Carlton

[Robot Devil 1,895]

Didn't Scotland already have charges for assault ?

Errrr... Yes. The point I am making is that whilst Scotland is facing assault charges, Sticks should refrain from making references to assaulting things.

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

It will be even better if the failure continues and the internal blame game starts and Ratten is sacked. Can't waite.

Nor can Carlton it seems.

[rjay 23,935]

There is a big lesson for us here. Carlton tried to trade into a flag (along with a bit of tanking) with Judd and to a lesser extent Brock. In doing so they let draft picks and some good young players go. It has meant that they don't have enough quality when they get a couple of injuries, they don't have the young players pushing through to fill places as a team like Collingwood do.

Football is about team, Judd alone won't win Carlton a flag and Ablett won't win GWS one. Invest in the draft and development and we will build our team, try for the quick fix and we will come unstuck.

[Pennant St Dee 11,336]

There is a big lesson for us here. Carlton tried to trade into a flag (along with a bit of tanking) with Judd and to a lesser extent Brock. In doing so they let draft picks and some good young players go. It has meant that they don't have enough quality when they get a couple of injuries, they don't have the young players pushing through to fill places as a team like Collingwood do.

Football is about team, Judd alone won't win Carlton a flag and Ablett won't win GWS one. Invest in the draft and development and we will build our team, try for the quick fix and we will come unstuck.

Good point and something we need to be very careful about with all the current Boak, Cloke & Beams talk. The Cats great team of recent years only had Ottens who was traded in, Meth Coast refuse to give up early picks and it is something they have done since the 90's.

So whilst I'm happy we got Mitch Clark, not sure about overstretching ourselves chasing other big money players. Especially since we will have 3 picks in the first round of this years draft. Can't see Neeld going for anymore skinny 3/4 year project players so would expect if we pick well and add another hard preseason into what we have, namely Trenners, Watts, Gysberts, Cook, Mcdonald, Taggert, Tapscott, Howe, Tynan, Magner things could turn around as early as mid 2013.

Not saying we will see these players turn into superstars but we start to see depth which is what has helped the Pies, Meth Coast cover injuries and also seen the bluebaggers struggle

Edited July 1, 2012 by Pennant St Dee

[dee-luded 2,958]

There is a big lesson for us here. Carlton tried to trade into a flag (along with a bit of tanking) with Judd and to a lesser extent Brock. In doing so they let draft picks and some good young players go. It has meant that they don't have enough quality when they get a couple of injuries, they don't have the young players pushing through to fill places as a team like Collingwood do.

Football is about team, Judd alone won't win Carlton a flag and Ablett won't win GWS one. Invest in the draft and development and we will build our team, try for the quick fix and we will come unstuck.

To workout the Value of Judd to the team, you have to look at what they were before Judd got there.

Yes they may be better off now if they had just recruited GAblett jnr for last year, but recruiting Judd has transformed that clubs culture from crap to very good.

If they went our way, they'd have more talent but less quality culture. They'd be still trying to clean it up.

Edited July 1, 2012 by dee-luded

[Sir Why You Little 34,615]

Anyone from Carlscum been sacked yet?

[Sir Why You Little 34,615]

To workout the Value of Judd to the team, you have to look at what they were before Judd got there.

Yes they nay be better off now if they had just recruited GAblett jnr for last year, but recruiting Judd has transformed that clubs culture from crap to very good.

If they went our way, they'd have more talent but less quality culture. They'd be still trying to clean it up.

Carlscum's club culture stinks..always has & always will..Ju$$ went there because of Richard Pratt and a dodgy Visy deal.

That same culture may kill the club as it goes against a salary cap-Fingers crossed.

[rjay 23,935]

To workout the Value of Judd to the team, you have to look at what they were before Judd got there.

Yes they may be better off now if they had just recruited GAblett jnr for last year, but recruiting Judd has transformed that clubs culture from crap to very good.

If they went our way, they'd have more talent but less quality culture. They'd be still trying to clean it up.

I'm not saying they should have recruited Ablett at all, what I'm saying is that chasing the one big fish is too big a price to pay for both Carlton and GC. Carlton would have developed well without Judd and who knows where they would be placed today with Kennedy and other early round picks they have given up. Culture, Judd hasn't really had a big influence on that in a positive way, Fev, the Casboult issue, Twitter...........

Recruiting and development, development and recruiting the chicken or the egg. Some smart trading yes, Clark is our smart trade lets use our early picks at the draft then see if there is anyone around for our later picks maybe or a player trade (not young developing from us), are there anymore Kennedy's (Swans version) out there?

[Sloth 8]

There is no evidence whatsoever that tanking has adversely affected Carlton or Melbourne. There's so many millions of other variables that affect how teams play that it's ridiculous to blame it on just one.

The truth is that we will never know the impact that tanking had on either club because there is no way of measuring it. The best we can do is guess, which is equal to just making stuff up.

My concern is that making a team tank contradicts the reason anyone plays sport in the first place- the passion, and enjoyment it provides. If you're being told to play to lose, where does that passion go? And the desire to win? Especially with an impressionable young squad the accountability for not playing to the best of its ability flies out the window. You are right though. It's a subjective affair and not statistically measurable.