Caroline Wilson's descent into gutter journalism

[s-t-i-n-g-a 439]

i hope its after the draft otherwise you can kiss hogan and viney goodbye.

We have already drafted hogan and we can take Viney with our next available pick...so unless they take all our picks I don't see how we lose Viney...but pick 4 would be a big loss...

[Pates 9,660]

"He would have won an extra five or six games and had at least another year of coaching if he wasn't forced to do it."

That is the biggest joke I have heard in this whole saga. That HS article is [censored], nothing he said in that meeting says anything about tanking. Everything about it made perfect sense, I actually hope they use that as evidence as it works in our favour!

As for the "quote" from Bailey, that is 3rd hand. Down from Bailey to one player, and paraphrased by another. I also like that after we won two in a row we then amazingly lost to Geelong and Sydney, who would've thought huh?

Oh and since their using opposition teams as ammunition for proof of tanking, how many Melbourne players thought Carlton were out to win it in the Kruezer cup?

[MadAsHell 4,215]

In what can only be seen as a good sign on an interview with Mark Neeld on the club website yesterday he ,ade mention of Jack Viney being secured and having Pick 4 to use.

So obviously he feels that whatever happens won't effect our picks.

Don't even get me started on that [censored] Kennett's comments though!

[fuchsia 37]

-this is a quote from denham in the australian..

"However, should the Demons be found guilty of taking the field with the intent to lose the match, any draft penalties will almost certainly not apply to this year, as an outcome from the probe is not expected to be announced before the national draft on November 22."

it may or may not allay fears..for what its worth..

and this from patrick smith;-

AS the AFL investigators dig deep into the culture of tanking in the league - you would presume the inquiries would not start and end at Melbourne - there is another serious issue the AFL Commission must consider.

It was Demetriou who defended clubs the loudest and longest. Yesterday, he told The Australian his position on tanking had not changed. "I don't believe teams go on to the ground to lose matches. I simply don't," he said.

"A point of view that will give Melbourne comfort as its football department and executive are prodded and pulled by AFL investigators".

further quote;

Tanking is taking the field with the intent to lose the match. The broader and widely accepted definition is taking the field having made it impossible to win.

Yesterday, Demetriou said he simply rejected the broader definition of tanking. And would not even accept that moving players to the detriment of the team during a game was a tanking tactic. No, said Demetriou, that's experimentation or player development. Or whatever.

No wonder all investigations bar one by the AFL into tanking claims was shortlived and timid. It might be instructive that the AFL's only meaningful, whole-hearted examination of tanking claims (Brock McLean's infamous blind Freddy remark on Fox Footy) began when Demetriou was in London for the Olympic Games.

Demetriou may be MFC' s best ally;

Edited November 1, 2012 by Whispering_Jack

[MO FINE 171]

I have no doubt that Gardner regrets his decision to let the boys club get a foot in the door.

... but does he regret commenting to the media about the club tanking? For that matter, does he understand the incalculable damage done to the club by such comments from a former club president?

This is a great example of the mass hypnosis on Demonland that makes me look so biased.

Paul NcNamee: "We need a big, strong power forward who will straighten up the team. Someone in his mid 20s who will provide leadership for the next few years and who the punters will want to come and watch. What about that bloke from Brisbane? We should throw everything at him."

Demonland verdict: Moron

Current admin: "We need a big, strong power forward who will straighten up the team. Someone in his mid 20s who will provide leadership for the next few years and who the punters will want to come and watch. What about that bloke from Brisbane? We should throw everything at him."

Demonland verdict: Genius

This is what exposes you and your ilk for the rank hypocrites you are.

Last year, Schwab was excoriated by his critics for involving himself in football department matters and he has since taken that on board and lowered his profile considerably as a result. Yet you have no issue at all in the case of McNamee going over the football department's head and seeking out Jonathan Brown at a time when the club was broke and couldn't afford him and when his recruiting would have flown in the face of the club's then policy of recruiting youth. What McNamee did at the time was embarrassing and indicative of the sheer incompetence of the board that appointed him.

Three years later when the club had sorted out its finances, a football department decision was made to go after Mitch Clark. The guys went up to Brisbane and got their man - a fine example of the competence which you claim is lacking in the club at the moment. Indeed, it was a breathtaking achievement which the hacks who you support could never have dreamed of achieving.

Instead, people like you bang on and on attacking the club at this moment when it's under fire without even pretending to understand the damage you've done.

My verdict: HSOG = > hypocrite!

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I can't believe Caroline "The Vault" Wilson is still referring to the meeting as "the Vault" and not the room. If she can't even get basic facts right it makes you wonder about the rest of what she is saying.

It is interesting that she appears to have changed tack from "Melbourne did tank" to "Melbourne conspired to tank".

That Herald Sun article is hilarious when they claim a team with only a few wins being outraged when strategies are changed during the year.

[mjt 640]

MMM saying now it needs to be sorted out before the draft starts, were dying by a 1OOO cuts, eddie reckon it needs to be sorted before thr draft, were screwed.

I can't believe Caroline "The Vault" Wilson is still referring to the meeting as "the Vault" and not the room. If she can't even get basic facts right it makes you wonder about the rest of what she is saying.

It is interesting that she appears to have changed tack from "Melbourne did tank" to "Melbourne conspired to tank".

That Herald Sun article is hilarious when they claim a team with only a few wins being outraged when strategies are changed during the year.

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

I just read robbo's "Big story" in the HUN. Boy oh Boy Woweee! What a breaking story.

[Moonshadow 17,677]

Would like to know where CW is getting her stories from. Someone from within or an ex employee is talking to her. Unless someone from the investigation is taliking

[45HG 1,559]

"One version of events is that Connolly, in illustrating the importance of winning less than five games so as to gain Scully with a No. 1 draft pick, spoke of ''the cavalry'' riding over a hill and coming to get those coaches and football officials who allowed Melbourne to win too many games and therefore miss the priority pick.

Another version claimed Connolly surveyed the room of some 15 men - coach Bailey, his assistants, recruiters and other football staff - and told them that the consequences of missing the priority pick would be that they would all lose their jobs."

I'm sorry - but these two paragraphs are utterly hilarious. Especially the first one. She's got to be kidding around, surely. Cavalry comin' over the hill to get y'all! Dontchu dare win too may games boi. Ridiculous.

Her real motivation seems to appear in the penultimate paragraph.

And the best she has is some Sydney players and Richmond players unquoted opinions - gee whiz.

[beelzebub 23,383]

i knew that bub, just joshin ya...didn't you see the lol

obviously not .. am a little bit over this

[Jaded No More 68,974]

I'm surprised nobody is talking about Rivers and Garland playing forward this year and yelling TANKING!

FFS you can never prove that positional changes are an act of tanking, because for every dumb move, there is one equally genuine move that works. Or at the very least makes sense.

We scored our only legitimate win of the season when Garland was moved forward!

[Whispering_Jack 30,674]

One of the things that I enjoy about being at Melbourne functions is Chris Connolly's wry sense of humour. It doesn't come as a surprise to me therefore that he would have made the following comment after Melbourne beat Port Adelaide at the MCG in 2009:

Jimmy's just fallen out of his hospital bed.

Even Blind Freddie would know, given the ongoing discussion at the time about whether or not the club should tank experiment that this was a joke and nothing more: that his tongue was planted firmly in cheek when he commented about the cavalry and sacking people. Let's get real please!

But Caroline Wilson in today's Age takes it seriously enough to dedicate an entire article on his comments -

Jobs on line: Dees warned

I think it's really sad when people have no sense of humour. Hilarious when they use it to push someone else's agenda.

Meanwhile, the so called exposé in the little paper today confirms again that the club did not tell its players to tank. Instead, Dean Bailey informed them that the club would be experimenting with positions etc. for the remainder of a lost year.

"He said: 'Look, you blokes are going to get played out of position. We want to see what roles you guys can play because now in today's game you need to play a number of roles and we are building a list to go forward'.

Former Melbourne coach Dean Bailey told players to accept new 'strategy'

Of course, we all know exactly what was going on but at least Melbourne won three games after the change in strategy was applied. That's unlike Carlton in 2007 which lost its last eleven and Collingwood in 2005 and Melbourne in 2003 (when Paul Gardner was on the board and about to become chairman and we know how he wouldn't tolerate any thought of tanking).

I don't believe that Dean Bailey was a great coach, I don't think the club treated his dismissal well and I don't believe his comments immediately after were appropriate but it's becoming exceedingly clear that Dean treated the awkward situation which both he and the club were in at the time in exemplary fashion. He was straight with the players as they were with him.

From all this, it's also clear that although winning games was taking a back seat to the future of the club, there was no attempt to induce or coerce the players into going out to lose games which is how the AFL has time and time again gone out of its way to describe as the criteria for tanking.

If the AFL is going to retrospectively change the definition of tanking and move the goalposts it would be doing itself and the game a disservice.

The way to put an end to the unseemly witch hunt now going on against one club and some of its officials when at least half of the AFL's clubs have practiced the same strategies is to accept that the system it then had in place was flawed, it has now been changed to minimise tanking and to move on.

The flaw was that the AFL offered an incentive for tanking and idly sat by for more than a decade as club after club took advantage of that flawed system. It even gave the nod to Carlton's monumental effort in performing the "grand slam of tanking" in 2007 that culminated in the infamous Kreuzer Cup game.

Now, we've reached the stage where people are actually interpreting a clever joke as evidence of wrongdoing. And of course, its becoming patently clear that the media is being fed many of these scraps by former insiders with axes to grind who want to bring down certain individuals within one club because they bear a grudge against them. It's getting really filthy and abhorrent.

The AFL needs to act responsibly to end this farce.

[mjt 640]

CS and CC, Brian Waldron says come on down, theres no denying the evidence is building, there in huge trouble.

[DeeZee 7,445]

Is it possible we lose Hogan , as he cant be drafted till next year?

[Jonesbag 487]

Would like to know where CW is getting her stories from. Someone from within or an ex employee is talking to her. Unless someone from the investigation is taliking

Or shes just trying to put assume whats happening

[pantaloons 2,019]

Her real motivation seems to appear in the penultimate paragraph.

And the best she has is some Sydney players and Richmond players unquoted opinions - gee whiz.

Oh no! She's found the smoking gun! If Richmond and Sydney players think we've pulled a swifty, then that's all the evidence anyone needs! I wonder what these players told her? "Yeah, that team that won the spoon in 2009 was simply way too good for us and they had to resort to throwing the game to lose to us, such was our lack of ability."

Stay tuned for episode five of Caro's enthralling witch hunt tomorrow, where she uncovers more scandal and shocking evidence that Melbourne supporters in section M50 were delighted to secure a priority pick in 2009 as the undeniable evidence mounts.

[pantaloons 2,019]

Is it possible we lose Hogan , as he cant be drafted till next year?

He's already been taken in the mini draft, so he's as good as ours. There's as much chance of the AFL taking Mitch Clark off us, though I'm sure Caro has already suggested that to the AFL.

[Blinkybill 276]

Is it possible we lose Hogan , as he cant be drafted till next year?

Carlton lost two years worth of draft picks. We could lose pick 4, Viney and Hogan.

[7-UP 107]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/150657/default.aspx

this article drained any hope I have, how can we leave this mess without ant penalties

give me some hope fellow demonlanders

[warren dean 193]

I'm surprised nobody is talking about Rivers and Garland playing forward this year and yelling TANKING!

FFS you can never prove that positional changes are an act of tanking, because for every dumb move, there is one equally genuine move that works. Or at the very least makes sense.

We scored our only legitimate win of the season when Garland was moved forward!

Those of us old enough to remember the 1984 Grand Final will recall Sheedy winning the Bombers a flag by putting his backline forward - Duckworth and Weston virtually won the game for Bombers as forwards when they spent most of their careers as very good defenders. And you are right Jaded, this was when Sheedy was first hailed a genius. Blight often shifted players around - sometimes to great effect (Shane Ellen!!) As Martin Flanagan pointed out, we certainly didn't play any worse when Bailey made those moves against Richmond and we were in front at the final siren. People talk about Miller moving into the ruck in that game. I can recall quite often during 2004 - when for the majority of the year we were near the top of the ladder, Miller often relieved White for 5 or 10 minutes on the ball. I think we can easily justify the positional moves.

[DeeZee 7,445]

If we get found guilty, the best penalty we can hope for is something like a $500,000 fine and no first round draft picks for the next 2 years.

So then at least we still keep no.4 and we have Hogan and Viney,and we can keep developing our own team.

To lose premiership points,or picks this year would be soul destroying.

[pantaloons 2,019]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/150657/default.aspx

this article drained any hope I have, how can we leave this mess without ant penalties

give me some hope fellow demonlanders

It's like this:

Caro: Connolly told a joke about Jim Stynes Being annoyed we won a game, and staffers were told they'd lose their jobs if Melbourne won 5 games.

AFL site article: Melbourne blatantly tanked.

Caro's article tomorrow: Melbourne set to be expelled from the AFL

Hun article next week: the MFC will come to your house in the middle of the night and eat your children.

[sue 9,145]

http://www.afl.com.a...57/default.aspx

this article drained any hope I have, how can we leave this mess without ant penalties

give me some hope fellow demonlanders

I wouldn't increase my anxiety on the basis of that. Other than the reference to looking into an email trail, I didn't see anything new in that article. And looking for emails could mean that they want more evidence than a bunch of rumours and contradictory statements.

[beelzebub 23,383]

One part of me wants the club to come out swinging..a la Eddie style. But I think thats only to gratify the emotive defiant streak in me. The other more salient and astute side would have me shut up, for now, and wait. To open my mouth would only add a fuel to an already over saturated pyre. On that pyre is an effigy and like all effigies they arent the actual entity. Its but a caricature, a distortion. The angry mob wants flames, they want to see someone burn, as long as its not themselves.

How often do you here the guilty , and more over the cowardly guilty scream .."it was him...over there !!"

Often some poor schmuck is carted off and interrogated, humiliated and berated. The angry mob feels validated for its vigilantism as long as someone hangs.

The truly guilty smirk and hide, gloating amongst themselves they have pulled one over the eyes of the crowd and more importantly the authorities. They are too clever by half and 99 times out of a 100 they just cant help but identify themselves eventually as the real culprits.

There are indeed culprits here but its not well intentioned , its not those that followed courses dug for them by others who then coralled them into the stockade.

No its those that seek benefit and cudos at the expense of others efforts and good intent.. It is the parasites, those incapable of creating anything of their own but succour off the blood of others that the guilty here. As is often the case they are the one screaming loudest, baying for blood hoping for deflection.

They are pitiful creatures but i'll give them no pity, in fact i wouldnt even p!ss on them should they be on fire.

I can only think the club not only has traitors in its midst but is more fortunate in having others who's stoicism and resilience under enormous pressure might just get us through in the end.

Its takes a steady nerve to wait, to wait and wait until you can see clearly the means of extraction.

The battle for the MFC cant be won in an arena designed and mastered by those who seek to destroy it. It can only be fought at a place and on terms that are just. It wont be the court of public opinion but more likely the place where the blindfolded lady hangs out.

After we get up , lick our wounds and carry on we will be stronger, more united and better informed. We we know who are on our side and we will know our enemies. After this clears there will be those that feel ashamed of their stance and quickness to judge a team no different from theirs and there will be a a club's whos veracity to stick to its course will only be matched by its ferocity to deal this all that opposed to it.

The Demon will have truly awoken. God help anything in our way then !!