Lack of Senior Players

[beelzebub 23,382]

Id love to know by what markers do those that feel Neeld is going down the wrong track measure things by.

If its the abillity of some or the many to carry out a role or game plan thenb ask yourslef: is it really theplan or the ability of those tasked?

The style of play required is testing but that to me says more of the medicocrity that passed as a team than it does of any misdirectionof those in charge.

Some who suggest Neeld is barking up the wrong tree and losing the players must surely overate many of our exisitng list. That they struggle says more of them than the task. Its the sam etask asked by other clubs. Successful clubs have players that can play to higher asks. we dont have many at all. This year has shown to the FD who can and who cant and who might, with further mentoring.

The only thing thats certain is the path we were on was sending us to a grave.

[BangkokDemon 96]

Id love to know by what markers do those that feel Neeld is going down the wrong track measure things by.

If its the abillity of some or the many to carry out a role or game plan thenb ask yourslef: is it really theplan or the ability of those tasked?

The style of play required is testing but that to me says more of the medicocrity that passed as a team than it does of any misdirectionof those in charge.

Some who suggest Neeld is barking up the wrong tree and losing the players must surely overate many of our exisitng list. That they struggle says more of them than the task. Its the sam etask asked by other clubs. Successful clubs have players that can play to higher asks. we dont have many at all. This year has shown to the FD who can and who cant and who might, with further mentoring.

The only thing thats certain is the path we were on was sending us to a grave.

Agree 100%.

It's almost like some posters here want to go back to the time when we were little more than a "gentleman's club" for public schoolboys who played "footy" on the weekends in winter and tennis or cricket in summer.

AFL is big business - albeit in a fairly small pond.

And, like in any business environment life is tough.

But, if we were to go back to our glory days, when people like Brian Dixon was an amateur and played for a new fridge or other household appliance in lieu of player payments, so should all the other clubs too. Back then it was simple. No KPI's; no beep tests; no hi level data analysis of player performance and not much training either. That's why players are being shown up for what they are.

I'm as sorry as anyone else to see Bard Green retire. I'm also sad to see that Beemer is struggling when put under the spotlight.

In days gone by maybe these guys could have been 350+ game players.

Maybe even if we had kept with Bailey they could hide - like a several of the 2000 GF group did during the last ND years and at first under DB.

But, we are trying to bury all that and move up to the level of Hawthorn, Geelong, Collingwood - where this sort of thing is normal.

We will not develop a winning culture by being sentimental when it comes to issues like this.

Neeld might not get us there - but let's give him our support...because, I don't like the alternative.

[Demon SeaMan 108]

Ok pls listen up.... Beamer had a cracker 2 yrs ago and should be asked the hard question at seasons end, he's still a talent regardless of the pundits out there having a crack....short memories.

Oh yes Green, I don't say good riddance but farewell during some up & down times, no grudges, no anger just a good honest servant that at times split the middle where most had difficulties on acute angles left or right side.

He's not the experience we need to keep & I question likes of Davey in that category also, although a valuable pinch hitter he can still be!

If anyone knows of n experienced midfielder who can rack 25-30 per game with 5 good yrs left him pls call 555-MFC and ask for Mclardy to hold all monies in the chest until Cloke signs elsewhere for gods sake

[Gippsland Dee 367]

It is clear that we have pushed Green towards the door. Knowing him personally I find it hard to believe that this was his decision. Retiring him is a massive mistake for a 30 year old who still clearly has the body and ability to go on at least 2 more years as a dominate forward. Expect to see him in different colours next season. Unfortunately both Bailey and Neeld in their overly aggressive attempts to rebuilt have forgotten the value of experience. Hell even if Green could not get a game he is worth a spot on the list as a mentor.

One of our problems has been a massive lack of senior players. Simply Bailey dismissed too many too quickly and there was practically no one left to be mentors and show leadership to our young players.

Don't underestimate this problem. It is very significant. Neeld has not learnt from Baileys mistakes.

Moloney falls into the same category in many ways. His poor form and body language is a direct result of mentally struggling under Neeld (with about half the team). He knows his time is coming, he has seen rookies get the captaincy over him, he has been dumped from the leadership group despite seeing himself as the next captain and winning Bluey. Simply the management of this situation as with all the other senior players has been appalling. No wonder he is looking for another club (despite being a life long Melbourne supporter). When you consider it is said 80% of our game is above the shoulders it is little surprise that he has struggled for form. Neeld has mentally destroyed him.

My friends, signing Neeld was the biggest mistake our club has made since sacking Norm Smith, primarily the job of the coach is to get the most out their players. Neeld has destroyed the self confidence and thus ability of at least half the team. Never before have I seen so many players at one time playing as a shadow of their ability. Worse still these players are mostly young. We are broken, it is Neelds fault.

It is my view that the list is a good developing list. We have underperformed primarily due to lack of self belief and confidence which is a direct result of the coach and lack of senior players. No disrespect to Grimes and Trengrove but having them as captains over Moloney and Green is a disgrace and a decision which will only have negative effects on the senior players. Rivers is another that should be talked about in this group and is likely to be seen in different colours next year.

Moloney should be offered a 1 -2 year contact and the contact of Neeld should be terminated. Like Gillard, he should resign in shame… but wont. Financially it is cheaper to dump him and pay him out than to lose the players, sponsors, and prime games and game times as a result of poor ladder position.

I ask the board for the immediate sacking of Neeld for the financial security of our club.

the start of the year under neeld was atrocious, but there have been many encouraging signs in the llast numbe of weeks. the team is begging to gel a bit and thus we're not falling away like at the start of the year or if we are we're atleast fighting back. And blease is coming along nicely and he's put that down to neeld's and craig's work on his defensive side! Jones has florished under neeld and has become a star, and i think that is partly due to the style that neeld has, lets hope he can continue his improvement. their are others that are showing improvement under neeld too!

Moloney has had a bad year, but don't all good players go through bad phases!?!? i think he can bounce back and i truely hope he does. just about the only thing i agree about with what you said is that Green had a year or possible 2 left in him, hopefully it was his decision.

[Little Richard 6,265]

It's not. Green was clear that it was his decision which means GNF is effectively calling him a liar.

Green did say a couple of weeks before he announced his retirement that he wanted to play finals again.

[Range Rover 1,935]

Green did say a couple of weeks before he announced his retirement that he wanted to play finals again.

"I know where this group needs to go, and for them to move forward I need to step aside and let this emerging talent grow." - Brad Green.

[Little Richard 6,265]

"I know where this group needs to go, and for them to move forward I need to step aside and let this emerging talent grow." - Brad Green.

I'm not saying he was pushed out by the club, but it does sound a little fishy.

This is quite possibly 'Brad Green' (written by the club and given to him on a palm card).

You can never really know these days whether the words coming out of a players mouth are his or those of the footy club.

[H_T 3,049]

I'm not saying he was pushed out by the club, but it does sound a little fishy.

This is quite possibly 'Brad Green' (written by the club and given to him on a palm card).

You can never really know these days whether the words coming out of a players mouth are his or those of the footy club.

You're speculating. I'm not and no one else is when Green says having spoken to his family and friends he knows "it's the right time" to bow out. He also said he'd been thinking of it for some time. He may have too'd and fro'd but he came to his decision.

[The heart beats true 18,145]

I just don't get this anxiety. It's pretty obvious to me we aren't playing finals next year either. I'd say a realistic goal is 8-10th. That's a big step in the right direction given we'll still be a very young list at the end of next year. So what point is Greeny serving for the club by playing next year? I think we can safely say that he's a great bloke but probably not a natural leader (those at the club certainly showed they think this when Grimes and Trengove became captains). His spot can be filled by a younger body that's not able to run through the midfield yet, while Clark, Howe and a draftee are marking options.

Instead of hand wringing and finger pointing lets acknowledge that his time was up BUT that we really appreciate his service to the club. If you want to do something to thank him and help the club go to the Adelaide game.

[Range Rover 1,935]

I'm not saying he was pushed out by the club, but it does sound a little fishy.

This is quite possibly 'Brad Green' (written by the club and given to him on a palm card).

You can never really know these days whether the words coming out of a players mouth are his or those of the footy club.

He said what he said. End of story.

Moving on ...

[Little Richard 6,265]

He said what he said. End of story.

Moving on ...

I'm sure it isn't the end of the story for many, and I don't think you get to decide that.

Anyway I have said everything I wanted to say.

Edit: In saying what I said, I don't totally think he was pushed out by Neeld and co., I just thought it sounded a bit nqr. As someone else said, obviously it was speculation.

Edited August 14, 2012 by ThePassenger

[mauriesy 7,353]

Moloney isn't suffering from any mental demons. He's suffering from the physical inability to run, spread, cover his man and defend.

[bing181 9,328]

With 400+ posts you were probably expecting a rational discussion of your comments.

That's what he got.

[olisik 4,060]

I was thinking about it the other day, when the f does Neeld have a holiday? I mean the players take off during the trade period but Neeld works through this....

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

I was thinking about it the other day, when the f does Neeld have a holiday? I mean the players take off during the trade period but Neeld works through this....

I'm pretty sure he doesn't get a holiday until after the trade and draft periods but even then all he will think about is footy. I'f rather play ten games of AFL footy then coach for ten years.

[Its Time for Another 4,287]

When I saw this topic I thought this is going to be a beauty, it is really the issue that is most responsible for us being where we are right now. But when I read your opening comments it was obvious you should have named it The Sack Neeld thread.

Now back to what this topic should be about. NO SENIOR PLAYERS!!!

Why are there no senior players providing guidance and leadership. If you look at all the rebuilding teams (ie not the expansion teams) they all have at least one or more champions guiding and leading the young players. We don't really have any 27+ aged players who fall into this category. Rivers is doing well, Jamar has only emerged in the past two seasons. You obviously can't blame Neeld for this. You've got to blame years of bad drafting and List Management.

Why are our senior players with the exception of Rivers and Jamar not providing leadership. I believe the culture that started under Bailey that if you are too old to be here in 5 years you are out the door has caused a lot of damage to our leadership.

Neeld's decision to chuck virtually all of the senior players out of the leadership group has carried on that mistake. In terms of a coach getting the best out of his players you would have to wonder what he was thinking in treating the senior playing group like this. Clearly with the exception of Rivers and Jamar who he left in the leadership group, you would have to say that the Senior Players have sucked big time this year and I don't blame them.

I went to the Swans first intra club game this year and was able to stand right on the boundary line. It was fascinating to see how minutely the senior players guided the junior players on the ground during the game. Goodes was guiding a player right to an exact spot, within centimetres, to stand to execute the team structure. You could see and hear other senior players doing that for the junior players all over the ground. That's what we are lacking. I think that also shows you that the senior players know the game plan and structures so well that they can bring the younger players up into it much more quickly. Whereas we have an entire playing group having to learn a team structure than no one knows. So you get the double whammy of no one knowing the game plan and no senior players experienced enough to have got onto it quickly and then lead out on the ground.

The outcome is to be expected. A much longer adoption and execution of a new game plan. A much longer wait for the future leaders to have to develop without the guidance onfield and off field of a decent senior group of players who grew up playing AFL to elite standards. We know from the preseason that those standards didn't exist at the club until this year.

One thing I really like about Neeld/Craig/Misson is how they have the knowledge base to set standards and be able to compare where our list is at against what an objective benchmark is. Eg last weekends comparison of games played between us and the opposition. Misson's fitness and conditioning database he has brought across from other elite teams. There's no [censored] just objective explanations based on facts. I like it.

[rpfc 28,762]

Why are our senior players with the exception of Rivers and Jamar not providing leadership. I believe the culture that started under Bailey that if you are too old to be here in 5 years you are out the door has caused a lot of damage to our leadership.

Neeld's decision to chuck virtually all of the senior players out of the leadership group has carried on that mistake. In terms of a coach getting the best out of his players you would have to wonder what he was thinking in treating the senior playing group like this. Clearly with the exception of Rivers and Jamar who he left in the leadership group, you would have to say that the Senior Players have sucked big time this year and I don't blame them.

As someone who called for an overhaul of the LG before this year I don't agree that this action precipitated the collapse we see this year. If the form and attitude of the senior (read experienced) players were affected by their removal from a 'titled' position of being in a Leadership Group than that proves they never should have been there in the first place.

What entitled sh!ts you would have to be to show up for work - put in the effort you did in 2011, show zero onfield or off-field leadership and have a hissy fit when you are removed from the Leadership Group designed to get the most out of the entire squad, not just those in the Leadership Group.

Our best leaders are our young players, and until they become our best players and can compete with the best players of other clubs - we will struggle.

But the new Leadership Group was the right decision for the future of the MFC, even if it hurts the feelings of 4 27+ year old faux leaders.

One last thing - Rivers is not in the revamped Leadership Group. He has dealt well with the change. But we shouldn't have done it because Moloney, Green, and Davey don't like it? Where are they in their careers right now? One is retired, another has a career threatening injury, and the other is at the crossroads.

Edited August 16, 2012 by rpfc

[Its Time for Another 4,287]

As someone who called for an overhaul of the LG before this year I don't agree that this action precipitated the collapse we see this year. If the form and attitude of the senior (read experienced) players were affected by their removal from a 'titled' position of being in a Leadership Group than that proves they never should have been there in the first place.

What entitled sh!ts you would have to be to show up for work - put in the effort you did in 2011, show zero onfield or off-field leadership and have a hissy fit when you are removed from the Leadership Group designed to get the most out of the entire squad, not just those in the Leadership Group.

Our best leaders are our young players, and until they become our best players and can compete with the best players of other clubs - we will struggle.

But the new Leadership Group was the right decision for the future of the MFC, even if it hurts the feelings of 4 27+ year old faux leaders.

One last thing - Rivers is not in the revamped Leadership Group. He has dealt well with the change. But we shouldn't have done it because Moloney, Green, and Davey don't like it? Where are they in their careers right now? One is retired, another has a career threatening injury, and the other is at the crossroads.

Fair points. I also like the look of Mitch Clark's leadership and passion this year.

[Disco Demons 92]

we might have a new leadership group this year...but the guys playing in the previous leadership group are still playing. Therefore the Leadership group is not the problem.

[binman 43,732]

One thing i that frustrates me is the idea that Neeld has 'lost"some players. I'm sorry but this is a nonsense and reeks of one of the key problems the club has for a long time - ie so called senior players having too much influence and basically running the show; the classic tail wagging the dog scenario.

Neeld has come in with a clear mandate from the board to address this and other culture related issues. Now you could argue that his approach of going hard is not the right one and that more a less abrasive, "man management" (ie an approach more like the one Wallace used at Richmond to change culture) approach might be better. Myself i'm not sure - i do think he went a bit hard early but i think he has become more inclusive and dare i say it supportive in the last few months. This is particulalry true when it comes to the younger player, who Neeld seems to pump up alot (see his quotes on Blease, Strauss, the Jacks et al - Robbos interviews with are quite reveling on this)

However it could easily be argued that our culture has been so so poor that nothing but a slash and burn approach would be effective. So he has 'lost' some senior player by being direct, daring to drop them (from the team and leadership group). So what? To be honest these so called senior player are part of the problem and i reckon Neeld demands the buy in green talked about or if not he's more than happy to see them go and build his team from the ground up.

Root and branch. Not a re-build; a new build.

Edited August 16, 2012 by binman