i think you are forgetting about these players...they all come from other clubs.

Josh Gibson, David Hale, Shaun Burgoyne,Cameorn Bruce, Brent Querra, Jack Gunston, Ryan Schoenmakers, Kyle CheneyBurgoyne

Before people start rubbishing some of the players...please remember that the hawks had no issue getting them to come over..

Gibson, Burgoyne, Bruce and Guston all publicly requested to be traded to the hawks. Something that hasn't happend at the demons for a very long time!

Players want a premiership. They wouldnt come to Melbourne for that reason!

The Hawks have drafted elite and precise kicks of the footy and built their gameplan around that - very clever and gives the gameplan every chance to succeed.

i personally think that the demons is not the right place for alot of our current seniors, the way theyve grown and developed over the years hasn't been right in most situations.

I think most would play alot better at other clubs and that the demons should focus on bringing through a whole crop together with a new culture then to have the old culture lingering around with these players.

i personally think that the demons is not the right place for alot of our current seniors, the way theyve grown and developed over the years hasn't been right in most situations.

I think most would play alot better at other clubs and that the demons should focus on bringing through a whole crop together with a new culture then to have the old culture lingering around with these players.

Blunt but I cant disagree with you - thats when we will see things taking off. Good point.

Blunt but I cant disagree with you - thats when we will see things taking off. Good point.

Its hardly blunt. I think that is the expectation and belief of the current and past FD that the sooner that the younger players usurp the senior group then we will be in a better space.

However, it is tougher developing younger player when your senior players dont give a yelp.

And Olisik doesnt your last post give you a pointer on the rats and mice trade value of the senior list?....

I think our seniors players have been hung out to dry by the likes of Gysberts, Blease, Morton, Bennell and Watts not coming on quick enough. How much better does luke ball look with Swan,Pendels and co around him? The younger blokes are the key to our success not just in the future but now as well.

And how many years did Swan run around at Collingwood before he became a player that makes other players look good. Four I believe.

Drafting poor, young players not coming on quick enough ... barking at shadows.

When I saw this thread title I thought to myself- what senior players??? O yeah the ones that turn to water and fold like a deck of cards as soon as the going gets a little tough. The ones that show no leadership or direction whatsoever. The ones that are lucky to get a game every week. That's right I'm pointing the finger at you Davey,Green,Moloney,Sylvia and Jamar. The two that are excused are jones and riv as they always give a consistent effort,show immense courage and lead by example on field. Can't say much for the rest at all though.

Mark Jamar and Brad Green have been very good players and should not be listed in the above group.

Yes, I realised Green had a bad 2011 but I'm sure he'll give his all this year. I don't think the captaincy suited him at all and we forget how good he was prior to last year.

And if Jones is considered a "senior" player at 24 years of age then Clint Bartram and Matthew Bate must also be considered senior players as must Lynden Dunn: all made their senior debut in 2006, All are entering their seventh season as AFL players.

I think a Sylvia for Caddy trade would work a charm.

Would benefit us as Sylvia dosn't have the motivation at the Dees and has 2 or 3 decent games per season.

Would benefit the Gold Coast with Sylvia in the midfield with Ablett and Swollow.

Would benefit Caddy as he would get to come home.

Mark Jamar and Brad Green have been very good players and should not be listed in the above group.

Yes, I realised Green had a bad 2011 but I'm sure he'll give his all this year. I don't think the captaincy suited him at all and we forget how good he was prior to last year.

And if Jones is considered a "senior" player at 24 years of age then Clint Bartram and Matthew Bate must also be considered senior players as must Lynden Dunn: all made their senior debut in 2006, All are entering their seventh season as AFL players.

Green is 31 and if he has a similar year to last year or worse then he is finished at AFL level. MFC have a number of players of his size fighting for a role. I cant see him getting another contract if 2012 is a poor year and he would have little value beyond a PSD punt.

The issue with Jamar is his ability to maintain his fitness. I think out of the senior group he is one keep.

Jones and Bartram have some runs on the Board and are honest triers. Bate and Dunn are on their last chance at AFL this year. If they cant snag a regular spot and make a position their own they will be delisted. No trade value there.

I think a Sylvia for Caddy trade would work a charm.

Would benefit us as Sylvia dosn't have the motivation at the Dees and has 2 or 3 decent games per season.

Would benefit the Gold Coast with Sylvia in the midfield with Ablett and Swollow.

Would benefit Caddy as he would get to come home.

Given MFC have a weakness in the midfield why wouldnt we at least see what Sylvia can provide under Neeld?

And if Sylvia does not perform then his trade value will be minimal. And if Caddy is a talent then GC might not value a player with off field issues and inconsistent application and performance.

Green is 31 and if he has a similar year to last year or worse then he is finished at AFL level. MFC have a number of players of his size fighting for a role. I cant see him getting another contract if 2012 is a poor year and he would have little value beyond a PSD punt.

The issue with Jamar is his ability to maintain his fitness. I think out of the senior group he is one keep.

Jones and Bartram have some runs on the Board and are honest triers. Bate and Dunn are on their last chance at AFL this year. If they cant snag a regular spot and make a position their own they will be delisted. No trade value there.

Given MFC have a weakness in the midfield why wouldnt we at least see what Sylvia can provide under Neeld?

And if Sylvia does not perform then his trade value will be minimal. And if Caddy is a talent then GC might not value a player with off field issues and inconsistent application and performance.

RR I find it hard to believe that Sylvia will have a good year he is going to be coming back from a serious back injury.

IMO he will miss at least 7 games that leaves 15 to impress, take off a couple to get touch back etc and the number drops to 12.

For a guy that plays about 1 in 3 good games we now have 4 good games for the year.

Numbers look ominious to me.

RR I find it hard to believe that Sylvia will have a good year he is going to be coming back from a serious back injury.

IMO he will miss at least 7 games that leaves 15 to impress, take off a couple to get touch back etc and the number drops to 12.

For a guy that plays about 1 in 3 good games we now have 4 good games for the year.

Numbers look ominious to me.

I will never forget that game where he tripped over when he was running with the ball and he just lay there and didn't get up to help out his team mates at the contest

RR I find it hard to believe that Sylvia will have a good year he is going to be coming back from a serious back injury.

IMO he will miss at least 7 games that leaves 15 to impress, take off a couple to get touch back etc and the number drops to 12.

For a guy that plays about 1 in 3 good games we now have 4 good games for the year.

Numbers look ominious to me.

Chill OD. You are too negative.

They say its 4 weeks at this stage. This does not mean he cannot be more consistent in the delivery of his services.

The injury is a blow and we look forward to his prompt return.

I will never forget that game where he tripped over when he was running with the ball and he just lay there and didn't get up to help out his team mates at the contest

And you think GC will give one of their top youngsters for them???

Chill OD. You are too negative.

They say its 4 weeks at this stage. This does not mean he cannot be more consistent in the delivery of his services.

The injury is a blow and we look forward to his prompt return.

And you think GC will give one of their top youngsters for them???

I could easily say you are way to optimistic RR

Time will tell, but based on past performance I reckon the odds are on my side.

Melbourne has struggled to attract ready made footballers. Mitch Clark cost us our first round draft pick and a heap of cash.

Money well spent...must be repeated during the next trade period.

Money well spent because we'd probably have cocked up the draft pick anyway.

i think you are forgetting about these players...they all come from other clubs.

Josh Gibson, David Hale, Shaun Burgoyne,Cameorn Bruce, Brent Querra, Jack Gunston, Kyle CheneyBurgoyne

Before people start rubbishing some of the players...please remember that the hawks had no issue getting them to come over..

Gibson, Burgoyne, Bruce and Guston all publicly requested to be traded to the hawks. Something that hasn't happend at the demons for a very long time!

Gibson is the only One I'd call a topliner. Burgoyne was & is nearing the end, still capable.

The rest are just good ordinary players, with Hale Usefull. Jack Gunston I don't know of, & Kyle, I hope he goes well.

We can't rebuild our list like this with ex players from other clubs, But we are supplementing our List, maybe with 1 a Year from last year onwards.

I think a Sylvia for Caddy trade would work a charm.

Would benefit us as Sylvia dosn't have the motivation at the Dees and has 2 or 3 decent games per season.

Would benefit the Gold Coast with Sylvia in the midfield with Ablett and Swollow.

Would benefit Caddy as he would get to come home.

Hmmn, Interesting scenario.

I think our seniors players have been hung out to dry by the likes of Gysberts, Blease, Morton, Bennell and Watts not coming on quick enough.

Isn't it funny. I'd have it the other way round.

IMO, the Majority of this group, Mostly have been Under Performers over the Journey, & I think we have to push them to Improve, or IF not, >

I've highlighted those who Pull their weight. I included them,as they are all in "a tight games played band together". The band where we are lacking experienced Drive.

..3 Bartram, Clint.. ...95.. 24yr 1mth....181cm .82kg

..6 Bate, Matthew ....90 ..24yr 9mth....192cm. 91kg

11 Clark, Mitchell ....82 ...24yr 5mth....200cm. 99kg

..8 Frawley, James ..82 ...23yr 5mth....193cm. 93kg

14 Dunn, Lynden......81... 24yr 10mth..192cm .95kg

10 Morton, Cale ......64 ...22yr 2mth....192cm .87kg

20 Garland, Colin.... 58... 23yr 10mth...191cm. 90kg

..7 Bennell, Jamie....51 ...21yr 9mth.....179cm .75kg

34 Martin, Stefan ....50... 25yr 4mth.....198cm .103kg

15 Petterd, Ricky ....50. ..23yr 7mth......85cm. 85kg

I think we must get this group up in games & some are right on the fringe of their tenure.

No the senior players just dont perform. And Blease has been out injured alot of the time. How does he hang the senior players out to dry?

Our senior players get hung out to dry because Bailey thought it would be a good idea to limit the amount of senior players we have due to the fact he and many of us would have thought our younger brigade would have improved far more then they have. Beamer and Jones are probably our 2 best midfielders which means against good teams we get smashed by their midfielders every time because those 2 are not A grade midfielders they bust their butts but they are not A grade which means they need help and are not getting it because so many of our younger players are still "Developing" as they say.

Nice bit of revisionism there Cowboy.

When we hit the wall in 1997 the number of capable senior players with leadership capabilities and their bodies weren't shot were limited. I am not sure we got rid of any expereienced capable midfielders that would have been useful to us. And dont ply Brock or Travis.

The only midfielders potentially that we have got rid of were Junior and potentially Bruce. Hardly world beaters and while taking 8 to 9 weeks to fix a hamstring, Junior's departure one year early was in hindsight incorrect. But hell he was 33 and hardly in the prime of his career.

At the moment Beamer and Jones are in our best midfield but as you point out they are not A graders. And if they do need help we need to develop those younger players. Players like Morton and others need to step up this year.

Let this Coaching Panel have a year with them, then decide. Some will stay, but i think we will be very busy at trade week this year. Unless they can learn.

Exactly right - Neeld has said that reputations matter nought.

He ha spot the players on notice - they need to perform or ship out.

And I believe it (that is they will perform or ship out) will happen.

Too early to judge whether the players in question have enough depth of character to lift and stay.

I will never forget that game where he tripped over when he was running with the ball and he just lay there and didn't get up to help out his team mates at the contest

I seem to remember this!which game was it again???

Isn't it funny. I'd have it the other way round.

Absolutely agree

IMO, the Majority of this group, Mostly have been Under Performers over the Journey, & I think we have to push them to Improve, or IF not, >

I've highlighted those who Pull their weight. I included them,as they are all in "a tight games played band together". The band where we are lacking experienced Drive.

..3 Bartram, Clint.. ...95.. 24yr 1mth....181cm .82kg

..6 Bate, Matthew ....90 ..24yr 9mth....192cm. 91kg

11 Clark, Mitchell ....82 ...24yr 5mth....200cm. 99kg

..8 Frawley, James ..82 ...23yr 5mth....193cm. 93kg

14 Dunn, Lynden......81... 24yr 10mth..192cm .95kg

10 Morton, Cale ......64 ...22yr 2mth....192cm .87kg

20 Garland, Colin.... 58... 23yr 10mth...191cm. 90kg

..7 Bennell, Jamie....51 ...21yr 9mth.....179cm .75kg

34 Martin, Stefan ....50... 25yr 4mth.....198cm .103kg

15 Petterd, Ricky ....50. ..23yr 7mth......85cm. 85kg

I think we must get this group up in games & some are right on the fringe of their tenure.

Disagree. I think some of this group not highlighted (exclude Garland, Frawley and i guess Martin) need to actually justify getting a game.

Players like Dunn and Bate have been on the list for 8 years now and have not nailed a spot. What dont we know about each of them? In that time they have been through four coaches...Daniher, Riley, Bailey and Viney 2012 is their last chance. They need to produce Morton is in his 5th year and the pressure is on for him. Petterd is competing against a number of mid sized forwards and needs to also prove his worth.

Perhaps the VFL will be a hunting ground for recruiters? 23-25 ready made grunt players?

I think the argument is that these senior players are setting a terrible example, and that we'd be better off if our younger guys forged their own way.

Sink or Swim theory was good for us .They will learn to swim .

The "too young" excuse is over now.