is presumptuous to fit the same thing to the Dees. We know that Bates was arranging the whole thing, and as much as his non disclosure is an issue for which he has paid the price, why do we imagine he wasn't telling the players? Again, it's apportioning blame via presumption and heresay.

Also, the fact that the world's spotlight ( meaning the media who would sell their grandmother for scandal) is on Dank, does NOT mean the MFC have transgressed in ANY way. Bates has, but only by non disclosure, and it is further scandal mongering to assume any other wrongdoing.

The media drive this stuff, and Demetriou has become a slave to it.....too much so IMO