Recruiting or Development.

[Hells Gates 505]

i doubt heavily Schwab has ever had a hand in any draft selection processess,

He would just be spruiking our then current direction

Its fine to have your opinion mate, all good. I do disagree though, he has been quite involved, way too much. Not saying Im right and your wrong at all, have just seen it first hand

[daisycutter 29,713]

i doubt heavily Schwab has ever had a hand in any draft selection processess,

He would just be spruiking our then current direction

I agree. Schwab is the CEO not the head of the football department. He was just chewing the fat and talking about what he saw was going on in the FD

Like you say he doesn't recruit, develop or train the footy team

[Jordie_tackles 354]

Its fine to have your opinion mate, all good. I do disagree though, he has been quite involved, way too much. Not saying Im right and your wrong at all, have just seen it first hand

no sweat, thats why we are here

[warren dean 193]

On the Couch did a quick review of Melbourne's drafting since 2007. The only picks that got a tick were Grimes and Trengove, with the jury still out on Tapscott and Cook. The rest all crosses.This was according to Sheahan. Was a very shallow analysis but seems to concur with a lot of the sentiment expressed around here.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

I think Gysberts has the tools to be good, just needs a tank imo and we will see some progress

[Jordie_tackles 354]

To think we could have Shuey and Zaha right now though from that 09 draft is nearing on sickening to go with Trengove

edit - i still hold out hope for Blease and Strauss, one needs a tank and the other a injury free run

Edited April 9, 2012 by Jordie_tackles

[Dr. Gonzo 24,273]

It has to be a mix of both recruiting and development. You need to select the right players (skills, mindset, scope for improvement) but you then need to have the culture and facilities in place to grow these boys into men. Some players have the inner will to do this themselves but not many. pointing to players like Fyfe as an example does not mean he does not require development - it means he has the skills to hit the ground running but development is not all about ability. Development is teaching kids to play in a team game - this means teaching a defensive mindset for kids who have gone through their whole junior careers as one way players. It also means teaching them strategy and tactics, "structures" and "gameplans" and how to "play a role". These terms have become cliches in football in recent years but there is meaning behind the mantra.

And to those who say our recruiting's been first class, but our ability to develop players has been ordinary - well, if that's the case, why would you recruit some many "project" players with high draft picks and not recruit the kids who already look out of the box at age 18 (eg, Cook over Darling).

Cook may very well be a good player - but, on any construction, he was a slightly risky project player at that pick - not exactly a percentage play for a club in our situation.

I am very critical of this decision and have been since the draft - I wanted Lynch with Dalring as a second choice - Lynch went pick 11 so I thought we had to pick Darling at 12. I should make it clear though that this is not due to a belief that Cook will never come on and be AFL standard or even a good player. I have never seen the guy play so how would I know? The reason I thought we needed Darling over Cook was for "team/list balance". Cook seemed like a player too similar to Watts. A tall, skinny, project player - U18 AA yes but a player who would take a while to come on. Darling was ready to go and I felt would complement Watts and Jurrah nicely. I also felt that they could really develop together and get game time standing next to each other in the F50 - Cook won't play consistent footy til 2013/14 it seems and by that stage Watts will be into his 5th season. By the time Cook is playing good consistent footy Watts will probably be into his 7th/8th season.

So its not merely a fact of player A is better than player B - it is a matter of what the TEAM needs. Who is the best player for the TEAM. Had we picked NikNat or Hurley for example I could cop Cook as a skinny project player - but picking Watts and then Cook means we have two players of the same ilk and I'm not sure how well they will complement each other. I may ultimately be proven wrong on this and I would be more than happy to be.

This brings me to another point that we have too many players that are the same - too many flankers who can't really rotate through the middle (Dunn, Bate, Howe, Jurrah, Petterd, Macdonald, Bennell, Green, Strauss & Rivers). That is more 25% of our list who are one dimensional and can only offer limited input to our side. In modern footy you need a dozen players who can rotate through the middle meaning basically all your flankers and wingers need to be able to go on the ball or play the traditional "follower" role. We also have too many beanpoles like Watts, Cook, Firzpatrick, Gawn, Spencer, Garland (you could probably add McDonald & Davis here as well though is early days). We have Frawley as a rock in defense and Clark up forward (though whether he can play this role is still to be determined) and Jamar in the ruck but not much else for big bodied key position players who can stand up under pressure both physical and mental.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Dr. Gonzo

[RudeBoy 164]

Two years ago the Dees were definitely a team on the improve; a team which drew and then lost by a solitary point to the eventual Premiers that year. In 2010 no-one was rubbishing the club's recruiting or player development. Something went badly wrong in 2011.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

Two years ago the Dees were definitely a team on the improve; a team which drew and then lost by a solitary point to the eventual Premiers that year. In 2010 no-one was rubbishing the club's recruiting or player development. Something went badly wrong in 2011.

The game changed, we cant get away with bruise free run and carry football through the corridor. people said it was dangerous then, now if you turn it over in the middle especially it will get locked into your defensive 50 until a good team WILL score

[Dr. Gonzo 24,273]

The more I think about it, the more I think we should be spending big on a 24-25 year old midfield gun that we can solidify a midfield around, much like Carlton did with Judd. Of course, easier said than done

OK sounds good, you've sold me.

So who do we get?

[Hells Gates 505]

OK sounds good, you've sold me.

So who do we get?

Goddard?

[Dr. Gonzo 24,273]

Who exactly has been saying our recruiters have been first class. I dont think anyone I can recall has been sayin that.

And any tall player is a "project". They dont plug in a play. Darling is 191cm and plays a flank as a 4th tall along side Cox, Lynch and Kennedy. And given there were personal off field issues with Darling. He did come with a level of risk.

But as a self promoting recruiter I bet you know all that and more.

How tall were Dunstall, Lockett, Ablett, Modra, Lloyd, Fevola?

What were his off field issues? He banged a chick on school camp and was decked outside a nightclub? Refer back to dee-luded's pictures of some successful players.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,273]

Goddard?

A bit older but yes I would definitely be having a crack - don't know if we could compete with Carlton or GWS though.

[Guest Jose Murinho]

Two years ago the Dees were definitely a team on the improve; a team which drew and then lost by a solitary point to the eventual Premiers that year. In 2010 no-one was rubbishing the club's recruiting or player development. Something went badly wrong in 2011.

Which was?

The addition of the substitute rule?

Or is there something else I'm missing?

[Hells Gates 505]

A bit older but yes I would definitely be having a crack - don't know if we could compete with Carlton or GWS though.

Yeah that's it mate. How do Carlton compete when they are over $7 million in debt, it frustrates me.

I'm not sure of anyone else but we need a star.

There would have to be some homesicks boys soon but again, they're not stars yet.

[biggestred 5,125]

DEVELOPMENT.

we never, ever, develop most players into what they could be....

[Dr. Gonzo 24,273]

I agree. Schwab is the CEO not the head of the football department. He was just chewing the fat and talking about what he saw was going on in the FD

Like you say he doesn't recruit, develop or train the footy team

Well thats apparently not what the Andrews Report indicated.

When is the next Whiteboard Wednesday anyway? I missed those.

[binman 43,718]

Two years ago the Dees were definitely a team on the improve; a team which drew and then lost by a solitary point to the eventual Premiers that year. In 2010 no-one was rubbishing the club's recruiting or player development. Something went badly wrong in 2011.

Yes, i agree. My feeling is we are still dealing with whatever did actually go wrong last year. It was widely reported around the time of 186 that the admin and footy department (and players) were at loggerheads, suggesting Hells Gate's comments about how involved Schwab has been in the football department's business over the last couple of years are close to the mark. My sense is this might well be central to what went so badly wrong last year and i also feel it continues to impact this year.

Don't get me wrong i'm not suggesting Schwab is responsible or should go but there was definitely some sort of trauma last year (beyond the obvious in the sacking of Bailey and 186). Trauma takes time to deal with and can linger for a long time, particularly if it swept under the carpet and not properly acknowledged and/or addressed. There is no such thing as drawing a line and fully starting afresh, something Neeld is now having to come to terms with.

Something still doesn't feel right at the club

Edited April 9, 2012 by binman

[Chook 15,022]

Fremantle supporters strongly believe that the best thing that ever happened to their club was that Chris Connolly and Cameron Schwab moved on. Is it a coincidence that Freo's coming along and we're in the biggest hole we've been in, possibly ever?

Edited April 9, 2012 by Chook

[Fork 'em 6,990]

After today, do you still think Hawkins is unproven??

Still can't kick.

[Sir Why You Little 37,120]

Yes, i agree. My feeling is we are still dealing with whatever did actually go wrong last year. It was widely reported around the time of 186 that the admin and footy department (and players) were at loggerheads, suggesting Hells Gate's comments about how involved Schwab has been in the football department's business over the last couple of years are close to the mark. My sense is this might well be central to what went so badly wrong last year and i also feel it continues to impact this year.

Don't get me wrong i'm not suggesting Schwab is responsible or should go but there was definitely some sort of trauma last year (beyond the obvious in the sacking of Bailey and 186). Trauma takes time to deal with and can linger for a long time, particularly if it swept under the carpet and not properly acknowledged and/or addressed. There is no such thing as drawing a line and fully starting afresh, something Neeld is now having to come to terms with.

Something still doesn't feel right at the club

If there are issues still lingering and festering...NOW IS THE TIME to bring it all out...not next month NOW.

I do not care who it involves or who started it...

This club is hanging by a thread...Right Now...I have no idea what the problem is, but like you something still does not feel right...and i am so tired of it.

We all pay good $$$ to this organization...Some of the comments i have read and heard from opposition fans today is just laughable.

Outside this discussion board this club holds no respect at all...Yes i exaggerate a little, but not much.

[bing181 9,328]

This club is hanging by a thread...

Oh come on, this is just getting out of hand.

[Sir Why You Little 37,120]

Oh come on, this is just getting out of hand.

Is it?

[Dr. Gonzo 24,273]

Oh come on, this is just getting out of hand.

Really? Where were we at in 2008? What happens if we can't snare a major sponsor? Where are the 10K members from last year who haven't signed up? How can we expand our membership base if we are anchored to the bottom of the ladder? We won't go bust next year but if some of these things don't turn around quickly we could very well find ourselves back where we were in 2008.

[daisycutter 29,713]

Well thats apparently not what the Andrews Report indicated.

When is the next Whiteboard Wednesday anyway? I missed those.

C'mon Gonzo if you know anything that was in the Andrews report how about sharing it instead of making snide cracks like that

I suspect that you don't and can only repeat internet and coffee machine gossip

The point was, judge the footballers on the FD performance and the rest on the CEO

It's pretty obvious there are questions being asked of CS and he is on thin ice but lets not get hysterical and try to sheet home the blame for everything down at happy valley to CS