I know this has been done to death, but watching the Tiges v Blues replay this morning, I found myself getting very envious of Richmond's midfield.

Cotchin, Deledio, Martin etc are dominant midfielders. Quite simply, they look the part.

I then found myself thinking, how the hell is Richmond's midfield so much better than ours, given that we were rebuilding during the same period and given that we were also focussed on recruiting quality mids.

In this regard, it's widely commented that we have the worst midfield - without doubt, Tapscott, Gysberts, Scully, Morton and Bennell haven't/didn't come on quite as expected. However, I'm not sure that we actually have the worst midfield.

Looking to the future - we have Viney and Toumpas, both of whom I have absolutely no doubt will be dominant mids in due course. Trengove has it in him to be elite, despite a disappointing season last year. Grimes and Jones are solid. McKenzie is a bloody good tagger. And the likes of Matt Jones and Dean Kent could prove to be really good quality pick ups.

Add to that Blease, Howe, Evans, Sylvia and, in future, Dom Barry - and it's not looking that bad. For the future, that is.

As an aside, despite having the worst forward line in the history of the AFL last year, I now think we have a bloody good forward line. And I have no real concerns about our backline - ironic really, given that in the early 2000s this was always our achilles heel.

It's just our midfield - and, thinking it through, it's not actually that bad.

Interested in people's views. Am I dreaming/totally delusional?

I agree that Richmond's midfield looks great. Shane tuck has lifted, if Sylvia could do this for us it would help our cause.

I can't see our players being at the same level for a few years though they all seem to hit the scorecard, Sylvia and jones are the only mids that I see being goal kickers for us at the moment

Viney and Toumpas will lift our fortunes if they can show something this year

hopefully on sunday !

I think it never will be elite unless:

Jones, Trengove, Viney Toumpas, Sylvia and Grimes etc. become stars (doubt it)

Then we are able to find a couple gems in rough: Blease Taggert, Kent, Jetta, Tapscott, Barry etc

And we use the free agency to secure 1-2 stars (a murphy or dangerfield would completely change our midfield)

I think if we want this current midfield group to become elite we need to use free agency not the draft because we need to have a realistic window of success.

I think it won't be bad relatively soon. However, I don't see Tapscott as a midfielder and I see Barry as your quick forward with plenty of tricks, perhaps in tandem with Blease. I think Blease may be a player who takes a run on the ball but not your genuine mid per se. I think Sam will be a star though. Trengove - I think we'll get a better picture of him by mid year.

I wouldn't be relying on Kent or Jones but rather, hope they'll be pleasant surprises. I'd love an Andrew Swallow in with Jimmy and Jack, or basically 3 great mids.

Beat me to the punch Young Dee. Pretty much the same thing - so of course Im going to like it! Think the Sylvia being a star bit is wishful

Beat me to the punch Young Dee. Pretty much the same thing - so of course Im going to like it! Think the Sylvia being a star bit is wishful

Wishful/hopeful maybe but so are all the others, a lot on here see Sylvia as having the most potential to be a star - just lacks effort

Has the strength to match any midfielder, has speed, endurance and a beautiful kick (probably underrated on here) - a mid who can kick goals!

I've noticed Neeld has talked Sylvia up a bit in the pre-season, and he doesn't make a habit of doing that with players.

Well really, all you've done is said the same that many said about our 'up and coming' midfield of a few years ago.

If you, (as all of us) have witnessed certain players in the past not developing, how can you be so sure viney and toumpas will?

I sure hope they do but I don't know how you can say you have 'no doubt' that they will become dominant a mids when our past crop have proven otherwise.

I wouldn't over sell Richmond's midfield. I think Cotchin is a star, Martin has the tricks to be but is not yet and Delidio is more a floater with a great foot a bit like Goddard and what Watts will probably end up for us. Other than that they fall away pretty quickly with Jackson, Tuck (real goer but not quality) and co and really miss the pace of Foley.

Once Maric tired in the 3rd, Kruezer started to jump over him and Carltons mids and runners came into the game.

As far as we go I think we will step up a bit this year.I know we don't want to push expectations on Viney but there is no reason he can't do what Toby Green did with GWS last season so that's a big plus. Grimes with a second full season will be a big improver and Trengove will give us more. Another good mid or 2 in the next draft, game time for Toumpas and a quality free agent and we will be set.

I don't see us getting much more out of Silvia because I don't think he has the potential to be a star, never have. He has always lacked important parts of his game. Having said that without Moloney (was never good having 2 dumb footballers in the same team) he will give us something and has the ability to be a match winner at times just not an outright star. He will always tease.

Toumpas and Viney will need about 50 games to feel really at home, unlike Selwood, they don't have Bartel, Ablett etc to guide them and let them develop, we have Jones........

Well really, all you've done is said the same that many said about our 'up and coming' midfield of a few years ago.

If you, (as all of us) have witnessed certain players in the past not developing, how can you be so sure viney and toumpas will?

I sure hope they do but I don't know how you can say you have 'no doubt' that they will become dominant a mids when our past crop have proven otherwise.

I think Toumpas will, he already has runs on the board as a senior player. He will take a little bit of time and will frustrate supporters early I think if they expect big things from the start. He has the skills and the attitude to get there.

Viney I would be certain of, the kid is a tough unit both mentally and physically. The word from a local trainer was that he is the toughest person he had ever trained and he was training AFL premiership players at the time. We're not talking Morton, Bennell or Cook here.

I would be very surprised if he didn't have an immediate impact.

But life is fickle so no one can certain, who knows what will happen but on the evidence these 2 look pretty good chances to me and it looks as though FD is better placed to develop players these days. Lets wait and see.

I wouldn't over sell Richmond's midfield. I think Cotchin is a star, Martin has the tricks to be but is not yet and Delidio is more a floater with a great foot a bit like Goddard and what Watts will probably end up for us. Other than that they fall away pretty quickly with Jackson, Tuck (real goer but not quality) and co and really miss the pace of Foley.

Once Maric tired in the 3rd, Kruezer started to jump over him and Carltons mids and runners came into the game.

As far as we go I think we will step up a bit this year.I know we don't want to push expectations on Viney but there is no reason he can't do what Toby Green did with GWS last season so that's a big plus. Grimes with a second full season will be a big improver and Trengove will give us more. Another good mid or 2 in the next draft, game time for Toumpas and a quality free agent and we will be set.

I don't see us getting much more out of Silvia because I don't think he has the potential to be a star, never have. He has always lacked important parts of his game. Having said that without Moloney (was never good having 2 dumb footballers in the same team) he will give us something and has the ability to be a match winner at times just not an outright star. He will always tease.

Richmond killed Carlton mids last night.

Richmond killed Carlton mids last night.

Brock McLean would. have been better watching from home.

Saw him get one handball.

Richmond killed Carlton mids last night.

...they did early but it was Judd and Gibbs (BOG for mine) with Kruezer that got Carlton back into the game. Mclean came into the game as it slowed down, what a surprise. So no Richmond didn't kill the Carlton mids at all, Carlton's forwards killed Carlton with the help of a lack lustre defence and some strange positional moves by Mick.

Another thing on last night, the decision for Cotchin to take the last 2 kick outs was nearly a disaster. Did he take it on himself as the on field leader or was it the coach, he needed to be at the fall of the ball.

Trengove, Viney ,Toumpas,Jones,Sylvia and Gawn all have the potential to be elite.

Jetta, Tapscott,Blease, Watts and others may run through there.

It's not all as bad as the critics suggest.

It's just a matter of time - Morton, Scully, McLean and Sylvia are all elite talents and top 5 draft picks and they just need to develop

Oh Sorry I just had a flashback

I'm sure that it will be a different story for Viney, Toumpas, Trengove etc

I like how this thread combines the whole drafting/developing, our midfield sucks, Sylvia is due, and who is "elite" threads that have already been done a billion times....

I like how this thread combines the whole drafting/developing, our midfield sucks, Sylvia is due, and who is "elite" threads that have already been done a billion times....

Yeah well last night's match hammered it home for me too - most of the best 10 players on the ground were high-draft-pick players who have clearly become the developed product they were supposed to become when they were drafted. Why the F does this not happen at Melbourne? It's highly infuriating for me.

"Melbourne" & "elite midfield", lol.

Not for some time, the boys need to become men first, they need to play 4 quarters, they need to start influencing and dictating games, taking control and not fading out, all this and more must happen before being considered elite... That's my thinking anyway.

Yeah well last night's match hammered it home for me too - most of the best 10 players on the ground were high-draft-pick players who have clearly become the developed product they were supposed to become when they were drafted. Why the F does this not happen at Melbourne? It's highly infuriating for me.

That's the million thread question C&B...

"Melbourne" & "elite midfield", lol.

Not for some time, the boys need to become men first, they need to play 4 quarters, they need to start influencing and dictating games, taking control and not fading out, all this and more must happen before being considered elite... That's my thinking anyway.

You forgot talent, they need a heap more talent too... It seems like we've got mostly hard workers now, which is great. but they need to have talent and skill as well.

If we can't develop Toumpas Into an elite player we should chuck it in. He has quality coming out his ears.

If we can't develop Toumpas Into an elite player we should chuck it in. He has quality coming out his ears.

Sadly we have heard this to many times......Morton, Scully, Trengove, Mclean, Gysberts etc. (all where said to be definite stars)

It's disheartening.

All I could think was we'd have been blown away by those two middle of the road teams last night. And it all starts in the middle of the ground.

No use having Mitch and Dawes if it hardly gets down there.

I was convinced Scully would be great, he's rubbish. I really hope Viney lives up to the high expectations, I hope he gets more BOGs than he gets KO'd, these are some huge bodies he'll be throwing himself at.

I'm sure Toumpas is the goods, I'm not so sure we have ball getters and structures to utilize his weapons.

Jones has improved out of sight, but in any other team he'd be the soldier that compliments the star mid, not the main man.

I've gone cold on Trengove. Not enough tricks, no explosive power, no deadly boot. He's a good mark for his size and a young leader, I want more from a #2 pick. The keeping your feet rule will work in his favour though.

I'm confident Blease will be a gun, but again do we have the other blokes to get out to him and keep him busy every week? Not yet.

Sylvia. The reason I'm so skeptical.

Apart from Judd, there was no one out there last night that has played a better game than Sylvia did against Hawthorn about four years ago. Yet still we wait for another glimpse of that talent. Over it.

It'd help if we had a better ruckman that gets us moving. Jamar's taps are infuriating, they just roll down his arm and land at his feet. Just hit it anywhere at least, give us some mystery.

It'll be another tough year, or two.

Having said that, I believe we have a team that can beat Port at the G.