Maybe i am being unfair or harsh in my assertion. But both Beamer and Col have more talent than most so i mark them harder.

Yes we have been poor as a side, and seeing them play well in a Neeld team was very encouraging.

The season is at 50%. If Col & Beamer fire they will remain required. Bleeding Red & Blue is not a good enough reason.

Col is surely far far more talented than Brent: Brent has produced his best far far more often than Col. So who has been better for us? Brent IMO, though he has had a very disappointing season (but he ain't Robinson Crusoe - or as some would say Robertson Caruso - there).

If both produced their best consistently. and put their inconsistencies down to whatever reasons, we would not be languishing anywhere remotely near the tail of the field.

...are you confusing #22 with #12 ?

No. But there are similarities.

When they both fire we usually win or get mighty close.

the old MFCSS

no matter what you achieve, you get blasted by your own supporters because you are not regraded in the same media-inflated fashion as Hird, Voss, Buckley etc

Neitz- dual AA, coleman medallist

mcdonald - back to back BnF all australian

Jeff White - clearly the dominant ruck of the comp for many yeras

Yze and Johnstone - 3rd/4th in the brownlow

bruce and green - clearly two of our best performers for around a decade

yet its their own supporters who drill them the most

"Bleeds red and blue"...is it just me that hates that phrase?

So long as he's a Ryan O'Keefe type player I don't mind it.

the old MFCSS

no matter what you achieve, you get blasted by your own supporters because you are not regraded in the same media-inflated fashion as Hird, Voss, Buckley etc

Neitz- dual AA, coleman medallist

mcdonald - back to back BnF all australian

Jeff White - clearly the dominant ruck of the comp for many yeras

Yze and Johnstone - 3rd/4th in the brownlow

bruce and green - clearly two of our best performers for around a decade

yet its their own supporters who drill them the most

Flags and Norm Smith medals are what separates the men from the boys C&B. Always has been, always will be.

Those accolades are nice but not particularly memorable. Not something a supporter can tell their grandkids about.

Harsh? Yes. But that's the reality.

the old MFCSS

no matter what you achieve, you get blasted by your own supporters because you are not regraded in the same media-inflated fashion as Hird, Voss, Buckley etc

Neitz- dual AA, coleman medallist

mcdonald - back to back BnF all australian

Jeff White - clearly the dominant ruck of the comp for many yeras

Yze and Johnstone - 3rd/4th in the brownlow

bruce and green - clearly two of our best performers for around a decade

yet its their own supporters who drill them the most

You bag this club more than most C & B

But with your inflated ego above the MFC will never win a 13-14-15th Flag.

Lift ya game sunshine...Close enough is not good enough.

Flags and Norm Smith medals are what separates the men from the boys C&B. Always has been, always will be.

Those accolades are nice but not particularly memorable. Not something a supporter can tell their grandkids about.

Harsh? Yes. But that's the reality.

That's not harsh, that's you laying excrement over the club's history from the last premiership.

"Neitz wasn't a man of the competition, he was a boy because he didn't win a flag or a Norm Smith."

Can you even fathom how ridiculous that sentiment is?

That's not harsh, that's you laying excrement over the club's history from the last premiership.

"Neitz wasn't a man of the competition, he was a boy because he didn't win a flag or a Norm Smith."

Can you even fathom how ridiculous that sentiment is?

Nieta would swap all his awards and accolades for a Premiership Cup..

Just ask Bob Skilton...which i did many years ago.

Brent did seem a little depressed, but I think he's honest. I suspect playing football (especially at Melb) means much more to him than we realise. While on one hand his conscious mind ordered himself to move on & be positive after winning the B&F then getting dropped from the leadership group, criticised etc., on the other hand his subconscious couldn't help but feel let down & depressed (he's human, I don't blame him). He may have turned the corner now. I think he's a good guy who's worked hard for us.

Nieta would swap all his awards and accolades for a Premiership Cup..

Just ask Bob Skilton...which i did many years ago.

The lure of an elusive premiership I can understand.

The notion of someone automatically being a lesser player than anybody who has won a flag or a Norm Smith is what I have a problem with.

That's not harsh, that's you laying excrement over the club's history from the last premiership.

"Neitz wasn't a man of the competition, he was a boy because he didn't win a flag or a Norm Smith."

Can you even fathom how ridiculous that sentiment is?

You know what I meant DN. You're taking a silly, literal take on what I said with the 'boys' and 'men' angle.

Fact is the achievements of Neitz, White, Yze, Bruce and co are second-tier and don't hold a candle to what the likes of Voss and Hird achieved in the game.

Let's not kid ourselves that we have actually been successful. We haven't.

The lure of an elusive premiership I can understand.

The notion of someone automatically being a lesser player than anybody who has won a flag or a Norm Smith is what I have a problem with.

My comment was made in relation to C&B's throwing up of names like Neitz and Yze with champions of the game like Voss and Hird.

Were the former two "lesser" players than the latter? Of course they were.

I don't understand why you're making such a big fuss about it.

For all those who continue potting Moloney and calling for us to trade him, i'll bet my left nut most of you were also in the Jones is a hack / dead wood / trade bait camp pre-season.

I shake my head at some of the stupidity spewed forth on here sometimes.

The bloke is the reigning B&F winner. He is one of the few blokes over 26 that we have that is any good (albeit in a current form slump). He has 140 games of experience. He has a love of the club. If many of you had your way, we would trade out everyone over 24 and field a team of 18 year olds.

Jamar and Moloney are absolutely required players. They offer far more than purely the onfield stuff. At some point in time some of you will realise this.

But let's not let logic get in the way of the opinions of a few of the Demonland experts.

Continue with the stupidity (sorry for my interruption).

For all those who continue potting Moloney and calling for us to trade him, i'll bet my left nut most of you were also in the Jones is a hack / dead wood / trade bait camp pre-season.

I shake my head at some of the stupidity spewed forth on here sometimes.

The bloke is the reigning B&F winner. He is one of the few blokes over 26 that we have that is any good (albeit in a current form slump). He has 140 games of experience. He has a love of the club. If many of you had your way, we would trade out everyone over 24 and field a team of 18 year olds.

Jamar and Moloney are absolutely required players. They offer far more than purely the onfield stuff. At some point in time some of you will realise this.

But let's not let logic get in the way of the opinions of a few of the Demonland experts.

Continue with the stupidity (sorry for my interruption).

Only an idiot would compare Jones to Moloney from an attitude point of view. They're nothing alike.

Only an idiot would compare Jones to Moloney from an attitude point of view. They're nothing alike.

Well done Chook. You are the case in point.

Where did I make that comparison?

Only an idiot would compare Jones to Moloney from an attitude point of view. They're nothing alike.

Thankyou...i would take Jonesy 10 times before i would take Moloney.

Jones give 100% every game...he may not always win but he never stops giving his all

Can you honestly say the same for Beamer.....nope...last saturday was a good game....before that ...........Essendon 2011 same venue..

Out of interest when did Moloney ever rip into a game outside of the MCG...it's been a long long long time.

How very profound.

Enlighten us on your thoughts- as an armchair critique on the outside looking in- on just how we will be better off if he goes.

Why would I bother?

You won't get it anyway.

"Bleeds red and blue"...is it just me that hates that phrase?

I only bleed red, am I only half a supporter???

I only bleed red, am I only half a supporter???

without oxygen it will turn blue....does that help??

Brent did seem a little depressed, but I think he's honest. I suspect playing football (especially at Melb) means much more to him than we realise. While on one hand his conscious mind ordered himself to move on & be positive after winning the B&F then getting dropped from the leadership group, criticised etc., on the other hand his subconscious couldn't help but feel let down & depressed (he's human, I don't blame him). He may have turned the corner now. I think he's a good guy who's worked hard for us.

Good call i reckon. I was thinking something similar. It was instructive Neeld chose him to sit beside him at the presser following our first win (as opposed to Trenners who has a pretty tough time of it and could have done with a positive). Then Beamer was chosen to do a media call the following day (during which he reiterated that he played a new role and explaining what it was, which sort of discounts my theory Neeld shut him down in the presser).

I may be going out on a limb here but i wonder if this was a bit of a watershed week for Beamer. I loved his presser and his interview, he was emotionally honest in a way that is incredibly rare in footy these days. He acknowledged he had found it hard to be out of the leadership group and to adapt to a new game plan.

He also acknowledged his relationship with Neeld had been tough, but was improving and was now meeting with him regularly.

I wonder if all this was evidence of Beamer turning things around but perhaps more importantly also evidence of Neeld adjusting his approach to managing his players, particularly his senior players. The performance of Beamer, Sylvia and Rivers might be as a result of this.

I also wonder if Neeld has looked at his relationship with the entire list and recalibrated it a touch and perhaps has had a bit of heart to heart with them. There is definitely a much more united vibe coming from the club and much more "we" in Neeldy's talk.

Neeld has said publicly he is open to learning and will take on constructive criticism. Perhaps this is evidence of that as is his preparedness to change tack with Watts in terms of playing him up back and even Garlo up forward and Beamer pushing up.

Again it might be a long bow but this all gives me great confidence in Neeld and where we are currently at as a club. I listened to the audio of McLardy on 3AW and he was terrific, loved his passion and i got a real sense of a united club. Comments from Rivers and Watts reinforce this as does the club's open sessions with supporters. And the passion and concern for the coach from the players after the win was even more evidence.

The club has had all sorts thrown at it and managed it really well i reckon. Cameron Schwab's role in this has been noted by McClardy and Craig. Perhaps there has the been the sort of healing happening that i believe is so necessary for the club to move forward. And if so there is no end of irony in the fact that it has been happening at a time when the club has been pounded by the media who, despite the 24 hour scrutiny and so called analysis may well have been completely oblivious to it - despite the club and players saying how well they have been training and that they are right behind the new direction.

I hate to see what is happening to North but it just reinforces what i have said several times, what happens on field is merely a manifestation of what occurs off field. Only a truly united club (at all levels, from boot studder to CEO) can consistently "come to play" week in week out.

I'd be interested in Hellsgate's perspective on this (ie the current vibe at the club)

Well done Chook. You are the case in point.

Where did I make that comparison?

I wasn't having a go at you. I was saying that there are probably very few people on this site who think Jones and Moloney have similar attitudes. I took exception to what you wrote because I've been both a vocal critic of Moloney and a huge supporter of Jones. Time will tell if I was wrong about Moloney, and I think it already has told with Jones.

Good call i reckon. I was thinking something similar. It was instructive Neeld chose him to sit beside him at the presser following our first win (as opposed to Trenners who has a pretty tough time of it and could have done with a positive). Then Beamer was chosen to do a media call the following day (during which he reiterated that he played a new role and explaining what it was, which sort of discounts my theory Neeld shut him down in the presser).

I may be going out on a limb here but i wonder if this was a bit of a watershed week for Beamer. I loved his presser and his interview, he was emotionally honest in a way that is incredibly rare in footy these days. He acknowledged he had found it hard to be out of the leadership group and to adapt to a new game plan.

He also acknowledged his relationship with Neeld had been tough, but was improving and was now meeting with him regularly.

I wonder if all this was evidence of Beamer turning things around but perhaps more importantly also evidence of Neeld adjusting his approach to managing his players, particularly his senior players. The performance of Beamer, Sylvia and Rivers might be as a result of this.

I also wonder if Neeld has looked at his relationship with the entire list and recalibrated it a touch and perhaps has had a bit of heart to heart with them. There is definitely a much more united vibe coming from the club and much more "we" in Neeldy's talk.

Neeld has said publicly he is open to learning and will take on constructive criticism. Perhaps this is evidence of that as is his preparedness to change tack with Watts in terms of playing him up back and even Garlo up forward and Beamer pushing up.

Again it might be a long bow but this all gives me great confidence in Neeld and where we are currently at as a club. I listened to the audio of McLardy on 3AW and he was terrific, loved his passion and i got a real sense of a united club. Comments from Rivers and Watts reinforce this as does the club's open sessions with supporters. And the passion and concern for the coach from the players after the win was even more evidence.

The club has had all sorts thrown at it and managed it really well i reckon. Cameron Schwab's role in this has been noted by McClardy and Craig. Perhaps there has the been the sort of healing happening that i believe is so necessary for the club to move forward. And if so there is no end of irony in the fact that it has been happening at a time when the club has been pounded by the media who, despite the 24 hour scrutiny and so called analysis may well have been completely oblivious to it - despite the club and players saying how well they have been training and that they are right behind the new direction.

I hate to see what is happening to North but it just reinforces what i have said several times, what happens on field is merely a manifestation of what occurs off field. Only a truly united club (at all levels, from boot studder to CEO) can consistently "come to play" week in week out.

I'd be interested in Hellsgate's perspective on this (ie the current vibe at the club)

“All great changes are preceded by chaos.” -Deepak Chopra

My guess is that Beamer is finally realising this.

without oxygen it will turn blue....does that help??

Glad you could sort that out for us WYL.

This could well be the explanation of the phrase that we are looking for .

Phew.

Any club with a good culture needs genuine buy in and commitment from its senior players.

Sign him up now. And Mark Jamar.

Having met Beamer and Jonesy a number of times through friends they are quite similar. Both ripping blokes that's why i will always stick up for them. Both love the dees but more so Beamer as he grew up barracking for them. His garage full of memorabilia is awesome! Both love the beach and have similar dogs. Would love for supporters to see what the players do behind closed doors and what guys like Moloney have gone through with there injuries etc to show how hard it really is.

Also with regards to the 'shopping around' by the manager, Moloney's has done it one way or would you prefer the Cloke way?