NAB CUP 3: ST. KILDA

[Sir Why You Little 37,136]

Out of those still with us, who would you get rid of that played that day?

i knew that was going to be your next question.

I have a few in mind but won't name them at this point. As i said i have faith in Neeld as a coach.

If he can turn them around, great.

But any recurrance of last years form and i will not be renewing membership until all 22 of the 186 team is gone.

Why? Because they cannot be 100% trusted to do the job when the game gets hot.

Damaged goods.

[stuie 7,374]

i knew that was going to be your next question.

I have a few in mind but won't name them at this point. As i said i have faith in Neeld as a coach.

If he can turn them around, great.

But any recurrance of last years form and i will not be renewing membership until all 22 of the 186 team is gone.

Why? Because they cannot be 100% trusted to do the job when the game gets hot.

Damaged goods.

Out of the 13 players who played that day that are still on our list, 5 are in the leadership group that Neeld (pretty much) selected.

[Sir Why You Little 37,136]

Out of the 13 players who played that day that are still on our list, 5 are in the leadership group that Neeld (pretty much) selected.

good he has given them a chance.

It's a big call though.

[stuie 7,374]

good he has given them a chance.

It's a big call though.

It was 6 in 2012 when Jamar was in the leadership group. To me that shows Neeld's not concerned with the past which is a good move IMO. Create a new culture rather than try and fix the old one which was obviously terrible.

[Sir Why You Little 37,136]

It was 6 in 2012 when Jamar was in the leadership group. To me that shows Neeld's not concerned with the past which is a good move IMO. Create a new culture rather than try and fix the old one which was obviously terrible.

Yes the "old" culture is what it is i agree.

That is exactly why more players will be culled at years end.

It couldn't all be done in one year.

[stuie 7,374]

Yes the "old" culture is what it is i agree.

That is exactly why more players will be culled at years end.

It couldn't all be done in one year.

I don't think Neeld should give up on players as easily as that though, especially talented ones. Eventually he needs to be able to manage these guys into a new culture, that's his job.

[Sir Why You Little 37,136]

I don't think Neeld should give up on players as easily as that though, especially talented ones. Eventually he needs to be able to manage these guys into a new culture, that's his job.

It will all depend on what the players DO. Talk is cheap.

I am sure Neeld wants them to succeed, but can they when decision making must be instinctive?

It is what happened on Saturday in the second quarter. The team was not instinctive for around 10 minutes and got absolutely smashed.

It happens to often with this team.

Can it be rectified with this list of players who were there in 2011?

I won't say no. But i am worried.

[dpositive 1,698]

I don't think Neeld should give up on players as easily as that though, especially talented ones. Eventually he needs to be able to manage these guys into a new culture, that's his job.

i dont always agree with everything you say stuie but I reckon you are correct here.

It is the coaches job to manage the resources. ("these guys").

I have always said managers (coaches) have to mange the difficult things not just the easy things. Its the hardest part of managing which is in simplest terms getting things done through others. it is what we will judge Neeld on.

The culture is an even far more complex matter which I am still not sure has been publicly identified defined and established, and as I have maintained involves all stakeholders including players coaches administrators and us as supporters.

I am just hoping that the team will display improvement and we as supporters will recognise and encourage that.

[stuie 7,374]

i dont always agree with everything you say stuie but I reckon you are correct here.

It is the coaches job to manage the resources. ("these guys").

I have always said managers (coaches) have to mange the difficult things not just the easy things. Its the hardest part of managing which is in simplest terms getting things done through others. it is what we will judge Neeld on.

The culture is an even far more complex matter which I am still not sure has been publicly identified defined and established, and as I have maintained involves all stakeholders including players coaches administrators and us as supporters.

I am just hoping that the team will display improvement and we as supporters will recognise and encourage that.

I don't think culture is something that is definable as such as they can "announce" it to us or show us a mission statement, but I believe it will flow on to us as supporters. The coach instills it in his staff, the coaches as a united group instill and reinforce it in the leadership group and players, the leadership group encourage it amongst the playing group, it eventually shows in our game performance and attitude, then we pick up on that as supporters and get on board. IMO that's how a culture is successfully changed and instilled in a wholistic way.

[dpositive 1,698]

I don't think culture is something that is definable as such as they can "announce" it to us or show us a mission statement, but I believe it will flow on to us as supporters. The coach instills it in his staff, the coaches as a united group instill and reinforce it in the leadership group and players, the leadership group encourage it amongst the playing group, it eventually shows in our game performance and attitude, then we pick up on that as supporters and get on board. IMO that's how a culture is successfully changed and instilled in a wholistic way.

Certainly not easy to define and I agree with your contention. It is encouraged and reinforced and adopted through all levels. I prefer that it is identified so that there is a clear and consistent adoption. that makes encouragement and reinforcement much more effective.

Looking forward to improved performance and attitude.

GO DEES

[jnrmac 20,189]

You've missed the point of the actual argument jnr. Had nothing to do with Moloney or 186 (of which Moloney of course shares blame), but WYL and others seem over obsessed with the whole 186 thing IMO and bring it up constantly in the wrong contexts.

Fair enough, FWIW I think unfortunately there is still bad blood from that game. Neeld has done his best clearing out the wood but its higher up the tree there remains issues.....

[stuie 7,374]

Fair enough, FWIW I think unfortunately there is still bad blood from that game. Neeld has done his best clearing out the wood but its higher up the tree there remains issues.....

If by "higher up the tree" you're talking about the board or CEO etc I don't buy into that. They effect the running of the club, but I don't believe they have any direct effect on the playing performance.

[Sir Why You Little 37,136]

If by "higher up the tree" you're talking about the board or CEO etc I don't buy into that. They effect the running of the club, but I don't believe they have any direct effect on the playing performance.

Then you are wrong.

[mjt 640]

If by "higher up the tree" you're talking about the board or CEO etc I don't buy into that. They effect the running of the club, but I don't believe they have any direct effect on the playing performance.

How would you know ?

[stuie 7,374]

How would you know ?

How would you know if they do? None of us know, hence why I said "I don't believe".

[stuie 7,374]

Then you are wrong.

Prove it WYL? Show me you're proof that admin effect player performance.

[old dee 23,872]

Can you tell talk to each other on PM

It is now well and truly boring and has nothing to do with this thread.

[Sir Why You Little 37,136]

Prove it WYL? Show me you're proof that admin effect player performance.

why? You wouldn't believe it anyway.

Bad blood is what it is. If we speak of good culture then all members of the club must pull in the same direction.

Its the first thing Jimmy changed when he took over the Presidency.

Harmony on & off the field IS paramount to creating success.

I went to many Thursday night Sausage Sizzles with a mate who was a demented Hawthorn supporter...The players knew all the board and vice versa. There was mutual respect.

I hated it, was envious. Some of it still lives 25-30 years later.

[stuie 7,374]

why? You wouldn't believe it anyway.

Bad blood is what it is. If we speak of good culture then all members of the club must pull in the same direction.

Its the first thing Jimmy changed when he took over the Presidency.

Harmony on & off the field IS paramount to creating success.

I went to many Thursday night Sausage Sizzles with a mate who was a demented Hawthorn supporter...The players knew all the board and vice versa. There was mutual respect.

I hated it, was envious. Some of it still lives 25-30 years later.

If you provide me with tangible proof I'll believe it. But all I ever hear from those bagging out our board/CEO is "because I said so" or "someone told me" and that's hearsay not proof.

[stuie 7,374]

Can you tell talk to each other on PM

It is now well and truly boring and has nothing to do with this thread.

Sorry OD. You could always just ignore this thread seeing the game is well and truly over?

[Sir Why You Little 37,136]

If you provide me with tangible proof I'll believe it. But all I ever hear from those bagging out our board/CEO is "because I said so" or "someone told me" and that's hearsay not proof.

49 years of being in the wilderness is enough proof.

I don't ned to prove anything to you Stuie.

The MFC is what it is in relation to other clubs.

Not good enough. On or off the park. Now steps have finally been taken to put us in the modern era, but the journey is in its infancy. There will be more pain.

[stuie 7,374]

49 years of being in the wilderness is enough proof.

I don't ned to prove anything to you Stuie.

The MFC is what it is in relation to other clubs.

Not good enough. On or off the park. Now steps have finally been taken to put us in the modern era, but the journey is in its infancy. There will be more pain.

Pretty sure the current board and CEO haven't been there for 49 years WYL.

[Sir Why You Little 37,136]

Pretty sure the current board and CEO haven't been there for 49 years WYL.

thanks for that piece of obviousness.

I love talking to a brick wall. Maybe one day some of this will seep into your skull Stuie. I hope it does for your sake.

Stop turning a blind eye....

[stuie 7,374]

thanks for that piece of obviousness.

I love talking to a brick wall. Maybe one day some of this will seep into your skull Stuie. I hope it does for your sake.

Stop turning a blind eye....

What am I turning a blind eye to WYL? We've had dozens of different admin groups since '64, how can it be the current one's fault we haven't had success in that time? Silly, silly stuff. Footy is played on the ground not in the boardroom. Ridiculous to not place the blame where it lays, with the coaches and players.

[Sir Why You Little 37,136]

What am I turning a blind eye to WYL? We've had dozens of different admin groups since '64, how can it be the current one's fault we haven't had success in that time? Silly, silly stuff. Footy is played on the ground not in the boardroom. Ridiculous to not place the blame where it lays, with the coaches and players.

you are so 2 Dimensional Stuie.

You do not look at the Big Picture.

The Board + The Players =THE CLUB

FGS understand this.