Yeah wyl, its a good point, just what are we doing or not doing that is completely wrong??

It simply has to be addressed.

All our ex coaches from last year quickly got re appointed....Listen to Bailey on Radio he knows the modern game.

What and where is the root problem INSIDE this club?

I'll never walk, but this is the first time I feel like I wouldn't blame those who did.

160 less possessions than the effing Tigers? Are you kidding me??

On the train back home, my thoughts:

Too slow around the park, run and spread non-existent, hand passing woeful, where was the midfield (N. Jones excepted)?

Positives: Watts was good again, some deft touches and grunt when required. Howe good playing back. Clark did okay given the service. Jones tried hard.

It wasn't as if we were particularly insipid - we just aren't good enough. The return of Moloney, Sylvia and Jurrah may improve things, but interestingly they didn't miss Green, I felt.

I'm not sure how you pick up a team that are so low on confidence.

It's going to be a long, long road even after this year, but we'll get there.

Amazing that it was reported by several media people that Melbourne players believed they were being trained too hard over pre season. Far too many melbourne players dont show up after half time, they just pack up shop, they dont have the tanks required to last 4 qtrs. The coaches should extend pre season right thru to september if it means doing so in groups of 5 players at a time for 4 week periods then do it. As at right now very few should be feeling they deserve to be setting foot on the MCG.

Richmond had 160 more possessions, 140 of which were uncontested.

We are talking Richmond here. Not a Hawthorn or Geelong.

Total rebuild required. No bones about it. 5-year plan time.

Correct, I left the game half way through the third quarter, I'm just sick to death of putting up with this crap.

We are inept and our game plane sucks, it's outdated already and even if it wasn't it will not win us games and certainly not a flag. As an example we are obviously not allowed to use the centre of the ground, that's of course if by some miracle we actually find the ball in our players hands, and at one stage Tap[scott was by himself in the middle of the ground but the Melbourne player kicked it to Bate on the wing who was outnumbered 2 to 1, guess what happened.

This is madness and as Matthews said on 3AW today, the style has changed and the press is disappearing for a more open style of play, what run and carry?

I have never seen a worse team than Melbourne and I seriousy question Neeld's capacity to coach at this level. There is nothing there now and in every game I've seen this year we have been outplayed, out possessed, our run, out skilled, out thought, out tackled, and generally demoralised.

We are rabble and we have managed to turn good players in to hacks and second tier players in to "delist at all costs". Our Captains are terrible, our senior players are demoralised, our new additions are bewildered and our team will disappear up its own ass if we don't do something soon.

Mitch Clark must be wondering what the hell he's done and Moloney, Sylvia et al must be thinking who they should approach at the end of the year.

Firstly, we have a crap midfield. Rarely get first hands to ball and when we do, often get tackled with the ball due to lack of quick hands, awarness, smarts, etc.

Secondly, because we have a crap midfield, the ball gets pumed into our defensive 50 way too much, and not enough into ours.

Thridly, we may have decent defenders, but we have no rebounding defenders with great speed or skill, which causes the ball to stay in our defensive area even more.

That's it in a niutshell as far as I am concerned.

Firstly, we have a crap midfield. Rarely get first hands to ball and when we do, often get tackled with the ball due to lack of quick hands, awarness, smarts, etc.

Secondly, because we have a crap midfield, the ball gets pumed into our defensive 50 way too much, and not enough into ours.

Thridly, we may have decent defenders, but we have no rebounding defenders with great speed or skill, which causes the ball to stay in our defensive area even more.

That's it in a niutshell as far as I am concerned.

And that crap midfield knows that they have no one to challenge them for a spot and pull the same s..t week in week out. We have to change the concept. I believe Neeld is astute enough to recognise the problem.

I don't think that the game plan is crap. We got slaughtered in the centre of the ground. Last year we would compesate by playing a man back and winning the ball of half back. Now we do that late, if at all. This exposes a midfield that cannto win its own ball. The old plan worked well if we did win the midfield or if we could sweep effectively. Neeld's plan forces us to win the footy and then use it well. Where we cannot, we will look terrible. Truth is, patching over these flaws is a fool's renovation that we be found out - as it was over and over - against hard teams. Our mids are too slow and lack poise and clean skills. If the engine room breaks down, you haven't got much to play with.

One positive was the contested marking. now THAT is gold in finals. WE have players who can do taht. Watts was the best I have seen hin in this department. Now all we need are three mids. Maybe Blease and gysberts and viney...we just need three.

Correct, I left the game half way through the third quarter, I'm just sick to death of putting up with this crap.

We are inept and our game plane sucks, it's outdated already and even if it wasn't it will not win us games and certainly not a flag. As an example we are obviously not allowed to use the centre of the ground, that's of course if by some miracle we actually find the ball in our players hands, and at one stage Tap[scott was by himself in the middle of the ground but the Melbourne player kicked it to Bate on the wing who was outnumbered 2 to 1, guess what happened.

This is madness and as Matthews said on 3AW today, the style has changed and the press is disappearing for a more open style of play, what run and carry?

I have never seen a worse team than Melbourne and I seriousy question Neeld's capacity to coach at this level. There is nothing there now and in every game I've seen this year we have been outplayed, out possessed, our run, out skilled, out thought, out tackled, and

After seeing the pies taken apart by the blues last night I,m beginning to think you might be right. The collingwood game plan was likely a flash in the pan. There are better game plans out there as shown by the hawks, blues and cats. MFC appeared to have missed the boat here. If we're a the beginning of a new 5 year plan like some on here think, just imagine how outdated the collingwood game plan will be in 2018 if it's already looking dated in 2013! Very worrying signs.

One positive was the contested marking. now THAT is gold in finals. WE have players who can do taht. Watts was the best I have seen hin in this department. Now all we need are three mids. Maybe Blease and gysberts and viney...we just need three.

Eff off. Every week someone picks out the one stat we did OK in and says there are positives. Over it.

On the train back home, my thoughts:

Too slow around the park, run and spread non-existent, hand passing woeful, where was the midfield (N. Jones excepted)?.

Interesting thing here is that many commentators have made mention of how slow Carlton were in previous seasons.

And that this past off season they employed specific sprint training with Matt Shirvington's former coach (I think that's right).

Now that kind of training doesn't make a player want to go for the ball any more, but it does make him more capable of getting there.

They look a lot quicker across the ground. Just a thought.......

We were abysmal today. Not because we were any worse than last week (in fact, in parts we were significantly better). But because we were eventually dominated by a nothing side.

Richmond is poor. Their skills are poor, their defence is shocking, they turn it over as much as we do. So to be so far behind them in a game of football is more than disappointing. It's unacceptable.

Our midfield is as bad as any other side's. It's the reason we're losing. We are lazy and slow, we don't press or zone properly, we don't tackle properly and we don't apply anywhere near enough pressure. That's why we are conceding so many inside 50s. And that is in turn why we are getting belted.

Lazy and slow footballers. Thats what it comes down to. I think the only player who can hold their head up high week in week out is Jones. This guy continues to impress me considering I thought he was not much chop.

As for the rest of them they need a reality check. Hardnes, toughness, heart etc isn't only about the physical game. It's also about pushing through the pain barrier to actually spread, create options and make the next contest.

Our team is way too one dimensional, soft, slow, mentally weak and above all else LAZY. They have been that way the last few years and they have continued even under a new FD.

We were abysmal today. Not because we were any worse than last week (in fact, in parts we were significantly better). But because we were eventually dominated by a nothing side.

Richmond is poor. Their skills are poor, their defence is shocking, they turn it over as much as we do. So to be so far behind them in a game of football is more than disappointing. It's unacceptable.

Our midfield is as bad as any other side's. It's the reason we're losing. We are lazy and slow, we don't press or zone properly, we don't tackle properly and we don't apply anywhere near enough pressure. That's why we are conceding so many inside 50s. And that is in turn why we are getting belted.

Yet they made us look stupid today, their handball was so much slicker than ours and they moved the ball from one end of the ground with speed and ease.

They may have a poor backline but the ball bounced out of our forward line today like a rubber ball hitting a brick wall, I guess that makes our forward line the worst in the comp by far.

I really like Clark - Matthews full of it - and Watts. Jonesy is great too.

Grimes's clanger in the first quarter told the story - and that is he and Trengrove should be trying to establish themselves as players and not captaining the team while they're at it. Pretty clear Jones was the choice for captain.

What we need in my opinion.

- Davey to retire. I'm sorry Aaron. You do the things you used to. Ever since you did your leg though, you've lost a yard and a half and just get caught. The things you used to do just don't work for you anymore and that's it.

- Neeld to be sitting with a list and a big black texta, slowly but steadily crossing off names.

- Midfield awareness. It's getting better, but our mids still continue to handball into traffic.

Genuinely, I think the forward line and the midfield are close to set. We need a small forward, but apart from that it's okay. The midfield though...I think the only two whose places I would guarantee right now (from today) are Jones and Trengove - and the latter is because he's only 20.

I really like Clark - Matthews full of it - and Watts. Jonesy is great too.

Regarding both of them it seems.......

_{Mark Neeld cannot tell me that Jack Watts will develop his game playing as a spare man behind the ball.}

Midfield? What midfield?

_{Mark Neeld cannot tell me that Jack Watts will develop his game playing as a spare man behind the ball.}

FFS. Watts is the least of our concerns. He played well today FFS!

Neeld can start by explaining why he brought Davey back, why he played Dunn deep when he was on as the sub, why our players still can't kick, and why we collapse under pressure.

FFS. Watts is the least of our concerns. He played well today FFS!

Yes he did, but he seemingly must also be blamed (or be accountable) for any and all problems, mistakes and general rubbish that occurs.......

This post seems appropriate to this thread as well as another so I have repeated it.

'Fix the problem and the blame will fix itself.' (That is, don't waste time blaming anyone.)

First, look at the playing list and assess its strengths and weaknesses - IMO the list consists of predominantly attack oriented players (compare Geelong with Collingwood for example).

Second, look at how to get the best out of the current playing list.

Third, invent a game plan to suit the list at the moment and then evolve it over time - don't try to enforce preconceived ideas or copy others as there is never enough time to do this and MFC needs to be ahead of copying which never works anyway.

In short, be flexible and make the most of what you have got - the great Norm Smith created the ruck-rover role to find a position for a member of his playing list who could play but didn't fit the conventional positions of the time, Ron Barassi!

I thought Morton to be a positive. He is the only MFC player to offer himself as an option with good run and spread. In pack situations he will run skirting the pack offering himself to receive the ball whilst on the run moving the ball forward. I'm sick of the midfield standing still calling for the ball only to be caught and tackled. We look slow because we are dumb in this area.

I'm not sure of the stats but Morton creates space for himself providing an option for the ball carrier. His disposal was ok too.

I thought Morton to be a positive. He is the only MFC player to offer himself as an option with good run and spread. In pack situations he will run skirting the pack offering himself to receive the ball whilst on the run moving the ball forward. I'm sick of the midfield standing still calling for the ball only to be caught and tackled. We look slow because we are dumb in this area.

I'm not sure of the stats but Morton creates space for himself providing an option for the ball carrier. His disposal was ok too.

April fools was a fortnight ago mate....

I thought Morton to be a positive. He is the only MFC player to offer himself as an option with good run and spread. In pack situations he will run skirting the pack offering himself to receive the ball whilst on the run moving the ball forward. I'm sick of the midfield standing still calling for the ball only to be caught and tackled. We look slow because we are dumb in this area.

I'm not sure of the stats but Morton creates space for himself providing an option for the ball carrier. His disposal was ok too.

He did try hard with his running. But he would get the ball, take off, run too far, look around, see nothing (invariably because he was too busy running and not passing when he should have) and end up turning it over.

I did enjoy his pace though. But not enough, for mine.