The Urge to Merge

[640MD 3,570]

Well each to their own my friend. A Melbourne Dawks flag would not excite me very much at all.

Like a Beatles reunion without John Lennon or George Harrison.

I could never support anything brown & gold. I was there in '87.

Agree totally could not support the DAWKS, those in charge did what they wanted

Not what the majority of the supporters wanted !!

Go Dees give 'em HELL !!! bruise em,

[Guest no merger]

Well Jarka so what I said did didnt take place. Well me harty it certainly DID.

my name is Dennis Jordan and I live in Pakenham so look it up and come round and tell me I am a liar. Oh also tell my wife she was next to me.

If you cant make it all this way out I will be sitting at the G at 52k2 and my wife will be next to me at 52k3. Any home game will do as we go to them all.

I didnt suggest anything I only stated what I knew to be a FACT because I was the person involved, also You are right as I couldnt hear mr ridley as he didnt answer MY question.

I was standing at the microphone in the centre isle I suppose about a dozen rows from the stage.

OH JARKA what is your real name and where do you sit at the G.

You want to see who I am COME ON DOWN and call me a liar.

.

[Choko 493]

Sorry, that's crap. I remember Ridley answering all questions asked of him. The most likely scenario was that you couldn't hear him because the mob abused and shouted him down everytime he opened his mouth.

Look, Ridley's proposal was destined to fail right from the begining, but I won't stand by and let his character by smeared by childish rubbish. I was there, I saw all the Q&A and what you suggested simply did not take place. Now, if you've got the nuggets use your real username and not an alias so we can see who you are.

What complete and utter tripe.

Well, I haven't read Ridley's book, but if what Vanlo says is correct and Ridley claims in his book that only non-members were locked out, then Ridley is simply lying. Like No Merger, I saw when the line got cut off, and I remember people waving their memberships and shouting out anti-merger slogans. It was a disgraceful act towards members, in whose name the board was acting.

And Jarka, your statement that the room was shut because it was full due to legal concerns is a half-statement. It should be no less a legal issue that the place that was chosen by necessity shut out members, and that no other provision was made for members to vote, once they had been shut out. If the club knew that the tennis centre was the correct size, it beggars belief that they would end up at Dallas Brooks Hall.

Had Hawthorn not "saved us", to me Ridley would be the greatest villain in the history of what would be the now-defunct Melbourne Football Club. That may be unfair, but hey, it's my opinion.

[Choko 493]

Well Jarka so what I said did didnt take place. Well me harty it certainly DID.

my name is Dennis Jordan and I live in Pakenham so look it up and come round and tell me I am a liar. Oh also tell my wife she was next to me.

If you cant make it all this way out I will be sitting at the G at 52k2 and my wife will be next to me at 52k3. Any home game will do as we go to them all.

I didnt suggest anything I only stated what I knew to be a FACT because I was the person involved, also You are right as I couldnt hear mr ridley as he didnt answer MY question.

I was standing at the microphone in the centre isle I suppose about a dozen rows from the stage.

OH JARKA what is your real name and where do you sit at the G.

You want to see who I am COME ON DOWN and call me a liar.

.

I actually remember your question. I have a hazy memory that you didn't get an answer, but I do remember the howling and Mr Ridley having trouble hearing.

[640MD 3,570]

16 years on this matter still raises passion, It should never have been a proposition.

Hawthorn are a proud club, so are we, it would have diluted both camps.

Not Melbourne not Hawthorn,

A new club but not the one I followed since 1955.. Bloody glad Hawthorn voted against,

I was devastated that we voted to merge,...still pisses me off !

[Jarka 767]

Well Jarka so what I said did didnt take place. Well me harty it certainly DID.

my name is Dennis Jordan and I live in Pakenham so look it up and come round and tell me I am a liar. Oh also tell my wife she was next to me.

If you cant make it all this way out I will be sitting at the G at 52k2 and my wife will be next to me at 52k3. Any home game will do as we go to them all.

I didnt suggest anything I only stated what I knew to be a FACT because I was the person involved, also You are right as I couldnt hear mr ridley as he didnt answer MY question.

I was standing at the microphone in the centre isle I suppose about a dozen rows from the stage.

OH JARKA what is your real name and where do you sit at the G.

You want to see who I am COME ON DOWN and call me a liar.

.

I was there and I remember the first question and the response from the 'mob'. If you want to twist your memory to suit your personal vendetta against Ridley then that's your decision but don't make false public accusations. What you said is incorrect, Ridley did not do what you accused him of doing, you've either remembered it wrong or it's a blantant lie. Ridley never at any stage simply ignored a query or a statement from the floor that came via the mike.

By the way, you're about the 10th person I've come across who claims ti 'have asked the first question' on that night and it amuses me that you've created a new login for that post. Which is your regular username?

Well, I haven't read Ridley's book, but if what Vanlo says is correct and Ridley claims in his book that only non-members were locked out, then Ridley is simply lying. Like No Merger, I saw when the line got cut off, and I remember people waving their memberships and shouting out anti-merger slogans. It was a disgraceful act towards members, in whose name the board was acting.

And Jarka, your statement that the room was shut because it was full due to legal concerns is a half-statement. It should be no less a legal issue that the place that was chosen by necessity shut out members, and that no other provision was made for members to vote, once they had been shut out. If the club knew that the tennis centre was the correct size, it beggars belief that they would end up at Dallas Brooks Hall.

Had Hawthorn not "saved us", to me Ridley would be the greatest villain in the history of what would be the now-defunct Melbourne Football Club. That may be unfair, but hey, it's my opinion.

Dallas Brooks Hall has a limit on how many people it can hold. This is a fact, and can very easily verified. You have no arguments from me regarding the choice of venue and allowing 'fair access' to all of the members, however that's a completely different argument and has nothing to do with my statement. I completely agree that the club did not do everything properly back then, from memory Guest being the source of many.

Edit: Choko, you're entitled to your opinion and I won't try to change it. My opinion is that Ridley made a terrible error in judgement but only because he didn't have all the facts about the future. I still believe that if the AFL now has the same policies as back then, then our club would no longer exist.

Edited June 14, 2012 by Jarka

[old dee 24,083]

I was there and I remember the first question and the response from the 'mob'. If you want to twist your memory to suit your personal vendetta against Ridley then that's your decision but don't make false public accusations. What you said is incorrect, Ridley did not do what you accused him of doing, you've either remembered it wrong or it's a blantant lie. Ridley never at any stage simply ignored a query or a statement from the floor that came via the mike.

By the way, you're about the 10th person I've come across who claims ti 'have asked the first question' on that night and it amuses me that you've created a new login for that post. Which is your regular username?

Dallas Brooks Hall has a limit on how many people it can hold. This is a fact, and can very easily verified. You have no arguments from me regarding the choice of venue and allowing 'fair access' to all of the members, however that's a completely different argument and has nothing to do with my statement. I completely agree that the club did not do everything properly back then, from memory Guest being the source of many.

Edit: Choko, you're entitled to your opinion and I won't try to change it. My opinion is that Ridley made a terrible error in judgement but only because he didn't have all the facts about the future. I still believe that if the AFL now has the same policies as back then, then our club would no longer exist.

I agree Jarka hindsight is a wonderful thing.

The AFL in those days was pushing for mergers, it was prepared to give $6 miilion to get one up.

The alternative was no help from the AFL and existinction.

Both Hawthorn and Melbourne were very concerned that the latter would happen to their clubs.

So both commenced talking.

The rest is history.

It ended up being like the American civil war. the two sides of merge or not will take their anger to the grave.

150 years after the American civil war there are still diversions, I suspect there will be at the MFC until those involved are dead and buried.

As you can see in this thread the anger is alive and well, it just needs a little prod to fire it up again.

Edited June 14, 2012 by old dee

[Guest no merger]

Well jarka you said I hid behind a name well dont we all on the site , I asume your full name isnt jarka! you wanted me to come clean and not only did I tell you my REAL name and address but where and when I will be at the G. I came clean what do you have to hide?

Be a man do what you want others to do. I dont care if you have met at least a dozen saying the same thing. Because that is only here say, the difference between you and me is I KNOW I was the first as I wouldnt sit down until I was recognised.

My previous names on this site are 52k2 and ex52k2. I changed to this as one involved a email change and the other was me stuffing up my password and not being a computer wiz like you bill gates I took the easiest way out and rejoined when I saw this issue raise its ugly head again.

ps I will still be waiting for you at the G. To make it easier I am the grey haired old bugger wearing the number13 jumper.

[640MD 3,570]

Well jarka you said I hid behind a name well dont we all on the site , I asume your full name isnt jarka! you wanted me to come clean and not only did I tell you my REAL name and address but where and when I will be at the G. I came clean what do you have to hide?

Be a man do what you want others to do. I dont care if you have met at least a dozen saying the same thing. Because that is only here say, the difference between you and me is I KNOW I was the first as I wouldnt sit down until I was recognised.

My previous names on this site are 52k2 and ex52k2. I changed to this as one involved a email change and the other was me stuffing up my password and not being a computer wiz like you bill gates I took the easiest way out and rejoined when I saw this issue raise its ugly head again.

ps I will still be waiting for you at the G. To make it easier I am the grey haired old bugger wearing the number13 jumper.

If I could I for one would come and watch the footy with you.

Grey hair as well but no jumper ! good on ya !

Go Dees

[Dr. Gonzo 24,468]

This is an ugly period in our history but it was now 16 years ago - hopefully we can all acknowledge that both sides were trying to do what they thought was right for the MFC and move forward as a united club as we all know the club needs all the support it can get.

[Nasher 33,686]

I've permanently banned "no merger" and PM'ed his other alias. I'll leave it to him to out himself if he wants.

[Jarka 767]

I've permanently banned "no merger" and PM'ed his other alias. I'll leave it to him to out himself if he wants.

My apologies for inflaming the discussion, I just couldn't let Tiger Ridley's rep be tarnished with nonsense.

[w00dy 146]

Well, I haven't read Ridley's book, but if what Vanlo says is correct and Ridley claims in his book that only non-members were locked out, then Ridley is simply lying. Like No Merger, I saw when the line got cut off, and I remember people waving their memberships and shouting out anti-merger slogans. It was a disgraceful act towards members, in whose name the board was acting.

And Jarka, your statement that the room was shut because it was full due to legal concerns is a half-statement. It should be no less a legal issue that the place that was chosen by necessity shut out members, and that no other provision was made for members to vote, once they had been shut out. If the club knew that the tennis centre was the correct size, it beggars belief that they would end up at Dallas Brooks Hall.

According to Tiger's book, on your first point, he himself didn't go outside and ensure that all members were allowed inside, he was informed (by MFC staff I assume) that all members that were eligible to vote and that had turned up, were allowed inside.

On your second point, and as I previously stated, I find the choice of venue curious. As I said they looked at Melbourne Park in the first instance, but then chose Dallas Brooks Hall. The rationale provided in the book as I remember it was that the greatest turnout for a vote had been 30% of eligible members, that Dallas Brooks Hall was designed to handle 50% of eligible members, but that around 70% had turned up to vote. But it still seems strange to initially look to such a large venue, but to then choose a venue that is far smaller.

For those on both sides of the debate, I recommend getting your hands on a copy of the book if you can, definitely worth reading and getting Tiger's perspective on things.

[Sir Why You Little 37,458]

The vote was a sham whichever way you look at it.

And i still love Tiger. But the merger situation stunk & still does.

[Red N Blue Society 165]

Not only do we need wins , we need flags and a few of them.

The only way to win over the kids "supporters for the future" is to have sustained success for the better part of a decade.

Then you have to wait another 10-15 years till these kids can earn an income and become members themselves.

Exactly Fork'em!

Its the only way...We must win a flag fast. All impressionable kids want to follow winning premiership teams...its what they see!...in the media...in the papers...on the net...on the Tv...AFL is freaking everywhere & the Demons need to grab these kids and say have a look at us! But the only way to do that is ON THE FIELD!

Winning Results!! Not rubbish efforts...even if we are rebuilding... half assed efforts and lopsided scorelines wont cut it for todays kids. They will jump ship to other teams if the Demons dont turn it around! Kids arent traditionalists anymore I believe and wont follow the Demons because our Dads did or family did..like me.Eventhough I wouldnt change this ever.

We must win them back. Hawthorn have 60k of members now...but they have had how many flags since i was born (76)..many....much like Essenscum also.

Flags....thats what its all about!

With the Dees in a really strong financial position to recruit during Free agency maybe... just maybe.. things will fall our way faster than we think it will atm and land another very big fish like Mitch C.

Whoever player wise fails to make it will be given the boot quickly under Mark Neelds regime so players will be moved out & in fast in order to find the next Stars to help us win the big one.

I pray it happens soon..its been so damn well long now..

[daisycutter 30,021]

How come this thread had 4 pages yesterday, yet today is only 3?

[old dee 24,083]

How come this thread had 4 pages yesterday, yet today is only 3?

DC see nasher comment no. 61 above I think that may explain it.

[old dee 24,083]

Exactly Fork'em!

Its the only way...We must win a flag fast. All impressionable kids want to follow winning premiership teams...its what they see!...in the media...in the papers...on the net...on the Tv...AFL is freaking everywhere & the Demons need to grab these kids and say have a look at us! But the only way to do that is ON THE FIELD!

Winning Results!! Not rubbish efforts...even if we are rebuilding... half assed efforts and lopsided scorelines wont cut it for todays kids. They will jump ship to other teams if the Demons dont turn it around! Kids arent traditionalists anymore I believe and wont follow the Demons because our Dads did or family did..like me.Eventhough I wouldnt change this ever.

We must win them back. Hawthorn have 60k of members now...but they have had how many flags since i was born (76)..many....much like Essenscum also.

Flags....thats what its all about!

With the Dees in a really strong financial position to recruit during Free agency maybe... just maybe.. things will fall our way faster than we think it will atm and land another very big fish like Mitch C.

Whoever player wise fails to make it will be given the boot quickly under Mark Neelds regime so players will be moved out & in fast in order to find the next Stars to help us win the big one.

I pray it happens soon..its been so damn well long now..

I agree with your basic premise TT we must improve fairly quickly.

However it is still not possible to change over large numbers of players quickly.

Where do you get replacements who are any better?

The best you can hope for is three or four a year..

Leaving out your first couple of draft picks who will probably always be kids who take time.

It will take 2 - 3 years to make substantial changes to our list

We are IMO in a similar position to where we were at the end of 2007.

Pray a few that do not look the goods at present show big improvements

[w00dy 146]

this topic still creates a lot of passion, even 15+ years after the event.

could you imagine what demonland would've been like if it existed in its current form in 1996? chaos...

[Supermercado 2,806]

Thread highlight was Dennis Jordan of Pakenham throwing in a random cheap-shot at Gillard. It was like a letter to the Herald Sun 50/50 column.

[daisycutter 30,021]

DC see nasher comment no. 61 above I think that may explain it.

I understand that but it doesn't "explain" anything

Maybe Nasher could give us a better explanation. I'm really curious.

[Fork 'em 7,052]

Its the only way...We must win a flag fast. All impressionable kids want to follow winning premiership teams...its what they see!...in the media...in the papers...on the net...on the Tv...AFL is freaking everywhere & the Demons need to grab these kids and say have a look at us! But the only way to do that is ON THE FIELD!

Winning Results!! Not rubbish efforts...even if we are rebuilding... half assed efforts and lopsided scorelines wont cut it for todays kids. They will jump ship to other teams if the Demons dont turn it around! Kids arent traditionalists anymore I believe and wont follow the Demons because our Dads did or family did..like me.Eventhough I wouldnt change this ever.

We must win them back. Hawthorn have 60k of members now...but they have had how many flags since i was born (76)..many....much like Essenscum also.

Flags....thats what its all about!

The battle is in the school ground.

Kids don't like copping crap cause their team is getting flogged week in week out.

They wanna be walking tall hanging the crap from where its safe ,in numbers from the top of the ladder.

I've got 2 brainwashed kids at a small country school of about 60-70 kids.

The only 2 that wear red and blue they are .

My oldest girl seems to accept her lot but the young fella would swap to Collingwood or Essendon this afternoon if I gave him the go ahead.

This of course just will not do.

Edited June 15, 2012 by Fork 'em

[daisycutter 30,021]

The battle is in the school ground.

Kids don't like copping crap cause their team is getting flogged week in week out.

They wanna be walking tall hanging the crap from where its safe ,in numbers from the top of the ladder.

Well then, if they can ban contact in the schoolyard, surely the next step would be to ban crap in the schoolyard

Problem solved

[Hip & Shoulder 64]

Build a bridge, everyone, and get over it!

Why are so many people intent on raking over what happened 16 years ago, with Ian Ridley in his grave and unable to defend himself. Sean Wight was on the Board of the Club when the merger was put forward and it's two weeks away from the anniversary of his death, too.

The future of our Club is what is important now. Not what happened 16 years ago.

We have to make sure the Club never finds itself in the position again where we were 16 years ago.

We've got the training facilities we lacked back in 1997 but what we're still lacking is members.

[Dee*ceiving 1,738]

Above all else this thread displays what the MFC really needs and that is passionate people driving them forward. Hang tough, encourage and support. We've made it through harder times than these.