Because it is terrible. We all know the score- same types- we have extractors with no outside class. We have flat track bullies, we have no pace and the fact that a first gamer in Magner was BOG for us yesterday is pathetic.

I would keep Magner, Jones and McKenzie as they show heart. I would consider trying to turn Jones into a small forward because when Viney comes in we will have too many similar types playing mid.

It's been said before but we need a star. I know they are not exactly growing on trees but if we can't draft one we are doomed to fail until our next window is open.

I would put everyone on the trade table bar Jones, Frawley, Trengove, Martin, Howe, Watts, Magner and Clark. Our compo pics also.

Who could we get? Who is available? Proven midfielders with leadership and heart are our number one priorities.

i remain ever hopeful that gysberts is going to develop into the classy mover that he promises to be. but it's just a hope - i look at the way fyfe is dominating games for fremantle and the way that bastinac is a red-hot goer for north, and lament yet again our average drafting and continued poor development.

don't forget, he who shall not be named was meant to be our 'star' midfielder. i'd say, at this stage, the only two in our midfield who look capable of achieving that mantle are trengove and watts - a kid who's co-captaining a shockingly poor side, and a tall bloke who played his first ever game in the midfield yesterday. it's an absolute indictment on our playing stocks that it's come to this.

as i've said so many times, you can't have your best players be late draft picks / rookie list selections and hope to compete with the best teams in the competition. hawthorn's stars are their top echelon picks plus mitchell, collingwood's the same with pendlebury, thomas, a father-son in cloke plus swan. the key to being a successful side is to draft well and develop well. sadly, we have done neither for far too long a time.

The love for Magner is a bit over the top for me. Agree he was our best yesterday and was great in pre-season but to list him as an untouchable is way over the top. His disposal is utterly woeful. Until we get a bunch of mids who can BOTH get the footy and dispose of it properly we will continue to get beaten.

We are tanking.

I just figured it out. It explains our game plan yesterday.

3 1st rounders to get 2 A-grade mids and 1 A-grade small forward.

We might be the only team that does not need to tank. Our mids are not that bad.

On yesterday's performance you could make an argument that we will finish last.

Last may net us picks 1 and 2, with our mid round pick, pick 11.

No one can trump pick 1 for Viney, so we will only have to use our 2nd round pick, pick 23 or so.

Picks 1, 2, 11, Viney out of the draft. Problem solved.

On yesterday's performance you could make an argument that we will finish last.

Last may net us picks 1 and 2, with our mid round pick, pick 11.

No one can trump pick 1 for Viney, so we will only have to use our 2nd round pick, pick 23 or so.

Picks 1, 2, 11, Viney out of the draft. Problem solved.

We won't come last. GWS and Gold Coast will be below us.

The problem is that even if we have pick 3,4 and 11... we'll have to use pick 3 on Viney. GWS and Gold Coast know we are committed to him so will nominate their pick 1 or 2.

Getting Viney for pick 3-ish, undoes some of the benefit of getting him father son. because in a regular draft he probably wouldn't even go that high.

We won't come last. GWS and Gold Coast will be below us.

The problem is that even if we have pick 3,4 and 11... we'll have to use pick 3 on Viney. GWS and Gold Coast know we are committed to him so will nominate their pick 1 or 2.

Getting Viney for pick 3-ish, undoes some of the benefit of getting him father son. because in a regular draft he probably wouldn't even go that high.

Where have you heard that?

I heard he was 1 of 2 surefire stars in the 2012 draft. The other is.... the Vic Country utility.... cant remember his name.

I think we have the talent on the list now, Gysberts, Tappy, Blease, Grimes, Trengove, Jones, Magner, Howe. Imagine these guys all with 100 games in them

Because it is terrible. We all know the score- same types- we have extractors with no outside class. We have flat track bullies, we have no pace and the fact that a first gamer in Magner was BOG for us yesterday is pathetic.

I would keep Magner, Jones and McKenzie as they show heart. I would consider trying to turn Jones into a small forward because when Viney comes in we will have too many similar types playing mid.

It's been said before but we need a star. I know they are not exactly growing on trees but if we can't draft one we are doomed to fail until our next window is open.

I would put everyone on the trade table bar Jones, Frawley, Trengove, Martin, Howe, Watts, Magner and Clark. Our compo pics also.

Who could we get? Who is available? Proven midfielders with leadership and heart are our number one priorities.

You have pulled the trigger very very early! Magner plays one ok game he is untouchable. Moloney gets 19 brownlow votes wins the best and fairest by a mile, has one bad game as the lions clearly thought he was the main person to stop and he is a dud we need to get rid of!

Agree we need to inject some class to our mids. Disagree it is as disastrous as you mention. You will not trade for the class you are looking for. If you disagree I would keen to know who you think we can land. At best it will provide a solid A Grader which we will pay overs for. We need to re-invent the players we have and then look to the draft to inject quality mids with Viney. I would be moving Howe further up the ground, Watts to continue to play through the midfield and Grimes to move into the midfield. We have plentiful half forwards and our backs are our strength so we need to balance this a bit more. Magner, Jones and Trengove should be persevered with. Moloney needs to be pushed out as he offers nothing defensively and provides alot of clearances but not many that give us a clean advantage. McKenzie is a trier who is meant to tag but lets his man get 30 touches.

You have pulled the trigger very very early! Magner plays one ok game he is untouchable. Moloney gets 19 brownlow votes wins the best and fairest by a mile, has one bad game as the lions clearly thought he was the main person to stop and he is a dud we need to get rid of!

Moloney winning a B & F says more about our performance last year than about him. An inside mid who plays 80% game time all in the middle and lays 2 tackles for the game.

Magner is not untouchable but Moloney was pathetic yesterday.

Our midfield has been triaged since I can remember: Powell, Moloney, and now Magner.

All recruited as known talents and became (or destined to be) our most damaging midfielders.

We need to develop the talent we have and are about to get, we have not been able to turn young potential into star performers and that is the way to get out of this mire, not looking at some magical trade that will net us a 'Judd' - there aren't many out there, and they don't want to come to us.

Gysberts, Trengove, Bail, McKenzie, Viney, Young player traded for with comp picks (or the mid-round comp pick), Tapscott, and Blease are the only way out of this predicament.

Edited April 1, 201213 yr by rpfc

I actually think we need to rebuild in general. You have to put our drafting Down as a failure. New 5 year plan starts now. We are the new Richmond.

Grimes, frawley, trengove, watts. These are the 4 players I can only seriously see become the elite players we are craving for.

Our midfield has been triaged since I can remember: Powell, Moloney, and now Magner.

All recruited as known talents and became (or destined to be) our most damaging midfielders.

We need to develop the talent we have and are about to get, we have not been able to turn young potential into star performers and that is the way to get out of this mire, not looking at some magical trade that will net us a 'Judd' - there aren't many out there, and they don't want to come to us.

Gysberts, Trengove, Bail, McKenzie, Viney, Young player traded for with comp picks (or the mid-round comp pick), Tapscott, and Blease are the only way out of this predicament.

Our midfield has been triaged since I can remember: Powell, Moloney, and now Magner.

All recruited as known talents and became (or destined to be) our most damaging midfielders.

We need to develop the talent we have and are about to get, we have not been able to turn young potential into star performers and that is the way to get out of this mire, not looking at some magical trade that will net us a 'Judd' - there aren't many out there, and they don't want to come to us.

Gysberts, Trengove, Bail, McKenzie, Viney, Young player traded for with comp picks (or the mid-round comp pick), Tapscott, and Blease are the only way out of this predicament.

What happens if we can't develop this potential into elite mids, and who is going to show them the way? Whose example are they going to follow, who are they going to aspire to play like?

Surely with free agency coming about we can find another Clark who will come over for cash. Surely with the money we save on getting rid of Green and Davey and probably even Moloney we can lure a trier over.

I think part of a reason we haven't been able to develop a star is we have never really had one. When Sully came over I thought his training and football philosophies would rub off on the other youngsters but that dream is dead now. I worry for our future with current in house stocks.

I noticed you didn't post yesterday btw, what were your thoughts on the game out of interest?

What happens if we can't develop this potential into elite mids, and who is going to show them the way? Whose example are they going to follow, who are they going to aspire to play like?

We can trade for an elite mid. But unless we happen to snare 2 or 3 of them we'll still need a couple of our young guys to develop into something resembling an elite player.

But honestly do we really need to have an elite midfielder to set an example for others. Can we not take anything out of playing against elite mids? Does every club rely on developing players this way?

We've got too many holes to fill. We can't rely on trading or drafting. We need our young players to step up and a few more to take that extra step and become elite, otherwise we're f..ked.

On yesterday's performance you could make an argument that we will finish last.

Last may net us picks 1 and 2, with our mid round pick, pick 11.

No one can trump pick 1 for Viney, so we will only have to use our 2nd round pick, pick 23 or so.

Picks 1, 2, 11, Viney out of the draft. Problem solved.

If I knew we could get an O'Meara type, Coniglio type, Viney and another good player at 11, I would gladly lose every game for the year. We need a major infusion of midfield, speed, skill and talent if we are to be a good side. The trouble is with the new side in New Zealand and South Africa we would lose all of them and end up with a bag of chips.

At the Dogs vs Eagles match, and if the rumour is true that Gaff wants to come back to Melbourne at the end of the year, I'd happily trade that mid-first round pick for him.

He's exactly the sort of smooth, fast, skilled outside mid that we sorely lack.

Yep, just the sort of outside player that will helps us win clearances.

The problem is not only our midfield, though it is the most glaringly obvious problem. We lack another quality KPD (if Frawley goes down we are farked. Garland isn't a KPD, an continually refuses to man up, though that goes for the whole team yeasterday), we lack another KPF (unless Watts decides to come on this year).

The midfield - we lack everything. No skill, no poise and no pace.

We'll have 4 highish picks come end of year. Viney is obviously one of them (and thank christ we are guaranteed him). Do we go all out for mids (not just dower one's)? Do we trade players with some currency who won't be around for a serious premiership tilt (struggling to find any)? Do we try and bring in quality players (who would want to come to the MFC)?

I would trade anyone apart from the names I mentioned before- maybe Moloney, Sylvia or Jamar might attract some attention. Maybe a trade to the Suns or a team looking for a big body. We should be looking for classy midfielders with pace who can get it into our forward line. That would be ideal.

What happens if we can't develop this potential into elite mids, and who is going to show them the way? Whose example are they going to follow, who are they going to aspire to play like?

Surely with free agency coming about we can find another Clark who will come over for cash. Surely with the money we save on getting rid of Green and Davey and probably even Moloney we can lure a trier over.

I think part of a reason we haven't been able to develop a star is we have never really had one. When Sully came over I thought his training and football philosophies would rub off on the other youngsters but that dream is dead now. I worry for our future with current in house stocks.

I noticed you didn't post yesterday btw, what were your thoughts on the game out of interest?

We won't get a Judd, but this would be my plan for the end of the year:

rpfc List Management 2012

Trade Compensation Picks for a young interstate gun itching to come home OR trade them for top billing in the mini draft

Get Sewell and Black in Free Agency.

Draft Viney and use remaining comp picks on BA.

This is not a panacea but it will get us two things: more talent, and experienced stars to learn off and feed off.

What a laugh.

People here talking about the fact we can trade for an elite mid.

Give yourselves an uppercut.

There is only a handful of elite mids in the comp.

Firstly they have to want out of their club.

Secondly they have to want to come to Melbourne

Thirdly we have to offer up something worth trading without selling our soul

Fourth the other club has to actually like and accept what we offer.

So instead of talking utter shite by saying we can trade for elite mids, extract your heads from your behinds and be realistic.

If its a trade then it is for a good player at absolute best that we will pay massive overs for, or it is continuing through the draft and player development.

You mean like how Clark wanted to come to Melbourne?

Money talks Grandson.

I'd rather pay "overs" for an established star than roll the dice on a draft prospect or relying on player development. What has player development netted us thus far? And what "overs" are we going to pay? Both compo picks? So what!

You mean like how Clark wanted to come to Melbourne?

Money talks Grandson.

I'd rather pay "overs" for an established star than roll the dice on a draft prospect or relying on player development. What has player development netted us thus far? And what "overs" are we going to pay? Both compo picks? So what!

Clark wasn't an established star...

I am very happy to have him as our power forward but he is no Neita.

In fact, he is not far off the 'young player acquired' that 'relies on player development' to get the most out of him.