Any "leader" who adjusts his willingness to lead based on official titles is no leader at all. Leadership is a character trait that can only be turned off with a concerted effort, and can almost never be turned on by someone who doesn't have it naturally.

If Beamer is [censored] off at not being in the leadership group, then he doesn't deserve to be in it at all. Leaders don't lead for the benefit of themselves, but for the benefit of others.

Neeld. "Brent your job is to extract the ball often at the stoppages & give it to a team mate who is in better position"

"If that doesn't happen you do not play"

I couldn't care less if he is [censored] at not being in the LG. he is a worker. Sooner he embraces that the better.

If Beamer is [censored] off at not being in the leadership group, then he doesn't deserve to be in it at all. Leaders don't lead for the benefit of themselves, but for the benefit of others.

I think people are just speculating there is some kind of ill-will on Beamer's part re loss of leadership title- my theory is he just isn't that good period.

I think people are just speculating there is some kind of ill-will on Beamer's part re loss of leadership title- my theory is he just isn't that good period.

Yes winning the B&F at the MFC in 2011 is not much of a rap.

Add Rivers. Too easily mismatched in a Body contest.

Sellar must come in.

Rivers spent a large part of the game on Leuenberger - about 6 inches taller and 15kg? more than him - with rarely a 2nd man up. What's he supposed to do? In the end, Leuenberger only got one goal, so maybe he didn't do too bad in some respects.

Which is why I would love to see Rivers used as a'floating spoiler' in defence. Spoiling is his best quality so it would be great if he could be put on a less dangerous forward who likes to committ up the ground.

We can't afford players not being responsible for they're direct opponents.

too easy for opposition coaches to exploit.

Time for him or JMac to go, but Jmac is a good man on man competitor. Rivers out. Sellar in, Frawley to the other tall option. with Garland 3rd tall + Jmac & Grimes. TMac & Davis say Hi to this defensive structure. Coming to a 'G' near you.

Rivers spent a large part of the game on Leuenberger - about 6 inches taller and 15kg? more than him - with rarely a 2nd man up. What's he supposed to do? In the end, Leuenberger only got one goal, so maybe he didn't do too bad in some respects.

He's supposed to make way for someone who will play contested footy man on man. Basil will.

Sellar in, Rivers flows away

#Edit:Our whole defence was mismatch far too often, because we were too small. Sellars has to come in.

Which defender you can choose to come out?

Yes winning the B&F at the MFC in 2011 is not much of a rap.

Just to clarify for those people playing at home- you're not being sarcastic there.

Rivers spent a large part of the game on Leuenberger - about 6 inches taller and 15kg? more than him - with rarely a 2nd man up. What's he supposed to do? In the end, Leuenberger only got one goal, so maybe he didn't do too bad in some respects.

Blindingly obvious mismatch yet it continued for some time. As did Grimes on Rockliff. Jamar was monstered all day (do they have new ruck rule interpretations this year??)

Didn't see a lot out of the coaches box to be honest. Was watching with interest.

Every team knows to isolate Rivers in the goal square. Very poor coaching by our guys.

We can't afford players not being responsible for they're direct opponents.

too easy for opposition coaches to exploit.

Like all the coaches do to Maxwell?

Blindingly obvious mismatch yet it continued for some time. As did Grimes on Rockliff. Jamar was monstered all day (do they have new ruck rule interpretations this year??)

Didn't see a lot out of the coaches box to be honest. Was watching with interest.

Every team knows to isolate Rivers in the goal square. Very poor coaching by our guys.

The Rockliff one got me as it was obvious they were trying to take Grimes deep and loose our only effective rebound player. MacDonald or even Tynan who played his junior football as a medium KPD should have been moved to free Grimes up.

I think so much coaching is based around structure these days and less on creative coaching moves. To me it would have made sense to put Stef Martin back on to Leuenberger when he was forward and swing Clark who was struggling up forward into the ruck for a run and drop Jamar back into the square as he wasn't having his best day in the ruck. Blease back where he could run. Just move things around a bit.

Like all the coaches do to Maxwell?

So your comparing Rivers with Maxwell?

The Rockliff one got me as it was obvious they were trying to take Grimes deep and loose our only effective rebound player. MacDonald or even Tynan who played his junior football as a medium KPD should have been moved to free Grimes up.

I think so much coaching is based around structure these days and less on creative coaching moves. To me it would have made sense to put Stef Martin back on to Leuenberger when he was forward and swing Clark who was struggling up forward into the ruck for a run and drop Jamar back into the square as he wasn't having his best day in the ruck. Blease back where he could run. Just move things around a bit.

Whilst the midfield is being smashed, and we are being smashed at the stoppages i doubt shuffling defenders is going to make much difference.

So your comparing Rivers with Maxwell?

I'm comparing our Collingwood-esque game plan with the Collingwood game plan. Rivers would be great as 3rd man up, just as Maxwell has made it his niche. Our defenders have been a strength of ours and I don't think there's much need to cut many loose. Rivers' 1%ers are up there with Frawley's every week. He's aggressive, hates being beaten in a contest regardless of whether he's got bugger all chance and he commits.

So yeah, in our poor man's Collinwood game plan I would say Rivers is a poor man's Maxwell.

Round 2 I'd like to see couch in, sellar in, drop davey, Green still a good player imo, early days demon fans, Neeld needs to keep turning players over to Casey and back again till he finds a competitive group. Tynan deserves another chance, not convinced with Bate.

Whilst the midfield is being smashed, and we are being smashed at the stoppages i doubt shuffling defenders is going to make much difference.

No if you have a look I think I'm talking about moves all over the ground including the midfield but also more about a coaches reluctance to make structural moves these days.

Another thing on changes to the side, I know Couch was in the best for Casey yesterday but I think we can only have 2 of Couch, Jones, Magnar or Moloney in the side at any one, include Silvia and Bate to this list if you like. It's ok to have grunt in the mids but you also need the football smarts, awareness, run, carry and spread, and disposal. All of these guys lack in some of these areas, we need a balance.

Madness, we already got rid of Junior who provided maturity and body size in the midfield, so without Beamer we'd be a bunch of stick figures and Nathan Jones kicking it to the opposition.

However I must admit we never recovered from losing Scott Thompson in the midfield. I think if he'd stayed at the Dees back in the years when Bruce was early brownlow favourite we might have gone better than we did. Moloney talks the talk but he has never been as competitive as Scott Thompson was in his early years for the dees.

We held on to Neitz, Robbo and DEFINATELY Miller for far too long. We should have been looking for a key forward years before in Daniher's years. Ferguson could have stayed a year or two more - at least he could take a contested mark.

But we have too many young blokes without any decent role models in the team. Davey's two seasons past his best, Green would be performing better as captain for mine.

If I was Neeld Id just sack a bunch of players, wipe things clean and start again. Bring in some older players from somewhere else to learn off. But Beamer is a required player for mine.

And to think we could have drafted Rockliff in 2008 as he trained pre-season with us. He has said that MFC were only going to offer him a rookie spot. I know we picked Jurrah in the pre-season draft but don't you think we could have drafted him in the national draft instead of Bennell or Jetta or Bail or even Blease and Strauss. Our recruiting has sucked for over 10 years. Since Brad Green in 1999 our early picks (1st or 2nd picks) are either no longer at the club (Scott Thompson, Molan, Armstrong, Aaron Rogers, Bell, Nick Smith, McLean or are treading water (Sylvia,Bate,Dunn, Morton).

Neeld has inherited a basket case.

You can't turn a sows ear into a silk purse. Too may of our players just aren't good enough

The recruiting, particularly under Craig Cameron was well below par considering we had many early picks. It's going to take years to turn this club into a force if at all.

i have a mate who nows Moloney quite well through sponsorship at the club and he has told me that he is really [censored] at not being in the leadership group, and is carrying a major chip on his shoulder

Well plenty of people in the real world lose their jobs altogether (with families to feed & bills to pay) when an employer decides to take a new direction, so to Maloney HTFU and get on with it, wasn't it he who said if your not with us then leave

Well plenty of people in the real world lose their jobs altogether (with families to feed & bills to pay) when an employer decides to take a new direction, so to Maloney HTFU and get on with it, wasn't it he who said if your not with us then leave

Hi PSD how are you feeling over in the west?

Hope you are not going next saturday

It is going to be very ordinary.

I reckon 100+ loss is on the way.

I'm comparing our Collingwood-esque game plan with the Collingwood game plan. Rivers would be great as 3rd man up, just as Maxwell has made it his niche. Our defenders have been a strength of ours and I don't think there's much need to cut many loose. Rivers' 1%ers are up there with Frawley's every week. He's aggressive, hates being beaten in a contest regardless of whether he's got bugger all chance and he commits.

So yeah, in our poor man's Collinwood game plan I would say Rivers is a poor man's Maxwell.

Rivers is nearly passed it. Maxwell his superior.

Garland should be Rivers replacement with Seller the tall with Chip next and Garland, Davis, then TMac either back or forward, coming. Jmac skating thin with Strauss & Tapscott in the wings.

Rivers is nearly passed it. Maxwell his superior.

Garland should be Rivers replacement with Seller the tall with Chip next and Garland, Davis, then TMac either back or forward, coming. Jmac skating thin with Strauss & Tapscott in the wings.

Agreed. But are those in the wings up to it NOW?

Can we cover the one on one loss that freeing up Garland would create? Essentially you would be replacing Garland, not Rivers.

Just finished watching the game. Especially in the first half there was some good aggression and attack on the ball. 2nd half was very difficukt to watch. I thought many Demonlanders were ranting about the senior players but I am afraid they were right.

The most glaring dysfunction about that effort was that Moloney, Davey, and Green were very poor. You know when a lot of first gamers get their run, how they run around the packs out of position and waititg for a ball to come their way? These three senior players played that kind of game.

Davey. A favourite of mine whose career is coming to an end. I don't think we will see him in the seniors for the rest of 2012 unless we have a string of injuries.

Green. How can a bloke with his experience and skill play that badly?

Moloney. Ran around chasing the pack all day. However, he rarely has two poor games in a row. Also, we must keep him because he is still capable of producing his best.

Just finished watching the game. Especially in the first half there was some good aggression and attack on the ball. 2nd half was very difficukt to watch. I thought many Demonlanders were ranting about the senior players but I am afraid they were right.

The most glaring dysfunction about that effort was that Moloney, Davey, and Green were very poor. You know when a lot of first gamers get their run, how they run around the packs out of position and waititg for a ball to come their way? These three senior players played that kind of game.

Davey. A favourite of mine whose career is coming to an end. I don't think we will see him in the seniors for the rest of 2012 unless we have a string of injuries.

Green. How can a bloke with his experience and skill play that badly?

Moloney. Ran around chasing the pack all day. However, he rarely has two poor games in a row. Also, we must keep him because he is still capable of producing his best.

Could be a very interesting Casey side in a couple of weeks MB.

I think Casey could go quite well this year.

They could have some very experienced players playing a lot of games this year.

Davey, Green and Maloney would a very good centre line in the VFL.

Don't we hear this after every bad game

Melbourne veteran Brad Green says he is shattered by the Demons opening-round performance against Brisbane and it is time the AFL club showed some resolve.

Belted 17.17 (119) to 11.12 (78) at the MCG on Saturday by a Lions side widely expected to struggle this season, Green hoped the defeat hurt his teammates as much as it did him.

"Players have got to stand up and be counted," ex-captain Green told the Nine Network's Sunday Footy Show.

"No doubt that's where you go home at night and stare at the ceiling and start thinking of things and no doubt we've certainly got to come out and perform better than we did yesterday.

"I go home and I just want to sit in the bedroom and don't want to talk to anyone, I turn the phone off, it's shattering ... it sucks, it really does.

"We've just got to get back on that horse.

"There's another game and we've got to get back going again, because at the moment it doesn't look good."

The recent death of iconic Demons figure Jim Stynes had been expected to have Melbourne players at a high emotional pitch for the match.

But Green said regardless of off-field circumstances, they had to produce better efforts.

"It's what you get paid for, we're there to play footy," he said.

While coach Mark Neeld has overhauled the Demons' gameplan, modelled at least in part on Collingwood's boundary-hugging style, Green said players were still expected to take more risks than they did on Saturday.

"To have confidence to look inside and take that option, that's where we've got to get back to and go for it," Green said.

"It's so easy just to bomb it down the line and let others compete for it."