On 15/07/2012 at 10:22, Hardnut said:

Intriguing to see so many posters so defensive of the status quo. (General G S Paton would disagree.)

Intriguing to see so many posters attacking so few posters. (John Stuart Mill wrote about the tyranny of the majority.) Good to see the few still standing.

Intriguing to see a few posters trying to ‘win’ a discussion by ‘playing the man’ rather than the ball, by attempting to discredit any opposition or making non-sensical comments.

MFC has a history of lack of success on and off the field since 1965 – this will not change until everyone associated with, and supporting MFC, works together as a team using correct processes which bring respect and a successful club culture. There is no ‘I’ in team, there is no room for ego in achieving success, there is no place for second rate performances, and in particular there is no place for those who refuse to accept the responsibility that comes with powerful positions especially by simply blaming those at the levels below them.

Gen. Patton was a ego driven maniac who wasted so many lives trying to beat the Poms to Berlin....Sorry for the history lesson but I couldn't resist.....He also belted a wounder soldier in a hospital and called him a coward because he had wounds in his back....Some hero to be Quoted....

  On 16/07/2012 at 00:14, tonatopia said:

I think hardnut and I have a simple agenda, to wins games of footy. Probably the same agenda as yours. The difference between 'your' opinions and 'ours' is that we expected a whole lot more from the team than what has been delivered, and we think the team is underperforming and the coach has something to answer for.

We are the worst performing Victorian club by a mile this year, considering last year we were in finals range.

Does this raise any questions in you mind?

If we can win a few more games by the end of the year and start to look good, I will obviously support Neeld to have another crack in 2013. However, if we do not win another game this year, you would have to ask the question, have we recruited the right man as our coach. Especially considering that M. Malthouse is up for grabs.

I think the only way to win a premiership is to honestly give an appraisal of the coaches performance over the last 12 months, if we find that he is not the best available coach in the country, we replace him with a proven premiership coach.

How is this argument not balanced?

Gee this worked for Dennis Pagan didn't it??????

Malthouse took an underperforming Collingwood to a couple of grand finals almost immediately with a pretty ordinary list. Then won a premiership.

He also won 2 premierships with the Eagles.

And now, you can sense that he is itching to get back into coaching.

Dare I say, I think Carlton will snag him, unless we act first.

Malthouse may be the difference between us win a premiership and potentially re-building again in 3 years time.

Q. Why does everyone love Neeld so much? Apart from recruiting Clark and flogging the players on the training track, what has he done?

  On 14/07/2012 at 08:41, picket fence said:

And we supposedly recruited Strauss for his 'Elite" kicking skills, well when I switched on for the last quarter I saw him turn the ball over three times in ten minutes of footy! Hardly "Elite" and don't give me "But this was his first game"... stuff Nup Strauss like many of our players cannot hit targets. Just don't know why the hype over his supposedly excellent disposal based on what I saw today!

Strauss' kicking is elite. During the first three quarters he hit targets with precision. During the last quarter, the targets were not there to hit.

  On 16/07/2012 at 03:38, tonatopia said:

Malthouse took an underperforming Collingwood to a couple of grand finals almost immediately with a pretty ordinary list. Then won a premiership.

He also won 2 premierships with the Eagles.

And now, you can sense that he is itching to get back into coaching.

Dare I say, I think Carlton will snag him, unless we act first.

Malthouse may be the difference between us win a premiership and potentially re-building again in 3 years time.

Q. Why does everyone love Neeld so much? Apart from recruiting Clark and flogging the players on the training track, what has he done?

Mate honestly, even if we went for Malthouse there is no way in hell that he will come to us as senior coach. He would see us as a basket case getting rid of a coach that he recommended and is a mentor too after his first year in the job. A club he has openly said would probably take at least 5 years hard work to get on track. Let Neeld do his job and stop the fanciful rubbish.

  On 16/07/2012 at 03:38, tonatopia said:

And now, you can sense that he is itching to get back into coaching.

Dare I say, I think Carlton will snag him, unless we act first.

Malthouse may be the difference between us win a premiership and potentially re-building again in 3 years time.

Just shows a complete lack of understanding - have you ever listened to Malthouse on the radio? He's very good to listen to but he defends his proteges like there's no tomorrow.

  On 16/07/2012 at 00:14, tonatopia said:

I think hardnut and I have a simple agenda, to wins games of footy. Probably the same agenda as yours. The difference between 'your' opinions and 'ours' is that we expected a whole lot more from the team than what has been delivered, and we think the team is underperforming and the coach has something to answer for.

We are the worst performing Victorian club by a mile this year, considering last year we were in finals range.

Does this raise any questions in you mind?

If we can win a few more games by the end of the year and start to look good, I will obviously support Neeld to have another crack in 2013. However, if we do not win another game this year, you would have to ask the question, have we recruited the right man as our coach. Especially considering that M. Malthouse is up for grabs.

I think the only way to win a premiership is to honestly give an appraisal of the coaches performance over the last 12 months, if we find that he is not the best available coach in the country, we replace him with a proven premiership coach.

How is this argument not balanced?

Are you serious? The man has a contract based on the club's understanding that there needed to be a reversal of culture in order to move forward. Sometimes this means taking some steps backward. I guess it's like kickiing the ball backward to create space sometimes. The point is, Neeld was not appointed to continue the work of Dean Bailey. He was appointed to create a new culture among the players and football dept. That's what he's doing. I don't care if we don't win another game this year because I know the foundations are being laid for a strong, successful future. If you're happy with eight wins a year against mediocre opposition then perhaps you should swap to supporting Richmond.

I've been waiting nearly fifty years for some long term success. If I have to wait another couple of years, so be it.

  On 16/07/2012 at 03:13, Bossdog said:

Gen. Patton was a ego driven maniac who wasted so many lives trying to beat the Poms to Berlin....Sorry for the history lesson but I couldn't resist.....He also belted a wounder soldier in a hospital and called him a coward because he had wounds in his back....Some hero to be Quoted....

You should study your history more carefully - movies usually don't get it right - Patton is a good example of real leaders doing what has to be done in the circumstances. He could have changed the course of history, but for politics. (The scapegoats of Pearl Harbour are another example of 'movie history' and the real Darwin story is only now emerging.....)

what he (RR) said ^^^^^^^^^^ hear hear !!!

Just for the record, as Dean Bailey's name keeps coming up, I have never mentioned returning to that era. There were positives and negatives which have been overly discussed. Time to move on. At some point we will say the same about Neeld.

  On 16/07/2012 at 03:38, tonatopia said:

Q. Why does everyone love Neeld so much?

Why? ... Because he ignores short-sighted, agenda-driven reactionaries like you in pursuit of his mission to transform our club's heretofore stinking club culture.

Purely on that basis he his, if not yet loved, then most definitely respected.

Do you realize how utterly pointless your bleating is? The man is going nowhere.

  On 16/07/2012 at 04:39, Range Rover said:

Why? ... Because he ignores short-sighted, agenda-driven reactionaries like you in pursuit of his mission to transform our club's heretofore stinking club culture.

Purely on that basis he his, if not yet loved, then most definitely respected.

Do you realize how utterly pointless your bleating is? The man is going nowhere.

Then why are you so vitriolic and obsessed in trying to stifle critical discussion of him?

  On 16/07/2012 at 04:43, Hardnut said:

Then why are you so vitriolic and obsessed in trying to stifle critical discussion of him?

What's it like in that tunnel of yours?

  On 16/07/2012 at 03:38, tonatopia said:

Malthouse took an underperforming Collingwood to a couple of grand finals almost immediately with a pretty ordinary list. Then won a premiership.

He also won 2 premierships with the Eagles.

And now, you can sense that he is itching to get back into coaching.

Dare I say, I think Carlton will snag him, unless we act first.

Malthouse may be the difference between us win a premiership and potentially re-building again in 3 years time.

Q. Why does everyone love Neeld so much? Apart from recruiting Clark and flogging the players on the training track, what has he done?

Distopia?

  On 16/07/2012 at 04:33, Hardnut said:

You should study your history more carefully - movies usually don't get it right - Patton is a good example of real leaders doing what has to be done in the circumstances. He could have changed the course of history, but for politics. (The scapegoats of Pearl Harbour are another example of 'movie history' and the real Darwin story is only now emerging.....)

Tell that to the dead......Wasn't based on the movie......The decisions he made cost thousands of American live that with more Prudence and Co operation with the British could have been avoided and the result would have been the same

  On 16/07/2012 at 04:43, Hardnut said:

Then why are you so vitriolic and obsessed in trying to stifle critical discussion of him?

The only reason you feel 'stifled' is because I keep exposing how embarrassingly narrow minded your viewpoint is.

Our new coach deserves a fair go. You have not afforded him one. Simple as that.

You all say we are slow transitioning into a 'new culture'.

Have you ever considered a 'winning culture'.

You know, when we score more points than the opposition.

  On 15/07/2012 at 02:52, Ben-Hur said:

I don't believe that Sydney's list is choc full of talent, but they do have a superstar in Goodes, they do have an outside mid in AA form with 32 goals in Jetta, and they do have an engine room of contested ball winning mids in Kennedy, McVeigh, Jack, Hannebery and Jude Bolton. How do our mids stack up against theirs and what part of the ground are games won and lost ? Their 5 grunt midfielders average over 21 possessions a game, whereas we have one mid that averages over 21 possessions a game. And we don't have an express line breaker like Jetta, although that's Blease's challenge for next year. When we get our midfield right we'll start winning lots of games of football. I reckon we'll be a far better unit within two years, but comparing the output of the two clubs now shows a complete lack of understanding as to where we're at and where they're at. But at least you're good at something.

I could mention their experienced leadership group and a coaching panel that's been in place for nearly a decade, but it would probably fall on deaf ears.

There midfield is a clearance machine with such depth they rotate the likes of Jack, Hanneberry, Kennedy, Bolton, Mcveigh & O'Keefe then you have the outside run of Jetta with either Mattner, Shaw or Malceski off half back. Would be frightening of they had Rohan playing outside as well rotating from a forward flank witH Jetta. They are ahead of us in depth and outside speed

Just for the record and clarifying BH this was not in response to your post but backing up the post from whover it was (possibly Tonotopia) comparing us with Sydney

  On 16/07/2012 at 04:58, tonatopia said:

You all say we are slow transitioning into a 'new culture'.

Have you ever considered a 'winning culture'.

You know, when we score more points than the opposition.

You're the person I hear complaining at the fast food counter because your burger has taken longer than two minutes, yes?

No no no, its not about winning, its about bottoming out, re-drafting, sacking loyal players and selecting unproven coaches in an attempt to change a culture.

Re: Strauss kicking, I think it's good. In the first three, he hit targets and unlike many of our players can kick with low trajectory.

  On 14/07/2012 at 06:27, Face Your Demons said:

No. They had a dip just ran out of legs. They do show a bit today, week by week it's coming together.

It's far to easy to just knock them.

Hi Face your Demons,

Yourself and many other in this forum need to step back and judge from an unbiased viewpoint. In other words come into the real world.

Tired of hearing " oh if only we played 4 quarters" "ran out of legs". Fact is Freo played ONE quarter and won easily. Melbourne were always average. Consistently kicked Out on the full under Neeld's "Collingwood Model". No rudder, no leadership and going nowhere. Melbourne are worse off now than way back 66, 67 and 68. Daniher and Bailey were far more superior to the current Coach who by the way will not Coach into 2014. He will not succeed next year. Not his fault. Blame and shame on Lyon for giving him the job after a Late with Malthouse. The Guy is a great Suburban Coach and not in the Calibre of Malthouse or Buckley.

Thank heavens for GC and GWS otherwise we would be absolute rock bottom.

Anything but a win v PA is not acceptable and nor should it be.

The Grimes/Trengove Captaincy set up is laughable along with leaving Rivers our best defender at FF all day.

So depressing!...Yes and Save the injury excuses!!

  On 16/07/2012 at 05:42, thaipantsman said:

the current Coach who by the way will not Coach into 2014.

Care to make a bet on that?

P.S what's with the strange use of capitals?

There ought to be an "Oi Vey" button !!

  On 16/07/2012 at 05:57, binman said:

Care to make a bet on that?

P.S what's with the strange use of capitals?

nO! thanks