Travis Johnstone vs Jack Watts.

take your pick?

Johnstone in a heartbeat, and that's sad.

I was surprised when Blease donned the red vest - I thought Watts owned it.

FWIW, I reckon it started with him nominating for the 2008 draft; he was VERY under age (he is 21 now!), but am guessing he nominated because the following year GC came into it, and MFC said they would take him (WC had next pick). The age rules changed for the next year's draft.

He should have never nominated for the 2008 draft. Full stop.

Sadly, he has the athletic and ball/eye-hand skills, but not the rest. The AFL is not for Jack.

He will be the MFC's Tambling (legend/folklore wise that is).

Watts has NEVER had the appetite to compete - sadly, some are seeing this for the first time.

Don't really understand all the fuss really....oh yeah, Nik Nat.

Might be a good time to trade him - another club might look at him and see his potential upside and age - good chance they would be prepared to pay overs for him as well. Could be a better option than going on for another 1-2 years, where his value might diminish completely. Will definitely send a very strong message!

However, he is one of the rare players that Neeld has been reasonably defensive about, so I would be surprised if he wasn't in Neeld immediate plans. .

Might be a good time to trade him - another club might look at him and see his potential upside and age - good chance they would be prepared to pay overs for him as well. Could be a better option than going on for another 1-2 years, where his value might diminish completely. Will definitely send a very strong message!

However, he is one of the rare players that Neeld has been reasonably defensive about, so I would be surprised if he wasn't in Neeld immediate plans. .

Absolutely, trade him now. Get something for him.

He's just going to be Josh Fraser / Travis Johnstone (if he's lucky) and tease until he fizzles away.

Act now.

Absolutely, trade him now. Get something for him.

He's just going to be Josh Fraser / Travis Johnstone (if he's lucky) and tease until he fizzles away.

Act now.

Have to say I agree.

Trade now for whatever we can get or we will regret it.

We are already regretting it.

Trade calls are ridiculous, wake up tommorow morning and see if you feel the same way.

He was awful tonight, but had a strong first half of the year. Still a frustrating 1st draft pick, reminds me of Bryce Gibbs, too soft.

From the AFL web site re US combine:

"Essentially the brief was that we wanted guys who were exceptional athletes, who were tall, and the nature of the way they played basketball suggested they were open to physical contact,"

That would leave Jack out, I'd reckon.

Trade calls are ridiculous, wake up tommorow morning and see if you feel the same way.

He was awful tonight, but had a strong first half of the year. Still a frustrating 1st draft pick, reminds me of Bryce Gibbs, too soft.

I said it 6 days ago and have woken up every day feeling the same way, what's going to happen tomorrow that's so special?

Watts, Gysberts, Bate, Bennell, Morton, Blease, Strauss, Green, Garland, Cook, Jurrah, Nicholson, Martin, Davey, Fitzpatrick.

A third of our list has no appetite for the contest and/or no c@#t. Just a team of nice guys.

I'm not sure how you fix this but all I know is you wouldnt want to go to war with any of these blokes.

I hope Neeld is absolutely brutal, because watching Crowley manhandle Jones all night with no support from any teammates was embarrassing.

Unfortunately I think he's in the running for the worst number one pick of the modern era. Which certainly isn't his fault as he didn't choose the mantle. I feel a little sorry for the kid. And I don't blame BP for this one, as most would have chosen him. But it's a lesson. You can look great when you're up against other skinny kids and your talent can shine, but when size, courage and hunger in the AFL becomes a whole new world you can be left as little more than a novelty.

You look at Fyfe, who is a year younger and just shake your head. How did that guy last to pick 20 in the draft a year later than Watts ? Anyone remember how skinny he was ?

If you want to know who understands footy and who doesn't go on to the "Optimists" thread and see who lists Watts as one of the "positives" for the year. It beggars belief. Unfortunately they sum up the generic Melbourne supporter.

Edited September 1, 201213 yr by Ben-Hur

I hope Neeld is absolutely brutal, because watching Crowley manhandle Jones all night with no support from any teammates was embarrassing.

I was waiting for a block, or for his teammates to do something. But nothing.

Ben Hur - if Watts does not dramatically improve his intensity and appetite for the contest then I will definitely blame BP.

We're not talking about a speculative late rookie pick, we're talking about the number 1 pick in the draft. Given the importance of this selection, the resources put in to ensuring you make the right decision must be enormous. The recruiting manager must know these players inside out. Not just their foot skills, marking ability, pace, athleticism, etc. but also their character, mental strength, intensity, hunger, toughness and competitiveness.

I believe that from watching and studying junior footballers you can make pretty accurate calls on their hunger and toughness. BP should have known everything about Watts including these mental traits. If Watts is not a star then it is absolutely BP's fault.

Watts showed some signs earlier in the year of an increased appetite to get involved in the game and greater intensity. But just before his injury and since coming back he has been horrendous. Some of his efforts tonight were absolutely pathetic. The one where he dropped the chest mark because a Docker was closing on him was like watching a 10 year old.

He has time on his side but gee I'd hope he gets a serious talking to about where he's at and what will happen if he doesn't pull his finger out.

Lol i remember 6 months ago when i said to trade Watts i copped a rudiculous amount of hate from this site.

Blind faith strikes again, trade him off for a 2nd rounder.

Lol i remember 6 months ago when i said to trade Watts i copped a rudiculous amount of hate from this site.

Blind faith strikes again, trade him off for a 2nd rounder.

Now you'll get a ridiculous amount of laughs - he's worth a chocolate teapot.

People on this thread comparing him to Gibbs are wrong. On the Gibbs-Morton scale, Watts is somewhere in the middle. At least Gibbs & Morton have kicked more than 3 goals in a match before.

Our last 3 number 1 picks have been Scully, Watts & Johnstone. Coupled with first round picks in the last decade including: Luke Molan, Nick Smith, Daniel Bell, Colin Sylvia, Brock McLean, Matthew Bate, Lynden Dunn, Cale Morton, Sam Blease, James Strauss, Jordan Gysberts & Lucas Cook.

We'd have to be AFL recruiting's dirtiest joke.

Great players play well in great sides........

The club, the media and the supporters, expecting a teenager to carry this club to a premiership?

That's the real joke.......

Jack Watts has been carrying 50 years of desperation, on his shoulders since he's arrived at the club....

Without leaders this club is nothing..... Regardless of who we add....

Blame Jack Watts if you want too.... But the real problem is the fact that we expected him save us, instead of us saving ourselves......

He's a kid...... Nic Nat has champions around him to guide him through tough matches...... Who's Jack had? Moloney....McLean....hahaha what a joke......

Jack Watts could walk in to any other club in the league, and become a superstar of the AFL...... Because there he wouldn't have to carry the whole club.......

For me Jack is one of the few Glimmers we have left....

For me Jack is one of the few Glimmers we have left....

I agree Tatu, the hate on here is amazing, who needs the press when we can turn on our own......

That being said, he sure as hell needs to toughen up and get himself more involved in the game.

He has more pure skill than most anyone, but the physicality (and body strength) is a real concern.

We need this to improve, he needs to want to be great, but he is not the only, or even our biggest concern.

Great players play well in great sides........

The club, the media and the supporters, expecting a teenager to carry this club to a premiership?

That's the real joke.......

Jack Watts has been carrying 50 years of desperation, on his shoulders since he's arrived at the club....

Without leaders this club is nothing..... Regardless of who we add....

Blame Jack Watts if you want too.... But the real problem is the fact that we expected him save us, instead of us saving ourselves......

He's a kid...... Nic Nat has champions around him to guide him through tough matches...... Who's Jack had? Moloney....McLean....hahaha what a joke......

Jack Watts could walk in to any other club in the league, and become a superstar of the AFL...... Because there he wouldn't have to carry the whole club.......

For me Jack is one of the few Glimmers we have left....

I was about to write a similar post but this sums it up for me also I have been arguing with my dad (a passionet dees man) who has been calling jack a dud for years and can't see anything special. Simply put he hasn't been developed properly and quite simply not many have in recent times not sure if it's coaching or support networks or simply leadership. In a side like Geelong, collingwood, Sydney, westcoast, hawthorn he would be a genuine star. Trade him sure but is that going to solve the problems of how we ever developed potential junior stars? I would say not. Why do you think Neeld and co selected Grimmes and Trengove as leaders, because they are the best we have. I feel the club is on the right track we just need more Jonesy's, Grimmes, trengoves and Clarkes Who from all reports work there asses off. Neeld, Craig, Rawlings and brown are all quality individuals that need to galvanize this club of individuals into a team and get the best out of them. Just remember this is there first year together at Melbourne and as expected there will be some big changes at the end of this season starting now lets judge this club again in 12 months and see if there is any improvement from this disastress 2012. Back I topic this includes Watts as he is a massive part of this club. And I can only hope they get the best out of him because his best will be as good as any in the game including NicNat.

School boy playing against men!

Getting cheap possessions playing as a lose man in defence!

Needs to get his hands dirty!

I wouldn't trade him.

Disappointing again. Still maintain he has had about two months of solid footy in both the last two years.

But that means very little, other than perhaps to misguide the few of us left who hold hope of a great talent.

He has got to get out of 2nd gear...

I would train him up as a mid the PS, purely to get him some body contact and for him to get yelled at by Jack Viney when he skirts a contest.

Ben Hur - if Watts does not dramatically improve his intensity and appetite for the contest then I will definitely blame BP.

We're not talking about a speculative late rookie pick, we're talking about the number 1 pick in the draft. Given the importance of this selection, the resources put in to ensuring you make the right decision must be enormous. The recruiting manager must know these players inside out. Not just their foot skills, marking ability, pace, athleticism, etc. but also their character, mental strength, intensity, hunger, toughness and competitiveness.

I believe that from watching and studying junior footballers you can make pretty accurate calls on their hunger and toughness. BP should have known everything about Watts including these mental traits. If Watts is not a star then it is absolutely BP's fault.

Watts showed some signs earlier in the year of an increased appetite to get involved in the game and greater intensity. But just before his injury and since coming back he has been horrendous. Some of his efforts tonight were absolutely pathetic. The one where he dropped the chest mark because a Docker was closing on him was like watching a 10 year old.

He has time on his side but gee I'd hope he gets a serious talking to about where he's at and what will happen if he doesn't pull his finger out.

You're absolutely right Scoop. I cut BP slack on Watts because many top-line recruiters have stated that they too would have taken him. I remember driving in to see him play in the championships at Etihad in 2008. Stephen Wells was being interviewed on SEN and he was asked who he'd take at 1 if he had that opportunity. Geelong were a mile off pick one, which he meant he hadn't given it a lot of thought, but he did utter the name "Jack Watts". And we all know he's the guru of recruiting. But in hindsight I doubt he would have. If he'd had pick one he would have put an enormous amount of effort into the selection and ultimately decided against it.

When I was chatting with my Brother recently, who also went to the championships with me, we both agreed that indeed BP could and should be blamed. I said to him that I'd learnt a lot from those early days of going to Casey to watch the championships. Now, if I had to choose a key forward early in the draft I'd have to be convinced of their aggression, whether they embraced physical contact (like Barry Hall, Brereton, Carey, or Brown), their courage in the air (highly underrated), and their hunger to succeed. These parameters would be non-negotiable and at the top of my list. Watts fails in every one of them. I have these KPI's because I've put some effort into studying footy and players. But why didn't Prendergast have these parameters too ? Especially when you're being paid excellent money as a club's head recruiter.

So yes, I've discussed this very point and agree with you entirely. I cut him slack because I always have. But it's wrong to.

When I was chatting with my Brother recently, who also went to the championships with me, we both agreed that indeed BP could and should be blamed. I said to him that I'd learnt a lot from those early days of going to Casey to watch the championships. Now, if I had to choose a key forward early in the draft I'd have to be convinced of their aggression, whether they embraced physical contact (like Barry Hall, Brereton, Carey, or Brown), their courage in the air (highly underrated), and their hunger to succeed. These parameters would be non-negotiable and at the top of my list. Watts fails in every one of them. I have these KPI's because I've put some effort into studying footy and players. But why didn't Prendergast have these parameters too ? Especially when you're being paid excellent money as a club's head recruiter.

Maybe you're in the wrong gig, B-H :-)

Only half joking.

Ben Hur - if Watts does not dramatically improve his intensity and appetite for the contest then I will definitely blame BP.

We're not talking about a speculative late rookie pick, we're talking about the number 1 pick in the draft. Given the importance of this selection, the resources put in to ensuring you make the right decision must be enormous. The recruiting manager must know these players inside out. Not just their foot skills, marking ability, pace, athleticism, etc. but also their character, mental strength, intensity, hunger, toughness and competitiveness.

I believe that from watching and studying junior footballers you can make pretty accurate calls on their hunger and toughness. BP should have known everything about Watts including these mental traits. If Watts is not a star then it is absolutely BP's fault.

Watts showed some signs earlier in the year of an increased appetite to get involved in the game and greater intensity. But just before his injury and since coming back he has been horrendous. Some of his efforts tonight were absolutely pathetic. The one where he dropped the chest mark because a Docker was closing on him was like watching a 10 year old.

He has time on his side but gee I'd hope he gets a serious talking to about where he's at and what will happen if he doesn't pull his finger out.

Yes I think this is a very prescient post. We are talking about a 'professional' in the industry where he has supposedly had close personal contact with these kids over several years. 10 - 15 years ago a recruiter might be forgiven for the odd howler but surely the expectation with the first few picks has got to be pretty spot on these days.

The Cook decision is worse, though. We're talking about a kid who other recruiters have said had known anxiety and confidence issues. At least Watts seems happy in his skin. A little too happy perhaps. A little too 'relaxed' .... ie. couldn't give a f#!?k

Edited September 2, 201213 yr by Range Rover

Haven't read the thread but just have to say - Watts has been lamentable the last 3 weeks. Soft as butter at the ball in the air, looking for cheapies in space when playing loose. The backline experiment has failed. And he either turns up bigger and tougher next year or he will not make the grade.

Frustrating!