I am confident that Jack will become the best footballer Jack Watts can be because I actually believe in this coachiing group's philosophy to development.

But having seen quite a bit of the pre-season I understand why.

Whilst i tend to agree with most of what you say I really think you should get something better to do over summer.

Already some supporters are making the excuse that he's only 21, so I guess they have low expectations for this year.

There are only excuses, if there's a problem. For myself, I don't see a problem, so the question of excuses or not doesn't come into it.

Similarly, as I don't really have any expectations regarding Jack at this early stage of his career, I can't be said to have low expectations.

A mate of mine was at an REIV breakfast this morning where Malthouse was a speaker. Apparently not a great one either. Was all over the place.

Seems that most of his talk was critical of Melb – our game plan, that we won’t be successful for 5 years, to of course, everyone’s favourite punching bag at the moment – Jack Watts.

Seems that in the past few days Jack has come to Mick and asked him to be his mentor. Seems odd that he’d go to Malthouse, also odd that there’s nobody at the club who could do it.

Surely Mick is just [censored] off that we got Neeld right when they needed him most, and may have contributed at least in part at him / them missing out on a flag. And doesn't that feel good - some consolation for the annus horribilus that was 2011.

I actually suggested that there's grey between your assessment and the simplistic view that the alternative to yourself is the happy clapping, strawberry fields Demonland supporter. I'm a debating coach and the first thing I tell my debaters is to take an extreme stance and to distance yourself from the opposition as much as you can. That's exactly what you're doing. That's what makes you a good debater but it doesn't necessarily mean you're accurately summarizing the views of people here. You're suggesting that Watts has critical issues in his game and that the alternative view is that he doesn't and he'll be right in the end. It's not that simple as you've shown yourself by suggesting with a softened view that you believe that the penny will drop and I've shown by acknowledging that I'm disappointed with his unwillingness to assert himself in contested situations. There's your grey.

I think most on here share your concerns. Just because one supporter gets a little excited and makes a Brownlow comparison (which I think was unfairly criticized and taken out of context) after his Casey performance doesn't mean that the vast majority of us are putting our heads in the sand and failing to see his flaws.

When you make statements like, "I know that 26 disposals and a couple of goals from a wing/half forward will excite nearly every Melbourne supporter", you're setting this up in a Rono-style us versus them argument - the chest beating realists versus the rose-coloured glasses-wearing optimists.

You're right, it is a chat forum and of course you're entitled to share a differing view. I just think you regularly choose to stereotype and pigeon-hole those with a very slightly different view to your own to create the impression that there is a huge chasm between you and everyone else.

I've always loved reading your contributions and know that you've spent an enormous amount of time defending Jack over his first two and half season over on bigfooty. You've given opposition supporters heaps and Jack hasn't always backed you up and I completely understand your disappointment. I certainly hope, when you suggest that the penny will drop that you're right. The alternative, I'm afraid, is another decade of mediocrity.

Jeez, Timmy would like this. But I can't see his name. Maybe he's updating his couch.

Fair enough. I'll leave it there, but I'd like to point out that there are degrees of everything, so when you point out the "grey" even that's too simplistic. There are many more shades of white on here when it comes to Watts than there are grey. If there was a bit more grey you'd hardly hear from me.

There are only excuses, if there's a problem. For myself, I don't see a problem, so the question of excuses or not doesn't come into it.

That's pretty white. You're not looking hard enough. Jack skirts the contest.

Whilst i tend to agree with most of what you say I really think you should get something better to do over summer.

NO NO NO

B-H while I dont agree with everything you say I do enjoy all of it and appreciate your passion

Keep watching. Keep having an opinion.

Hopefully we will all be satisfied.

That's pretty white. You're not looking hard enough. Jack skirts the contest.

I'd be a bit more greyer - Jack picks his battle. I have seen Jack Watts go hard. I have not seen him attack ever contest like Jeremy Howe, who does not choose his battles - Howe only knows one way.

Flip flopping - I saw an improvement last year to the year before - I want to see improvement in this area again

I think when Neeld arrived at the club he would have gone through the list and recognised that our player policies prior to his arrival led to some players being played at AFL level prior to doing their apprenticeship in the reserves. By bringing in Clarke, Magner, Couch and Seller he has re-balanced our list and enabled players like Cook, McDonald, Gysberts and next years crop of draftees to be developed and built up at Casey before throwing them into the main team.

Did Jack Watts' development as a player suffer because he was blooded too early and had to play against men before he was one himself? I think, undoubtedly. Time has moved on, Jack should be ready now, he's bigger, wiser and seasoned... This year he will unlearn the techniques and mindset he adopted to survive physically against men and start to impose himself, and when he does...

Go Jack Watts

Go Dees

Jeez, Timmy would like this. But I can't see his name. Maybe he's updating his couch.

Fair enough. I'll leave it there, but I'd like to point out that there are degrees of everything, so when you point out the "grey" even that's too simplistic. There are many more shades of white on here when it comes to Watts than there are grey. If there was a bit more grey you'd hardly hear from me.

I think it was great stuff and I wish I had the patience and eloquence to match it.

Nice to know you still think about me. I knew you still held a candle!

As for Watts, perhaps a family therapy perspective would be useful (you mentionned the couch). In family therapy - particularly when working in a 'systems' approach, you often see kids and their parents. The beginning perspective you bring is that the child does not 'have a problem' but the "symptoms" the child demonstrates are a result of a dysfunctional system. The child is the "symptom bearer" - the whole family system is the problem and as a result need the attention.

I reckon that you could argue that Watts, as the 'child' in the system, has: had permissive coaching in a team with inconsistent rules; older players who do not set a good example; players who are not good; is a young forward in a team with one of the worst - if not the worst- midfield in the comp; no aggressive forwards around him and on-field leaders who don't lead that well. We then expect him to be the A+ student. I think it is a reasonable hypothesis to hold that he might well improve if his "family" has better boundaries, rules and rewards, his siblings were more mature and their competence improves. Then we might see more of the attitudes and behaviours we need to - at least it gives him a fighting chance to show them. That said, he needs to show them and they need to be more than a flicker every fortnight.

I'd be a bit more greyer - Jack picks his battle. I have seen Jack Watts go hard. I have not seen him attack ever contest like Jeremy Howe, who does not choose his battles - Howe only knows one way.

Flip flopping - I saw an improvement last year to the year before - I want to see improvement in this area again

I think that sounds about right. I'd add to it: I've never seen him attack it like Howe (or Trengove, or a raft of others), but I've also never seen him genuinely poo his pants like at least two of the players I'll expect to play this week either. That's probably part of what gives me hope that his "situation" is salvageable.

I think that sounds about right. I'd add to it: I've never seen him attack it like Howe (or Trengove, or a raft of others), but I've also never seen him genuinely poo his pants like at least two of the players I'll expect to play this week either. That's probably part of what gives me hope that his "situation" is salvageable.

What old55 said about "skirting" the contest is pretty right to me, it's not that he shirks.

That's probably part of what gives me hope that his "situation" is salvageable.

I like to think of it as a work in progress.

What old55 said about "skirting" the contest is pretty right to me, it's not that he shirks.

Are you shirking if you don't make a contest you should, or if you make it look like you can't quite ? He's very good at just not getting to quite a lot.

Missed by that much ...

I think it was great stuff and I wish I had the patience and eloquence to match it.

Nice to know you still think about me. I knew you still held a candle!

It's hard not to, as you bob up whenever I post.

That's one of the main differences between you and me, Timbo. I'll applaud a post without feeling a need to reference who wrote it before deciding. And I don't feel an overwhelming need to congratulate a post dependent upon the intended recipient. It's the content that matters to me.

That said, well said.

How many Billy's are out there ? Do people really think Watts wasn't drafted as a key forward ? Extraordinary.

Comments from Mark Neeld:

"MELBOURNE coach Mark Neeld has told the club's remaining No. 1 draft pick, Jack Watts, that he will be played as a forward this year alongside recruit Mitch Clark.

''My plan is to play Jack Watts forward,'' Neeld said. ''When he was drafted he was certainly drafted as a key position prospect."

I'll have to let Neeld know he's off his tree.

When we drafted Watts he was playing as a key forward for Vic Metro and Brighton Grammar. Being 196cms does anyone think there was a chance Melbourne drafted him as a key forward ? Some comments on here beggar belief.

I believe that JW was firstly drafted because he was the "best available" choice (as majority of commentators agreed)

Then secondly as a consequence of that then yes the club assumed that he would be a key forward (reasonable assumption for a 17yo 196cm TAC State forward)

But the REASON he was drafted was as 'best available'

I believe that JW was firstly drafted because he was the "best available" choice (as majority of commentators agreed)

Then secondly as a consequence of that then yes the club assumed that he would be a key forward (reasonable assumption for a 17yo 196cm TAC State forward)

But the REASON he was drafted was as 'best available'

I disagree. There was need and speculation involved. Speculation I agreed with due to undoubted class.

Picked in the starting 18 (on a wing no less). As i said no doubt he'd be be picked, despite Neeld's apparent equivocation. Again i wonder if Neeld likes to play some mind games

I thought this was supposed to be a forum for 'supporters'. There are so many who do not support... they just want to tear down a 21-year-old before the season even starts. And perhaps those who sing the praises of Nic-Nat should take their 'support' to West Coast.

Do any of you think about how all the negative comments from so-called Demon supports could be affecting Watts?

I am not going to read another post about Jack Watts during the season. Let him listen to his coaches, continue to learn and improve throughout the season and judge him at the end of September.

I thought this was supposed to be a forum for 'supporters'. There are so many who do not support... they just want to tear down a 21-year-old before the season even starts. And perhaps those who sing the praises of Nic-Nat should take their 'support' to West Coast.

Do any of you think about how all the negative comments from so-called Demon supports could be affecting Watts?

I am not going to read another post about Jack Watts during the season. Let him listen to his coaches, continue to learn and improve throughout the season and judge him at the end of September.

Do you really belive he reads this crap???

I am setting up a big dinner table for those who knock JW .

First Course: Humble Pie

Second Course:Your own words

Dessert: Just

I thought this was supposed to be a forum for 'supporters'. There are so many who do not support... they just want to tear down a 21-year-old before the season even starts. And perhaps those who sing the praises of Nic-Nat should take their 'support' to West Coast.

Do any of you think about how all the negative comments from so-called Demon supports could be affecting Watts?

I am not going to read another post about Jack Watts during the season. Let him listen to his coaches, continue to learn and improve throughout the season and judge him at the end of September.

You're right. Let's keep them in cotton wool and all will be well.

I'll call it as I see it.

Watts picked on the wing in game 1??

Maybe Neeld likes to play mind games with the supporters too.

I am setting up a big dinner table for those who knock JW .

First Course: Humble Pie

Second Course:Your own words

Dessert: Just

This approach amuses me Biff.

We all want to see Jack get better. Jack wants to see Jack get better. If Jack becomes the good player we hope he becomes then we will all celebrate the fact that he has worked on those areas of his game that needed improving and started to get the best from himself.

Surely we can evaluate his game as spectators and make judgements on those things he needs to improve on. I can't see anyone (maybe one) who has drawn a line through his name. I wish I could bump the thread that I started over 2 years ago that suggested that Jack was not willing himself to the place where the footy was. I was jumped all over for making a simple observation. There is a lot of hyper-sensitivity about Jack Watts.

Neeld's approach is right, he is just a 20 year old kid that is working on his game, no more, no less at this stage.

Watts picked on the wing in game 1??

Maybe Neeld likes to play mind games with the supporters too.

there are a number of really good key forwards who have either started their life on the wing or had spells there.

Michael Roach, Paul Roos, Richo.

One of the greatest full forwards I have seen ( Dunstall) started in the back pocket.

If JW tears it up in the midfield, wing, backline or where ever I am not going to say "but he is meant to be a key forward".

I am looking for Jack to make visible improvements on last year. What position he does that, I dont really care.