Which is why maybe they saw further ahead than you.

Yes, just like the smart decisions to recruit Morton, Tapscott, Cook, Gysberts, Strauss, Blease, Watts.

Yeah, right.

Nah

I disagree, although Wines had a very very good game, I thought it was Westhoff who was the game breaker/winner... he played back when required to great effect and then went forward and kicked 4 goals in the second that completely swung the game in Port's favour... without his efforts, Port may well have been too far behind after the first quarter to recover.

I agree Westhoff had a sensational game, and finished off the good work of the midfield, but without Wines and co. it wouldnt had made it to the forwards.

Yes, just like the smart decisions to recruit Morton, Tapscott, Cook, Gysberts, Strauss, Blease, Watts.

Yeah, right.

Nah

Oh that was the same recruiter was it?

Yeah right.

Nah.

Oh that was the same recruiter was it?

Yeah right.

Nah.

So what ?

The point being, recruiters make mistakes all of the time. They're paid for foresight, but at the MFC they have a history of getting it wrong.

They got it wrong by not taking Wines. It happens and we live with it. Obviously.

Oh that was the same recruiter was it?

Yeah right.

Nah.

Ahh so it was head of recruiting who went up and wooed Clark to Melbourne and went to Dawes's place to woo him over to was it? Somehow I dont agree with you that Viney as head recruiter calls all the shots...

Ahh so it was head of recruiting who went up and wooed Clark to Melbourne and went to Dawes's place to woo him over to was it? Somehow I dont agree with you that Viney as head recruiter calls all the shots...

Ahh so it was Neeld that went around watching the young players/draftees all year and then selected the one that he (and every other recruiter at the time) thought was the best choice...

Clark and Dawes have nothing to do with drafting Toumpas, but you get points for totally digressing away from the actual subject.

So what ?

The point being, recruiters make mistakes all of the time. They're paid for foresight, but at the MFC they have a history of getting it wrong.

They got it wrong by not taking Wines. It happens and we live with it. Obviously.

It's been one season.

Roos: "development".

Viney also picked Jack Viney, Matt Jones, Terlich, Kent, Clisby, and Jesse Hogan. Clearly knew what he was doing.

Wines, Viney, Hogan, Kent

Would have been the greatest draft bonanza in MFC history

It's fairly well known in AFL circles that Viney pushed hard for Wines and Neeld overruled him. They had a falling out. Wines wanted to put on the red and blue and made his feelings very known to the club. He wanted to spend his career playing alongside his best mate.

But Neeld flocked in to ensure that wouldn't eventuate.

It's been one season.

Roos: "development".

Viney also picked Jack Viney, Matt Jones, Terlich, Kent, Clisby, and Jesse Hogan. Clearly knew what he was doing.

Where have I lambasted Viney ?

He'll have got some right and he'll no doubt get one or two wrong.

He, or someone, stuffed up with Wines.

Btw, getting Hogan was a no brainer, as many of us mentioned at the time.

So what ?

The point being, recruiters make mistakes all of the time. They're paid for foresight, but at the MFC they have a history of getting it wrong.

They got it wrong by not taking Wines. It happens and we live with it. Obviously.

You may well prove to be correct but was it not you that posted a while back that such early predictions are folly and in fact you cannot compare players until their respective careers are nearing their end, as is well demonstrated in the Judd/Hodge example.

Out of interest do you think the Hawks erred by taking Hodge not Judd?

Let's acknowledge the mistake and move on.

Toumpas will never impact a contest like Wines.

Agree with this, move on.

Agree with this, move on.

Yep all over Make the best of what we have

You may well prove to be correct but was it not you that posted a while back that such early predictions are folly and in fact you cannot compare players until their respective careers are nearing their end, as is well demonstrated in the Judd/Hodge example.

Out of interest do you think the Hawks erred by taking Hodge not Judd?

Yes, it was me. I'm expressing what is commonly known as an "opinion" and I'm very happy to be reminded of it in due course.

Purely from a football point of view Hawthorn erred, because they were worried about Judd's shoulders. From a spiritual point of view they didn't err and Hodge became a marvellous footballer.

Just one thing though...

And I doubt you'll understand...

I rate hard bodied, strong over the footy types, that have a very good footy brain. I don't rate timid players, or ones that lack real physicality. And players that have the traits I don't like rarely turn their games around to a point they dominate the competition, or even become genuine A-graders. So Hawthorn always had something to work with in Luke Hodge.

Get my drift ?

No matter..

I rate hard bodied, strong over the footy types, that have a very good footy brain. I don't rate timid players, or ones that lack real physicality. And players that have the traits I don't like rarely turn their games around to a point they dominate the competition, or even become genuine A-graders. So Hawthorn always had something to work with in Luke Hodge.

Whats your call on Josh Kelly ? Went number two but is perceived to be more outside than hard bodied, strong over the footy type. Would you have taken him at number two and if not who would have you taken ?

Also like to hear your thoughts on Salem who was also perceived as more outside - would you have taken him at nine and if not who would you have opted for.

And just how far away from being an MFC player do you think Wines is?

We didn't take him when we should have, that is NOT Toumpas' fault. Toumpas will hopefully become a very worthwhile player for us and Wines is obviously a very good pick up for Port... move on.

I'll try mate but it's going to be difficult.

It's fairly well known in AFL circles that Viney pushed hard for Wines and Need overruled him. They had a falling out. Wines wanted to put on the red and blue and made his feelings very known to the club. He wanted to spend his career playing alongside his best mate.

But Neeld flocked in to ensure that wouldn't eventuate.

Can anyone confirm this?

My blood is boiling

Can anyone confirm this?

My blood is boiling

Mine boiled over years ago hh

I just roll with the blows these days

I suppose the one consolation is despite all Neeld's cockups, we did secure Hogan on his watch.

Can anyone confirm this?

My blood is boiling

Neeld was given "Carte Blanche" to change the culture and run the cllub his way by Don Mclardy. So that would say to me MN had the final say.

Todd would know what a gun Ollie already was.

I think there is a few people here wrtting off Toumpas way too early. He will be a star. You cant have a team chock full of in and under players you need a spread. We already have Vney and Jones and have added Tyson, Michie and Vince. We need the likes of Toumpas in the side. Get off the lads back and back him in instead of writting him off and wishing we had Wines.

Toumpas's pre-season form doesn't warrant him a game this week.

Yes, it was me. I'm expressing what is commonly known as an "opinion" and I'm very happy to be reminded of it in due course.

Purely from a football point of view Hawthorn erred, because they were worried about Judd's shoulders. From a spiritual point of view they didn't err and Hodge became a marvellous footballer.

Just one thing though...

And I doubt you'll understand...

I rate hard bodied, strong over the footy types, that have a very good footy brain. I don't rate timid players, or ones that lack real physicality. And players that have the traits I don't like rarely turn their games around to a point they dominate the competition, or even become genuine A-graders. So Hawthorn always had something to work with in Luke Hodge.

Get my drift ?

No matter..

I'll give this to you Hannibal. You're consistent. Why the need to be rude? I wasn't having a shot at you nor was i rude, yet you cannot resist being rude.

For what its worth i rate people who show a semblance of grace and capacity to engage in intelligent argument over narcissists who rely on simplistic, dismissive insults to make their points.

Toumpas's pre-season form doesn't warrant him a game this week.

Ughhhhh... You've not been paying that much attention then

A very similar scenario will have played out for Hawks fans when they took Hodge not Judd. For years Judd was the clear standout - indeed until he was in his mid twenties he was probably the best player in the league. Two premierships and a norm smith later I doubt too many Hawks fans would now say they made the wrong call.

You're right, though for my money Hodge isn't in the same league as Judd. Hawks would have an additional flag to their names if they'd had Judd throughout his prime. Hodge is a great, Judd is... better than great. (Though Hodge certainly strikes me as a better person, but judged solely on footballing ability and overall impact across their respective careers, Judd is streets ahead).

I think the reason we're all so devastated about Wines is that in the weeks preceding the draft it was considered a done deal that we would be taking Wines. Whitfield was set to go pick 1, Toump 2, Grundy 3, and we'd take Wines. I remember the Dees fans around the world spending a good couple of weeks dreaming of the Sellar Dawes, with Wines from the Vine(y)s (okay, so maybe not many people were particularly keen on the Sellar part, but still...).

That's why it's harder to get over the fact that the kid is a monster. (Fortunately, I drafted him in my ultimate footy league so that was a welcome 136 points this week!).