On 30/05/2012 at 04:17, Bossdog said:

I don't see how changing the 'top' at this stage is going to change the win /loss ratio....All we need is a couple of wins and the whole depressing feeling around the club will pass....There will be posters that say 'I told you so.......' other will say 'We have only beaten so and so' Sacking the board and the CEO at this stage would be suicide....

I was not suggesting tonight.

Come the end of 2012 we need changes at the top.

This group has had their chance and failed miserably.

Move on fellas

  On 30/05/2012 at 04:35, bing181 said:

You're serious? The coaching appointments (getting Craig and Brown when a number of clubs were trying for them, pinching Misson etc.), including the development coaches for each line, Mitch Clark, clearing the debt, moving to new premises, the new sponsorships, Bentleigh club. Massive turnaround from where we were pre-Jimmy.

But that's OK, keep your head in the sand.

Pipefitter is right. Even after all the great things you mention, there have been no results.

What Jimmy & co did repair should never have been left to rot away in the first place.

  On 30/05/2012 at 04:02, old dee said:

The drastic action I was suggesting is at the top.

You know what? Sheahan probably knows a lot more than you and I put together about the working of the MFC.

So you're not prepared to acknowledge that the 'drastic action' at the club since 2011 has actually taken place with Schwab at the top? Who exactly was CEO then?

Journalists are not immune from bias. They often have opinions that are wrong. They are not immune from failing to check their sources, or asking unreliable sources.

I also doubt that Sheahan has much knowledge of what the football department is doing. He's just viewing immediate results like everybody else that's whingeing. For instance, what does "beef up the coaching panel with more successful people" mean? Exactly what are Neeld, Misson and Craig? Sheahan's statement is either dead ignorant, or just a cheap and slack euphemism for "sack the coach and put in Malthouse".

  On 29/05/2012 at 23:54, Oucher said:

.... thats the only bit you could respond to? Seriously?

No it's all I had time to respond to before heading out. You can't equate Chris Newman with the CEO of a football club, it's not like for like. He doesn't make the key decisions that effect the overall health of a club.

Some people make a good argument for Cam Schwab some against, all I know is that a rebuild has come unstuck and I'm not sure I want the same people in charge when it looks like we are rebuilding again.

Mike Sheahan thinks we need to look at the admin side of the club and given what happened over the last couple of years I think we should. Neeld shouldn't have to cop all the flack, he has been at the club for how long now? 8 - 9 months.

  On 30/05/2012 at 04:32, why you little said:

All i ask is...Are they the best people available to do the job? Because right now we need the best. Not the nicest or the biggest MFC supporters. But we need the best business brains available to turn this wounded old beast around, and we need them soon.

And who do you suggest?????(Also see Bings comment)

  On 30/05/2012 at 04:40, old dee said:

I was not suggesting tonight.

Come the end of 2012 we need changes at the top.

This group has had their chance and failed miserably.

Move on fellas

Well if we are being realistic, I guess it is time to mention that the people who will make that decision is not us here on Land or any journalist - but those on the board.

And if Mike Sheahan is 'probably in the know' then the board would be too...

We will see in October.

  On 30/05/2012 at 04:47, Bossdog said:

And who do you suggest?????(Also see Bings comment)

Who is available? Can we improve what we already have...i am not aware of candidates. I am just putting the question out there. As i have stated earlier. Since we had signed Energy Watch i have been concerned.

Which i see today we are seeking another $280,000 from in lost revenue. Polis owes close to $8mill so we will be lucky to see it.

Why do people want change for change sake?????

The club has never been in better financial position since I started to support them and going to games as a jurior member(1962)

Yet people want to sack the board and CEO because we aren't winning games

The basics of a FD has JUST been set up to provide future success but people want a result 4 years ago

And what happens if we are still not going well in 3 years time????....Do we then sack the board and the CEO again.??????

At least we have started to change and keep up with the modern world abet a bit late but at least we have started....

  On 30/05/2012 at 01:08, old dee said:

Spot on Hardtack

There are a sizable number of people on Demonland who constantly want to shoot the messenger.

No, just a sizable number who don't buy into the conspiracy theories and groundless criticism.

Since 186, the club has undertaken the most comprehensive change of personnel of any club - that I've ever known of anyway. Additionally, there have been comprehensive changes in how those personnel have been configured within the structure - which has also completely changed. This covers most of the FD, including the entire fitness staff, pretty well the entire coaching staff, and a number of other positions in the FD - people like BP and Ian Flack have gone, Mahoney and Connolly to different (and new) positions etc. etc. Let's not even forget that Bailey didn't have anyone as "overseer" - whereas we now have an experienced and respected football person in that role in Neil Craig - nor that the assistants didn't have their own assistants, not to mention their own IT people. etc. etc.

If we'd just sat on our hands, or tinkered round the edges after 186 I could perhaps accept some of what you, Hardtack etc. etc. say. But all I see off-field is a proactive CEO and board, prepared to do whatever it takes to move the club forward and to take big steps to address our off-field shortcomings, especially in the FD.

Football is a sport, but at an elite level, it's technical, sophisticated, complicated even. Tiny advantages in, for example, recovery can make a huge (and I mean huge) difference on-field. And they do, and they will, and that's what we're seeing now. The rebuild of players started a few years back. But the rebuild of the FD and all that goes with it, has only just started. We could never have been successful with the FD we had, it's as simple as that.

  On 30/05/2012 at 05:01, Bossdog said:

Why do people want change for change sake?????

The club has never been in better financial position since I started to support them and going to games as a jurior member(1962)

Yet people want to sack the board and CEO because we aren't winning games

The basics of a FD has JUST been set up to provide future success but people want a result 4 years ago

And what happens if we are still not going well in 3 years time????....Do we then sack the board and the CEO again.??????

At least we have started to change and keep up with the modern world abet a bit late but at least we have started....

Boss it is not about a timeframe. It is about getting the best people to do the job we need.

Which is a big job.

  On 30/05/2012 at 04:59, why you little said:

Who is available? Can we improve what we already have...i am not aware of candidates. I am just putting the question out there. As i have stated earlier. Since we had signed Energy Watch i have been concerned.

Which i see today we are seeking another $280,000 from in lost revenue. Polis owes close to $8mill so we will be lucky to see it.

So that's 2 new sponsers and a contracted $280,000 owed????

Is that right....So much more money being injected into the club than 4 years ago.....

Many clubs have had sponsers who have gone by the wayside for varied reasons

  On 30/05/2012 at 05:06, why you little said:

Boss it is not about a timeframe. It is about getting the best people to do the job we need.

Which is a big job.

Sorry Mate....but how do you know that the people we have now are not the 'best people'???????

  On 30/05/2012 at 05:09, Bossdog said:

So that's 2 new sponsers and a contracted $280,000 owed????

Is that right....So much more money being injected into the club than 4 years ago.....

Many clubs have had sponsers who have gone by the wayside for varied reasons

4 years ago we had no budget to spend. It is a disgrace how this club was allowed to live in the amateur ranks for so long. I thank those on the Gardner & Stynes boards for turning a lot of off field problems around.

But Energy Watch i will continue to question as the only address i could find for the Head Office was a Post Office Box number.

  On 30/05/2012 at 05:13, Bossdog said:

Sorry Mate....but how do you know that the people we have now are not the 'best people'???????

I don't, but we should always be asking.

Don't ever be complacent i say.

  On 30/05/2012 at 05:18, why you little said:

I don't, but we should always be asking.

Don't ever be complacent i say.

I shall ponder your thoughts while lying on a beach in Bali for the next 2 weeks....

  On 30/05/2012 at 05:20, Bossdog said:

I shall ponder your thoughts while lying on a beach in Bali for the next 2 weeks....

Haha. I will be in Asia in 4 weeks. Enjoy the HEAT...

  On 30/05/2012 at 04:44, rjay said:

No it's all I had time to respond to before heading out. You can't equate Chris Newman with the CEO of a football club, it's not like for like. He doesn't make the key decisions that effect the overall health of a club.

Some people make a good argument for Cam Schwab some against, all I know is that a rebuild has come unstuck and I'm not sure I want the same people in charge when it looks like we are rebuilding again.

Mike Sheahan thinks we need to look at the admin side of the club and given what happened over the last couple of years I think we should. Neeld shouldn't have to cop all the flack, he has been at the club for how long now? 8 - 9 months.

I can buy the argument that the rebuild has come unstuck, I can even buy the argument that the CEO plays a part in finding the coach and employing the people in the football department. I don't even have a problem saying that the CEO and Chairman do have some part to play in the failures that have occured leading up to and including '186', but if I am reading some people right (and probably not referring explicitly to you rjay) but people want to replace Schwab ... and some want McLardy gone (which potentially would be a spill of several board positions) because they have some an involvement in what has occured in the events surrounding '186'.

If that were the case we are talking about almost every single significant position in this football club being turned over in the space of a year or so.

We have completely rebuilt the football department (but thats not enough) our medicos, physios, recruiters etc all new) but heck thats not enough now people want to rip out the CEO and possibly the Chairman of the club and think that it will all be ok, because new = shiny and that means better!

Stability off the field at this point is the best thing for our club ON field with the year we are having. That does not mean everyone there is perfect, and blameless, but really think about what you are suggesting and the impact it might have to the club.

It is interesting how people view a football club. Stone broke but doing well on the field, to many that is great. Getting strong financially, securing the future of the club, but struggling on the field, many see that as a total failure.

I see it as follows, we have gone from a basket case off the field to a strong club, with assets, a new state of the art training base, a satellite training ground in a growing community, debt free, revamped football and coaching department and stable board.

On the ground under a new Coach we are struggling with an overrated list that is being asked to play and train a new way. The light at the end of the tunnel is a strong drafting position at years end, ability to chase a player, certainty of one good new player JV, ability to do some trading and overall revamp the list and another hard pre season to get the list fitter. Players who are not good enough will be gone, that appears certain.

Ok off the ground and poor on it with the chance to completely turn it around.

Not a fantastic position but could be far worse and still room for optimism for the future.

I won't be slashing my wrists for a while yet. I will give Neeld and Craig time to turn it around.

  On 30/05/2012 at 05:34, Redleg said:

It is interesting how people view a football club. Stone broke but doing well on the field, to many that is great. Getting strong financially, securing the future of the club, but struggling on the field, many see that as a total failure.

I see it as follows, we have gone from a basket case off the field to a strong club, with assets, a new state of the art training base, a satellite training ground in a growing community, debt free, revamped football and coaching department and stable board.

On the ground under a new Coach we are struggling with an overrated list that is being asked to play and train a new way. The light at the end of the tunnel is a strong drafting position at years end, ability to chase a player, certainty of one good new player JV, ability to do some trading and overall revamp the list and another hard pre season to get the list fitter. Players who are not good enough will be gone, that appears certain.

Ok off the ground and poor on it with the chance to completely turn it around.

Not a fantastic position but could be far worse and still room for optimism for the future.

I won't be slashing my wrists for a while yet. I will give Neeld and Craig time to turn it around.

Yes, we are the best kind of basket case...

  On 30/05/2012 at 05:20, Bossdog said:

I shall ponder your thoughts while lying on a beach in Bali for the next 2 weeks....

Just don't go near any sports bars on weekends.

  On 30/05/2012 at 05:34, Redleg said:

It is interesting how people view a football club. Stone broke but doing well on the field, to many that is great. Getting strong financially, securing the future of the club, but struggling on the field, many see that as a total failure.

I see it as follows, we have gone from a basket case off the field to a strong club, with assets, a new state of the art training base, a satellite training ground in a growing community, debt free, revamped football and coaching department and stable board.

So, so true Redleg. Thank you for a bringing a bit of sense to the dialogue.

I have said it before but Melbourne has largely been a complete basket case off the field for much of the last 45 years and this is the key problem at the club. Effective governance underpins any successful organisation. Our woeful on field performance for much of that time is merely the manifestation of the off field chaos, division and petty politics that has longed defined our board and footy admin teams (hopefully no longer though).

Until we get the off field stuff right forget the on field stuff. The focus is often on the CEO but again governance is the key and the buck stops with the board. Things seem to me be much better in that regard and off field things are on the improve in terms of football department spend, facilities etc etc. Root and branch re build is the only way if we want to turn around a ship that ran aground decades ago

  On 30/05/2012 at 05:34, Redleg said:

It is interesting how people view a football club. Stone broke but doing well on the field, to many that is great. Getting strong financially, securing the future of the club, but struggling on the field, many see that as a total failure.

I see it as follows, we have gone from a basket case off the field to a strong club, with assets, a new state of the art training base, a satellite training ground in a growing community, debt free, revamped football and coaching department and stable board.

On the ground under a new Coach we are struggling with an overrated list that is being asked to play and train a new way. The light at the end of the tunnel is a strong drafting position at years end, ability to chase a player, certainty of one good new player JV, ability to do some trading and overall revamp the list and another hard pre season to get the list fitter. Players who are not good enough will be gone, that appears certain.

Ok off the ground and poor on it with the chance to completely turn it around.

Not a fantastic position but could be far worse and still room for optimism for the future.

I won't be slashing my wrists for a while yet. I will give Neeld and Craig time to turn it around.

"we are struggling with an overrated list" Yes, But why?

  On 30/05/2012 at 05:57, binman said:

Root and branch rebuild is the only way if we want to turn around a ship that ran aground decades ago

Some people aren't happy that the tree has got stronger roots, and buds may be just forming. They want showy flowers, and they want them now, out of season. So they want to chop it down and plant another one, again.

  On 30/05/2012 at 04:35, bing181 said:

You're serious? The coaching appointments (getting Craig and Brown when a number of clubs were trying for them, pinching Misson etc.), including the development coaches for each line, Mitch Clark, clearing the debt, moving to new premises, the new sponsorships, Bentleigh club. Massive turnaround from where we were pre-Jimmy.

But that's OK, keep your head in the sand.

0-9.

  On 30/05/2012 at 06:08, Pipefitter said:

0-9.

And probably 0 and 11.

But is it a symptom of what's wrong or a side-effect of the change for the better?

I think that is the crux of the argument and I believe the latter.

We won't win a game by firing Schwab, so we can wait until the end of season to make that decision.