I'm sorry, but I find the f/s ruling very confusing. Just like a few of you I'd imagine

And I'm sure it's been asked. But couldn't figure out the answer from other peoples responses; but

If we trade away pick three to another club. Are we still entitled to pick viney with our next 'non-compensation pick' ie our second round pick. Or is that somehow breaking the draft rules?

Because how sweet would it be if we used pick 3 for trade. AND use our 4th pick on a draftee. Our pick 13. . AND our second draft pick (20 odd) on viney.

Is it possible?

Edited July 3, 201213 yr by robbo king

If we trade away pick three to another club. Are we still entitled to pick viney with our next 'non-compensation pick' ie our second round pick. Or is that somehow breaking the draft rules?

Yeah I flipped through this thread, despite a lot of arrogance shown to those who don't understand it I don't think anyone shared a link.

http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=66411

Basically anyone who wants Viney or any other draftee that is a potential under the Father/Son rule has to nominate him prior to Trade week. They are then obligated to use that pick.... So if GWS say we'll use pick 1 on him, we then have to say we want him in which case we are obliged to use pick 3 and cannot trade it, or we can tell them no thanks in which case GWS has to use pick 1 on him and we can do what we like with pick 3.

If the earliest bid on him is after Pick 3 by any club we have to use our next pick (Second round)

People feel free to correct me if that's not accurate.

F/S bidding happens "before" the draft or trade period.

You "can't" use any compo picks on a F/S pick.

It is either pick 3, second round pick or we don't take him.

Yeah I flipped through this thread, despite a lot of arrogance shown to those who don't understand it I don't think anyone shared a link.

That's because it's been explained in umpteen other threads on here over the past month.....

I'm not accusing any other posters of this, but it's been said so many times in so many threads, that now when I see the "let's just trade our picks then take Viney with a late one" suggestion, I immediately think "troll". Rightly or wrongly.

But yes, the F/S bidding is held PRIOR to trade week, so picks CANNOT be traded away before the bidding.

You bid for Viney with what you start with.

AND to my understanding (I don't have a source) the compensation picks are not included in F/S bidding, so no matter what, we cannot be made to use pick 12 on Viney.

And I know it's wrong, but I will continue to say "trade week" instead of "the trade period", so that I don't hav to go back and immediately edit every post I make involving trades!

Every time I see someone write "trade week" instead of trade period I imedietly think troll

Every time I see someone write "trade week" instead of trade period I imedietly think troll

lol

We can be funny on here!

i was thinking about Xavier Ellis what do you guys think of him

So, we are about to become involved in the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" father-son business. What would be worse, paying a high price for a father-son who subsequently doesn't make it or not being prepared to do so and missing out on a gem? Other teams have faced this dilemma with mixed results. St Kilda appears to have got it right by not taking Sam Sheldon while (arguably) Collingwood might have got it wrong by not selecting Liam Picken. On the other side of the coin, Collingwood selected Brayden Shaw and we selected Chris Johnson, neither of which produced much value.

On balance, I'd go with what I think is the riskier strategy of paying the high price and keeping Viney. If it has to be pick 3, so be it.

Other clubs never seem to have the problems MFC seem to have with this FS pick

The MFC must get value with all their picks Viney included father son doesnt matter as much as maximising the return from the available picks

Some here seem to be prepared to pay a premium for Viney

I just dont agree with that

Other clubs never seem to have the problems MFC seem to have with this FS pick

The MFC must get value with all their picks Viney included father son doesnt matter as much as maximising the return from the available picks

Some here seem to be prepared to pay a premium for Viney

I just dont agree with that

We will be paying a premium for whoever we pick with Picks 3 and 4.

If Viney had a different last name he would be right in the mix for us and we have intimate knowledge of the kid and have been working with him for two years - these are not small intangibles. If we pick him - we know what we are getting.

We will be paying a premium for whoever we pick with Picks 3 and 4.

If Viney had a different last name he would be right in the mix for us and we have intimate knowledge of the kid and have been working with him for two years - these are not small intangibles. If we pick him - we know what we are getting.

I tend to agree somewhat with what you are saying in that the time we have invested makes him 'ready to go', and the club knows what they are getting.

That means absolutely nothing when ranking draft prospects around him. Yes they know what they are getting, but they can still rate other kids higher than him after that process is done, and regardless of the work they have put into him. The longer the season goes.... the less convinced I am that we will need to use pick 3 on him, this is a good thing for us. If other kids come out being rated higher it doesn't 'de-value' Viney's worth to us, just the price we would need to pay for him. He is probably still a monty for a Rnd1 2013 with whichever pick he goes for.

Whitfield still sounds like a clear number 1, Daniher actually sounds a more likely prospect for GWS and GC to nominate and be delighted to get him (i.e not a bluff), and even though they are not going to get him, and can still nominate Viney regardless,... these clubs have received their leg up, and now have to play the draft in the same way as eveyone else now.... They will only nominate a player that they are prepared to take with a top 2 pick. Viney sounds easily top 10 material. Unless he is top 2 material there is no issue here for us... We get him for a steal, and 3 other 1st round picks alongside him.

Edited July 4, 201213 yr by Oucher

Whitfield is still the consensus number 1 by some margin. The general view is that you could throw a blanket over the rest. It's unlikely whoever will hold pick 1 will bid for Viney, but whoever holds pick 2 (esp GWS) will be all too happy to spend that pick on him. His game time was managed yesterday, but when he was on he caught the eye, esp when he broke away from the packs (and speared a pass to Joe Daniher on one occassion, had me grinning) and he did enough to justify a high pick I thought.

That said, I think we should throw the kitchen sink to try and get Martin, and if in negotiations we convince GWS not to bid on Jack V, and deliver us the other Jack (M) to tuck away for a year, it will be a draft win for the ages.

Edited July 5, 201213 yr by ChaserJ

A 6th Jack??

Do it.

Suggested elsewhere - 4 + 13 for Boak + 7 is a win-win deal for Port if he wants to leave and us if we really want him - assuming Port finish above the Dogs. Pick 7 should still deliver a decent mid.

I like this Old

I tend to agree somewhat with what you are saying in that the time we have invested makes him 'ready to go', and the club knows what they are getting.

That means absolutely nothing when ranking draft prospects around him. Yes they know what they are getting, but they can still rate other kids higher than him after that process is done, and regardless of the work they have put into him. The longer the season goes.... the less convinced I am that we will need to use pick 3 on him, this is a good thing for us. If other kids come out being rated higher it doesn't 'de-value' Viney's worth to us, just the price we would need to pay for him. He is probably still a monty for a Rnd1 2013 with whichever pick he goes for.

Whitfield still sounds like a clear number 1, Daniher actually sounds a more likely prospect for GWS and GC to nominate and be delighted to get him (i.e not a bluff), and even though they are not going to get him, and can still nominate Viney regardless,... these clubs have received their leg up, and now have to play the draft in the same way as eveyone else now.... They will only nominate a player that they are prepared to take with a top 2 pick. Viney sounds easily top 10 material. Unless he is top 2 material there is no issue here for us... We get him for a steal, and 3 other 1st round picks alongside him.

I still think we might have to do a deal with these bottom feeders to ensure they don't try to upset our dream of Viney with second rounder and 3 first round draft picks- because at the end of the day they still have a chance to upset one of their competitors opportunity to make itself stonger.

Some say getting Viney with second rounder isn't fair, but I say we need all the help we can get as we are a pathetic team. Basically we make a deal that wont cost us too much and we could end up with at best an extra superstar in our midfield, which we desperately need.

Just watch Sheeds orchastrate GWS bidding for Viney, bet you he'd even bid for Viney over Daniher. I can see it coming from his wrinkly old deluded mouth right now. I remember hearing him say once words to the affect of "don't want to take any players from Essendon" because he holds no grudges against them. Hate this bloke.

I still think we might have to do a deal with these bottom feeders to ensure they don't try to upset our dream of Viney with second rounder and 3 first round draft picks- because at the end of the day they still have a chance to upset one of their competitors opportunity to make itself stonger.

Some say getting Viney with second rounder isn't fair, but I say we need all the help we can get as we are a pathetic team. Basically we make a deal that wont cost us too much and we could end up with at best an extra superstar in our midfield, which we desperately need.

Just watch Sheeds orchastrate GWS bidding for Viney, bet you he'd even bid for Viney over Daniher. I can see it coming from his wrinkly old deluded mouth right now. I remember hearing him say once words to the affect of "don't want to take any players from Essendon" because he holds no grudges against them. Hate this bloke.

It's definitely possible.... Ideally by the end of the year there are 2 standout choices that is pretty unanimous and those two picks are good enough so that we don't have to worry about playing mind games. Also if Viney is 'perceived' in the next tier that you throw a blanket over... then that doesn't help us either, because that does create the uncertainty that might lead us to blink.

In recent drafts the top two picks have been pretty clear cut

Patton & Cogniglio

Watts & NikNat

Scully & Trengove

Kreuzer & Cotchin.

Only one recently that has been a little less clear was with Swallow (clear first) but Day and Bennell were not so clear cut.

In all of this about Gold coast it appears that Josh Caddy will be on the move. We will have way better picks then the bombers (again) so we could be a chance.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/this-is-no-time-to-abandon-struggling-suns/story-e6frf9io-1226417739977

In all of this about Gold coast it appears that Josh Caddy will be on the move. We will have way better picks then the bombers (again) so we could be a chance.

http://www.heraldsun...o-1226417739977

I would think we are better off going to the draft than trade for Caddy, wouldn't use our earlier picks on him.

It things are run down at GC I'd be looking to cherry pick their best Vic born players.

Not sure about Caddy, his "Essendon or bust" effort last year smacked of immaturity and arrogance (with little reason to date)...

In all of this about Gold coast it appears that Josh Caddy will be on the move. We will have way better picks then the bombers (again) so we could be a chance.

http://www.heraldsun...o-1226417739977

A good scenario would therefore be;

1. We finish 16th.

2. We deal pick 3 and a (player or swap later picks) to GWS for their 2 Under 17 picks.

3. We do a trade with GC if we want Caddy and can convince him to come to us, for a player and or pick swap.

4. We get JV with our 2nd round pick.

5. We retain picks 4 and 12.

In all of this about Gold coast it appears that Josh Caddy will be on the move. We will have way better picks then the bombers (again) so we could be a chance.

http://www.heraldsun...o-1226417739977

I don't get any link between the GC facilities and Josh Caddy being on the move

I don't get any link between the GC facilities and Josh Caddy being on the move

Within the article it states that Caddy will more then likely seek a move to Victoria again.

Within the article it states that Caddy will more then likely seek a move to Victoria again.

Cheers - must have missed it through my tears of pity for GC

Within the article it states that Caddy will more then likely seek a move to Victoria again.

You going on saturday mate i will be going and im going to get brett to come along we should meet up and have a beer.