love it how all the doctors of demonland know more about his fitness then the club doctors.

there has been absolutely nothing to say he is injured, no quick comments in the media, nothing from Trengove, nothing from Neeld or any team mates. you really think they would let a player take the flak of bad performance if he was genuinely injured?

People just need to accept that his having a bad year. The kid just runs around tackling all day, with trengove, mckenzie and magner all tackling/tagging its no wonder we get ripped apart in the mid-field. we have no-one playing in front!

We have all listened to Mark Neeld and Dave Misson, if Trengove was injured he would not repeat not be playing, I spoke to Roh Bail who is itching to play, but they won't let him until they are absolutely sure there is no long term affects of the concusstion. It would be absolutely pointless playing Jack now if we were injuring him.

As somebody else has said, he is out of form, plain and simple, but they are getting him to do the in and under work, the rest will come.

love it how all the doctors of demonland know more about his fitness then the club doctors.

there has been absolutely nothing to say he is injured, no quick comments in the media, nothing from Trengove, nothing from Neeld or any team mates. you really think they would let a player take the flak of bad performance if he was genuinely injured?

People just need to accept that his having a bad year. The kid just runs around tackling all day, with trengove, mckenzie and magner all tackling/tagging its no wonder we get ripped apart in the mid-field. we have no-one playing in front!

Exactly.

Neeld has instructed him to play a purely defensive role this season.

Relax. The kid can play and will be more offensive in due course.

He will be a top 5 player for us going forward IMO.

Because if he's not injured ... and neither the club nor the man himself have said he is ... then we look to have picked up no better than a good, ordinary player at pick 2 in the 2009 draft.

I know I'll be shot down over this but for the life of me I can't see what we're supposed to be getting excited about.

I too am worried about young Jack. He is slow in his movements and thinking as well. He is just not the player of 2010 and 20011. Obviously, IF he is injured he shouldn't be playing but he is TOO GOOD a player to be playing as he is at the moment(all season sadly). He is not and never will be a draft pick dud. Remember last season everyone was rating him much higher than Tom $cully? Out of form? No, one doesn't remain out of form all season. Maybe he needs just one good game to remove the self doubts he seems to possess at the present time. Let us hope it all comes together for him very soon. I love his attitude and know that he will show his real ability.

Could it just be that he is struggling more than most with the increased training load? If its not this and he's not injured then he should be dropped because he is severely out of form.

Everything about his lack of acceleration, massive turning circle and poor kicking penetration is screaming OP to me. He's like Luke Ball circa 2007.

It's screaming Morph to me.

Captaincy aside, he's not travelling too badly for a third year player, but I'm seeing less of the "spark" moments I saw last year - but there's no reason to think he won't improve and become the player I already thought he would.

He works hard and can find a bit of the footy, he's definitly low on confidence or injured IMO - but as the team starts clicking I have no doubt he will too.

To those saying he's not as good as Dustin Martin, I wonder how much of that bloke they've watched this season.

Concerning. Why play an injured player if he is injured?

Because it's almost impossible to play an injured player if he's not injured...

Certainly not lighting any fires this year. Can only think there is a niggle and hes just having to work through it. One hopes.

Because it's almost impossible to play an injured player if he's not injured...

Thanks for that wisdom 45. If he is not injured then we have a problem. I am giving injury the benefit of the doubt. Trengove spent yesterday jogging....

He is not and never will be a draft pick dud.

There'd be no argument from anyone if he was picked at No.18 or No.28.

But he was picked at No.2.

I'm looking at other club's recent midfielder pick No.2's and I'm seeing the names Coniglio, H.Bennell and Cotchin. The latter is already a star of the comp and the the first two are already showing their class week-to-week.

When's Jack going to do the same? Is he even capable of doing so?

Elephant in the room.

Thanks for that wisdom 45. If he is not injured then we have a problem. I am giving injury the benefit of the doubt. Trengove spent yesterday jogging....

Thanks for that wisdom 45. If he is not injured then we have a problem. I am giving injury the benefit of the doubt. Trengove spent yesterday jogging....

I reckon he's shape shifting.

Has been really average this year, guys like Bail and Nicholson have, in glimpses, looked far more dangerous than JT.

However, I wrote off Frawley and Garland when they were young and I know now to give players time to get right before sinking the boots in. I believe in him, has all the goods to be one of the best players in the comp. He has stopped marking overhead, which he was always quite good at, and I think this is because he gets to far less packs than he did in the first two years. Has his role changed and he is not handling it well? I don't think they're playing a guy with OP. That doesn't happen in this day and age.

Learning the defensive side of the game.

Will be a great player, there, I said it.

He had groin problems pre-season didn't he? Maybe this is ongoing or maybe he didn't get the miles in his legs pre-season that the others did?

Could it just be that he is struggling more than most with the increased training load? If its not this and he's not injured then he should be dropped because he is severely out of form.

I reckon this is the explanation for his loss of leg speed. As i have said on other threads, i suspect they will ease the load for the second half of the year and if so it will be interesting to see if Trenners improves his run etc.

In fact with the load business i reckon they will have already started easing off as they will want to be cherry for GWS and that would take 2-3 weeks of tapering i guess. I think we have seen the fruit of this already with the essendon win and matching Coll for 3 quarters. Worth noting in this context that until the essendon game we had not won a single second half quarter. Against collingwood we looked the fresher side for much of the second half

Looks like he's done 500 squats and 500 lunges as a warm-up each week. And for all we know, that is what is happening, 2012 being used as a long pre-season to fast-track his development - one step back, 3 forward.

I hope.

I don't agree with the arguement that the club definitely wouldn't play him if he was injured. Clubs play injured players all the time, particularly if they determine that playing won't exacerbate the injury. Ball played with OP when at St Kilda and Judd played with an adductor injury in his last season at WC are two pertinent examples. Furthermore, OP and adductor tendonopathies can take months to years to resolve completely, so it would mean a long time out of footy.

IF he was playing injured, I doubt the club would broadcast this intelligence to the football world. Firstly, it's questionable whether it would release the pressure on Jack for underperforming, more likely it would invite the medical opinion of every armchair expert about whether he should be playing. Secondly, it confirms what the opposition probably suspect and allows them to plan to exploit his weaknesses.

Everything about his lack of acceleration, massive turning circle and poor kicking penetration is screaming OP to me. He's like Luke Ball circa 2007.

I'm also convinced this is the case. Being out of form explains his drop in disposals, although he's top 3 for the team.

It doesn't explain that fact that Brock McLean outran him, or that he can't kick over a jam tin. Form also doesn't explain his lack of leap, when he's one of the best marks at the club (maybe the league) for his size.

I understand that OP management has come a long way since Moloney and Powell (who simply didn't play for a year each). I reckon Misson & co have put in place a plan that allows him to manage the injury without missing games. Jack'll get himself right over the pre-season, and have a full year of executing the Neeld gameplan under his belt.

There'd be no argument from anyone if he was picked at No.18 or No.28.

But he was picked at No.2.

I'm looking at other club's recent midfielder pick No.2's and I'm seeing the names Coniglio, H.Bennell and Cotchin. The latter is already a star of the comp and the the first two are already showing their class week-to-week.

When's Jack going to do the same? Is he even capable of doing so?

Elephant in the room.

Cotchin is playing half a game at the moment, if they put a hard tag on him he falters, last weekend being the example, but he is going to be good, why must we compare? So is Trengove

It doesn't matter where they were picked, the guy who came back from injury and killed us at the weekend was picked at 58.

Everybody needs time to develop, JT has been in a team that has been at the very bottom, give us a couple of years.

The glass is always half empty for some isn't it

Cotchin is playing half a game at the moment, if they put a hard tag on him he falters, last weekend being the example, but he is going to be good, wmy must we compare? So is Trengove

It doesn't matter where they were picked, the guy who came back from injury and killed us at the weekend was picked at 58.

Everybody needs time to develop, JT has been in a team that has been at the very bottom, give us a couple of years.

The glass is always half empty for some isn't it

Half empty, half full. What's the difference?

I'd rather a full glass, thanks.

Lols at you potting Cotchin.

Whether he's carrying a niggle or just out of form, your OP is over the top and an over-reaction RR.

If Trenners is still playing this way for another two seasons then you may have some merrit. Otherwise Trenners showed equal to if not more in his first 2 years in the game as Cotchin, Bennell or Ball did.

And for what it's worth, while not at his best, I reckon his form has improved since the 2nd half against the Blues.

Half empty, half full. What's the difference?

I'd rather a full glass, thanks.

Lols at you potting Cotchin.

I didn't pot Cotchin, I said he only played half a game, have a look at the stats, I also said that he will be an absolute gun, once he learns to deal with being hard tagged, but don't let facts get in the way of you having a pot RR

If Trenners is still playing this way for another two seasons then you may have some merrit. Otherwise Trenners showed equal to if not more in his first 2 years in the game as Cotchin, Bennell or Ball did.

I don't know how you can say this. It's just patently not true. Cotchin actually was injured for a great deal of his first couple of seasons. That was documented. But he still shone through and everyone could still see the quality. Bennel and Coniglio have come in and just gone 'bang'.

What's Jack done to get us similarly excited about in his career to date? It's his third season and he should really be starting to exert an influence. Excite the fans.

But he isn't. Quite the opposite in fact.

It's not over the top. It's just the reality.

I didn't pot Cotchin, I said he only played half a game, have a look at the stats, I also said that he will be an absolute gun, once he learns to deal with being hard tagged, but don't let facts get in the way of you having a pot RR

Last weekend against Freo he 'faltered' did he? 22 kicks, 6 handballs, 6 marks, 3 tackles and a goal.

Here are the facts Satyricon ... http://finalsiren.co...p?PlayerID=1845

Give up dude.

Wow. RR going way overboard again.

So he was a star in the making the last two years but now he is not RR? He is another poor choice?

Spare me RR. He is playing hurt- many AFL players do it every week. I'll bet you the injury is one that won't get any worse by playing but that won't be able to be rectified till the end of the year so they are persisting.

There's nothing like a bit of good old fashioned RR sensationalism.

And disagree with RR at your peril folks, cause he is always right- in his eyes!