2 key points I think.

Whatever mistakes Neeld made initially, he has inherited a fundamentally poor list, which includes some with extremely poor attitude.

The list reflects years of poor recruiting, particularly over the Bailey / Prendergast era where too many lightly framed players (athletes ?) were recruited with high picks.

Way too early to judge Neeld IMO, but hell, we need a win..

I don't get this talk of recruiting athletes to the club. I know that recruiting has been and remains a big issue but where are these athletes, we are the slowest, least athletic team in the competition.

I don't get this talk of recruiting athletes to the club. I know that recruiting has been and remains a big issue but where are these athletes, we are the slowest, least athletic team in the competition.

Know what you mean, but I can't help thinking about the wins over Sydney and the Dons - we looked like greased lightening - our players weren't running faster - out ball movement made us look fast

So over my team being belted in the media every day.

So over my team being belted in the media every day.

Me too PaulRB but it is of own making.

I have read the Sheahan article and I can find little to complain about.

We have had one positive story in the last couple of years and that is the debt reduction.

The rest is poor performance by the team and or administration.

The vast majority of what is being reported is IMO close to the truth.

There is a simple way to stop it.

Starting winning a few games.

Until then we just have to ignore it.

Did you tell us anything new Mike??

Nope.

Typical....you have always re written what Caroline Wilson has said 2 days later.

Why bother Mike....leave it alone, an in depth interview with Cameron Schwab...now that would be worth your while to come out of retirement for.

The bottom line of mike's article is why 4 year's into a 5 year rebuild are we starting again we have all been very patient.

Every little thing that come before neeld has been thrown out,like our attacking football which we were good at and why have all the older player's been thrown to the scrap heap if it was a clean slate.

Im happy to back neeld for the next 3 years but god it's hard to watch this side this year at least there was some feeling of hope lastyear now there is a clear feeling of how much will we lose by this week and i go every week and will keep going everyweek because i love Melbourne.

It's very clear all melbourne fan's are scratching there head's thinking what went wrong?

The only thing to look forward to at the moment is the draft and getting all the player's that have no balls out this club asap.

2012 was another year of were looking great in the pre season it's the best we have trained but the truth is we are worse then we have ever been.

The good is that we have names like Jones,Grimes,Trengrove,Frawley,Howe and Clark who we can move forward with as for the rest of the player's i will be watching to see who want's to be part of something special going forward. If you want to keep sooking and trying when it's good by you do it in any other AFL jumper not in the red and blue because we have no more spots for weak heartless player's.

Time to wake up.

GROW SOME BALLS YOUR MEN NOT BOYS

His most fundamental point is correct. We are back to square one. Our list is arguably the worst in the AFL. This is on the 'strength' of having prime draft picks for 5 years.

His most fundamental point is correct. We are back to square one. Our list is arguably the worst in the AFL. This is on the 'strength' of having prime draft picks for 5 years.

But we already knew that....Find out why it was allowed to happen.

Just read the article.

I don't know why I would have expected any less, but like previous posters have mentioned, there's nothing new.

I wonder whether journalists these days are like a majority of rioters/looters/angry mob. They're not sure why they're angry or why they're there, but everyone else is doing it so they should too. Some sort of pack mentality.

The bottom line of mike's artical is why 4 year's into a 5 year rebuild are we starting again we have all been very patient

If that's what you and others have taken from it and you believe his emotional rant, good for you - but Mike doesn't quite see the forest from the trees. He doesn't quite see the real picture. Change takes time, it doesn't occur overnight. Neither does improving a poor midfield, and learning a new gameplan.

The club is not starting another rebuild, it's a continuation rebuild albeit with a stealy focus on becoming the best. It's not essentially about wins and losses in the short term. Referring to last years 8.5 wins is lazy and short sighted. And for the record 2011 was hardly an improvement on 2010.

The club has many young players already on its list, and the club will be adding more come years end.

Whilst the results aren't what the short sighted want, have the foresight that Mark Neeld and team are hell bent on instilling some steel and physicality into the development of the players. Setting a new culture.

If that's what you and others have taken from it and you believe his emotional rant, good for you - but Mike doesn't quite see the forest from the trees. He doesn't quite see the real picture. Change takes time, it doesn't occur overnight. Neither does improving a poor midfield, and learning a new gameplan.

The club is not starting another rebuild, it's a continuation rebuild albeit with a stealy focus on becoming the best. It's not essentially about wins and losses in the short term. Referring to last years 8.5 wins is lazy and short sighted. And for the record 2011 was hardly an improvement on 2010.

The club has many young players already on its list, and the club will be adding more come years end.

Whilst the results aren't what the short sighted want, have the foresight that Mark Neeld and team are hell bent on instilling some steel and physicality into the development of the players. Setting a new culture.

H_T I think that line ruins your whole comment.

It is hardly short sighted to be expecting more than Last with no wins and an average loosing margin of 10+ goals

After 4.5 years of rebuilding.

Sorry, but you are saying that after 4.5 years we are behind where we were at the end of 2007.

By any measure that is abject failure.

I do not believe it is short sighted to be expecting more

His most fundamental point is correct. We are back to square one. Our list is arguably the worst in the AFL. This is on the 'strength' of having prime draft picks for 5 years.

I think you've nailed it. We have overlooked "grunt" in our recruiting philosophy when we have had first round picks. Short term remedy this year was Clark, Magner & Couch ( haven't yet had the chance to see Taggart & Tynan). But we need more presence. I had thought this would come from the likes of Maloney & Sylvia, so far, unfortunately not ..

So over my team being belted in the media every day.

Posts like this irritate me.

The media's role is to scrutinise. If the club gave nothing to the media, the media would have nothing. You all cry and winge now, but when it's another team you all lap it up and start discussion threads about why that club is so bad. But when it's your own, you point the finger at the media for making something out of nothing, when clearly something is there.

The problem is that, going by H_T's posts, suggesting that the club is struggling because it is young and because this is a "rebuild" is chicken feed considering the effort that's actually being executed by older players, that aren't actually bad players. That's indicative of the club, and instead of criticising the media for highlighting the faults and passing opinion, as they have a right (and obligation to) as part of a free press, we should be asking why such media coverage exists in the first place.

The hostility towards media these days truly is pathetic and cowardly. People refusing to ask WHY the coverage exists in the first place.

So much hate towards journalists here. Should we cut out subjective criticism all together?

Just read the article.

I don't know why I would have expected any less, but like previous posters have mentioned, there's nothing new.

I wonder whether journalists these days are like a majority of rioters/looters/angry mob. They're not sure why they're angry or why they're there, but everyone else is doing it so they should too. Some sort of pack mentality.

Shocker Mike.

I actually hoped that he was coming out of retirement because he had something new and insightful to say .............. how naive if me. Same old beat up - with perhaps an extra pointed dig at Gary Lyon thrown. No wonder you retired Mike - tired worn out repetitive journalism.

Should Caro have a go at Mike for his blatent plagerism

Posts like this irritate me.

The media's role is to scrutinise. If the club gave nothing to the media, the media would have nothing. You all cry and winge now, but when it's another team you all lap it up and start discussion threads about why that club is so bad. But when it's your own, you point the finger at the media for making something out of nothing, when clearly something is there.

The problem is that, going by H_T's posts, suggesting that the club is struggling because it is young and because this is a "rebuild" is chicken feed considering the effort that's actually being executed by older players, that aren't actually bad players. That's indicative of the club, and instead of criticising the media for highlighting the faults and passing opinion, as they have a right (and obligation to) as part of a free press, we should be asking why such media coverage exists in the first place.

The hostility towards media these days truly is pathetic and cowardly. People refusing to ask WHY the coverage exists in the first place.

So much hate towards journalists here. Should we cut out subjective criticism all together?

A voice of reason, thank you Cudi agree 100%

Posts like this irritate me.

The media's role is to scrutinise. If the club gave nothing to the media, the media would have nothing. You all cry and winge now, but when it's another team you all lap it up and start discussion threads about why that club is so bad. But when it's your own, you point the finger at the media for making something out of nothing, when clearly something is there.

The problem is that, going by H_T's posts, suggesting that the club is struggling because it is young and because this is a "rebuild" is chicken feed considering the effort that's actually being executed by older players, that aren't actually bad players. That's indicative of the club, and instead of criticising the media for highlighting the faults and passing opinion, as they have a right (and obligation to) as part of a free press, we should be asking why such media coverage exists in the first place.

The hostility towards media these days truly is pathetic and cowardly. People refusing to ask WHY the coverage exists in the first place.

So much hate towards journalists here. Should we cut out subjective criticism all together?

I never said they were wrong, or the criticisms were not justified, or that I hate the media, blah blah blah as you've extrapolated. And it's obvious to anyone who can read the AFL Ladder that the MFC is crap at the moment.

My point is that, as a long term supporter with limited capacity to change the club myself, it hurts every time my teams failings and future are dissected and put in bold on the back pages of the various papers. Like a parent would whose son is making the news for all the wrong reasons it hurts, it's discouraging and depressing. And as a result I am sick of it...

H_T I think that line ruins your whole comment.

It is hardly short sighted to be expecting more than Last with no wins and an average loosing margin of 10+ goals

After 4.5 years of rebuilding.

Sorry, but you are saying that after 4.5 years we are behind where we were at the end of 2007.

By any measure that is abject failure.

I do not believe it is short sighted to be expecting more

Have another read old dee.

How you can decipher my post to say we're behind where we were at the end of 2007 is beyond me.

The greater picture with implemented changes is my point. Changing mindset and instructions takes time.

We can't keep playing a free wheeling style play with Jamar and Moloney beating the minnows and getting smashed by the superior teams. The defensive side of the game is paramount and they are learning it. Other areas will be added to their game and will release the "shackles"...

People are measuring the wins of yesteryear like the horrible year of 2011. There should be no real measurement as such except improvement and progress of the players under the new regime THIS year.

Posts like this irritate me.

The media's role is to scrutinise. If the club gave nothing to the media, the media would have nothing. You all cry and winge now, but when it's another team you all lap it up and start discussion threads about why that club is so bad. But when it's your own, you point the finger at the media for making something out of nothing, when clearly something is there.

The problem is that, going by H_T's posts, suggesting that the club is struggling because it is young and because this is a "rebuild" is chicken feed considering the effort that's actually being executed by older players, that aren't actually bad players. That's indicative of the club, and instead of criticising the media for highlighting the faults and passing opinion, as they have a right (and obligation to) as part of a free press, we should be asking why such media coverage exists in the first place.

The hostility towards media these days truly is pathetic and cowardly. People refusing to ask WHY the coverage exists in the first place.

So much hate towards journalists here. Should we cut out subjective criticism all together?

I agree to an extent, however I do have an issue with why the media seems to spend so much time and effort on negative stories. The best example of this I have seen this year was during our issues with our former sponsor, the front page of the major newspaper carried a headline of "Self Dee-struct" or something similar, harping on about how the situation at MFC is now dire, yet a very short time later when we secured a new major sponor, you had to go 8 or 10 pages in from the back to read about it. That just doesn't seem balanced to me.

The problem is that, going by H_T's posts, suggesting that the club is struggling because it is young and because this is a "rebuild" is chicken feed considering the effort that's actually being executed by older players, that aren't actually bad players. That's indicative of the club, and instead of criticising the media for highlighting the faults and passing opinion, as they have a right (and obligation to) as part of a free press, we should be asking why such media coverage exists in the first place.

There was no criticism of Mike on my behalf old chap.

My post centers on the need of a better understanding of the matter at hand.

Yes it is a young list, and yes we are continuing to build, a few of the older players are learning themselves, which would explain average performances.

Footy journalism is scraping the bottom of the barrel at the moment. Creates controversy all in the name of justifying its own existence. As someone else mentioned, they're like radio shock jocks trying to stir things up just to 'fill' their media space.

Sorry to self-promote, but the below link is to a blog post I wrote just last night on this very topic.

http://nah-seriously.blogspot.com.au/2012/05/footy-fourth-estate.html

My biggest problem with the media coverage is that it does not get to the bottom of the issue here.

Greg Denham at least pointed to it this morning on KB's program and I know he has cheap shots at us but even he said the article offered nothing new, a little like his article a week or so earlier that also offered nothing new. A caller, not a Melbourne supporter he said, laid blame for the clubs position with the CEO and his failure previously with this club and at others and now again at this club.

KB rightly pointed out that the admin can't get a kick but as Greg pointed out they are responsible for a lot that goes on at the club, particularly when they get their hands dirty with football department matters. This is a hard issue for KB and to his credit he hasn't put the boots in to Schwab who was part of the group that sacked him.

My personal belief is that Mark Neeld is coaching with one had tied behind his back and that we can't fully judge him unless the board takes action to clear the decks. We finished bottom 3 in 1999, after our CEO resigned the next year we played off in a Grand Final it maybe a conincidence but the 2nd & 3rd round draft picks we lost in 2000 are the senior players we so badly need now, players of the calibre of Hunt, Cassisi, Newman and Cross and that is not a coincidence.

http://demonwiki.org/1999

These articles would have been read before I'm sure and I know a lot of you don't have time for Pat Smith or Greg Denham. In my mind Pat is a top class journalist, he can be infuriating at times but he pretty much always has a considered opinion even if it is not mine. Greg I think takes to many cheap shots however the way our club has evolved lends itself to this. Even Malthouse has said the club has been involved with everything but football.

http://www.slatterymedia.com/uploads/store_items/kb---a-life-in-football/files/The_Australian_Wednesday_August_3.pdf

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/demons-boss-cameron-schwab-offered-as-a-sacrifice/story-e6frg7mf-1226106999777

The easy way out is to pot Neeld, but the club has stalled since a promising 2010 season, he has some responsibility for season 2012 not what went on before.

I know a lot will think I'm letting the players off lightly but I don't and haven't in the past. Some of them are struggling with ageing bodies others are just not up to it and at years end I'm sure we will see big changes to the list but to me this will address only part of the problem.

The Johnny Farnham of football journalism. Mike needs to ACTUALLY retire.

The assessment I've found myself agreeing with most is Ox's. Hm..

Greg Denham has made it his life's mission to pot the MFC - can't stand listening to him any more - problem is we've given nothing on the field to shut him up !

Greg Denham has made it his life's mission to pot the MFC - can't stand listening to him any more - problem is we've given nothing on the field to shut him up !

You are correct win and 50% of them shut up imediately.

Keep up efforts like the last two weeks and it will continue.

I wish I was as sure of winning Tattslotto on saturday